28 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

I had never read the novel or the script before the movie, so I was surprised by the early death of Le Chiffre.

I think it was really good, and of course, the film-makers want us to be surprised by the early death. Plus, it made us realise that there was a lot more to the organisation than Le Chiffre, and that he was just a small player in a large organisation.

Also, could it be the earliest death of a "main villain" in a Bond movie?

[MkB]

I'm sure this early death of Le Chiffre in the novel was a challenge for the writers who had to adapt it for the silver screen. Hey, what is it like, a Bond movie where the main Villain dies after the first hour? And not killed by Bond, moreover (which is, I think, another unusual characteristic of this death)! They surely did a good work to make us happy with this

[DaveBond21]

And not killed by Bond, moreover (which is, I think, another unusual characteristic of this death

True, although the main villain is killed by someone other than Bond in Thunderball and FYEO, too.

[sharpshooter]

I wasnt surprised by the death having read the book and expecting the same outcome. It is interesting having Le Chiffre being just a cog in the wheel that risked too much and paid the price for it.

[DaveBond21]

I wasnt surprised by the death having read the book and expecting the same outcome. It is interesting having Le Chiffre being just a cog in the wheel that risked too much and paid the price for it.

I didn't know that the main Bond girl died until a few days before the movie came out and someone on here spoiled it for me.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I had never read the novel or the script before the movie, so I was surprised by the early death of Le Chiffre.

I think it was really good, and of course, the film-makers want us to be surprised by the early death. Plus, it made us realise that there was a lot more to the organisation than Le Chiffre, and that he was just a small player in a large organisation.

Also, could it be the earliest death of a "main villain" in a Bond movie?

Yes. You should read the novel if you liked the film. I gave a copy of the novel to a buddy of mine for his birthday because he loved the film so much he paid to see it twice(a first time for a Bond film for him). It's interesting for both what is similar and what is different. I loved how the sight of Le Chiffre's death replete with the "3rd eye" in his forehead.

I wasnt surprised by the death having read the book and expecting the same outcome. It is interesting having Le Chiffre being just a cog in the wheel that risked too much and paid the price for it.

Me neither. Nor was I surprised by Vesper's being a double agent and her ultimate death. Of course, I had read the novel years ago and reread it 2 nights before I saw the film. Kudos to EON for being as faithful to the novel as they were.

[DaveBond21]

I wouldn't like to know the outcome of a movie before watching it.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I wouldn't like to know the outcome of a movie before watching it.

Well, I'd read it many years ago prior to EON owning the rights to it, so I couldn't avoid that bit. I'd also read OHMSS prior to seeing the film so I knew what was coming. In retrospect, I wish I had seen OHMSS cold knowing nothing about it prior to watching it. It might've been too much of a shock for me.

[Vauxhall]

I wouldn't like to know the outcome of a movie before watching it.

I totally understand this point of view, but I never have the will power to see it through, and I end up cheating!!

[DaveBond21]

I wouldn't like to know the outcome of a movie before watching it.

Well, I'd read it many years ago prior to EON owning the rights to it, so I couldn't avoid that bit. I'd also read OHMSS prior to seeing the film so I knew what was coming. In retrospect, I wish I had seen OHMSS cold knowing nothing about it prior to watching it. It might've been too much of a shock for me.

Yes, I agree, OHMSS was another shock one....

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I wouldn't like to know the outcome of a movie before watching it.

Well, I'd read it many years ago prior to EON owning the rights to it, so I couldn't avoid that bit. I'd also read OHMSS prior to seeing the film so I knew what was coming. In retrospect, I wish I had seen OHMSS cold knowing nothing about it prior to watching it. It might've been too much of a shock for me.

Yes, I agree, OHMSS was another shock one....

So, were you shocked by Vesper's death and betrayal? If anything we learn from CR, OHMSS and even YOLT(remember Aki?) that any woman Bond says "I love you" to you is deadmeat.

[DaveBond21]

So, were you shocked by Vesper's death and betrayal?

No, because with a few days to go, someone spoiled it on here, without a warning like "Spoiler".

But the betrayal was a surprise, yes. As it was meant to be. The whole movie and outcome is supposed to be a surprise and was for most viewers.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

So, were you shocked by Vesper's death and betrayal?

No, because with a few days to go, someone spoiled it on here, without a warning like "Spoiler".

But the betrayal was a surprise, yes. As it was meant to be. The whole movie and outcome is supposed to be a surprise and was for most viewers.

What I was surprised by was by EON's integrity that they included this sad ending with no other girl conveniently waiting in the wings to guarantee the standard "happy ending" (TWINE, anyone?) And kudos to EON for their artistic integrity here.

[sharpshooter]

I wouldn't like to know the outcome of a movie before watching it.

I totally understand this point of view, but I never have the will power to see it through, and I end up cheating!!

When it comes to Bond, I cant help but looking.

[Skudor]

I imagine it would be a surprise to someone who miraculously avoided reading the book. With most Bond films that's not really even a problem - the ending is predictable and formulaic. Hopefully another thing they'll get away from. I love the way the classic Bond films would end with Bond+Girl+M/Q interference (particularly the Moore era) - but times must change.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I imagine it would be a surprise to someone who miraculously avoided reading the book. With most Bond films that's not really even a problem - the ending is predictable and formulaic. Hopefully another thing they'll get away from. I love the way the classic Bond films would end with Bond+Girl+M/Q interference (particularly the Moore era) - but times must change.

Good points. However, I think Bond 22 should have a traditional happy "Bond gets the girl" ending. Otherwise, Craig might start getting the reputation as the Bond who "can't hold a woman" and that would not be good.

[Skudor]

I imagine it would be a surprise to someone who miraculously avoided reading the book. With most Bond films that's not really even a problem - the ending is predictable and formulaic. Hopefully another thing they'll get away from. I love the way the classic Bond films would end with Bond+Girl+M/Q interference (particularly the Moore era) - but times must change.

Good points. However, I think Bond 22 should have a traditional happy "Bond gets the girl" ending. Otherwise, Craig might start getting the reputation as the Bond who "can't hold a woman" and that would not be good.

I think the most important thing in B22 re Bond and women is that any relationship has to be extremely superficial. Sure, let him pull at the end if you really want, but make it a blatant usage pull. Think Roger and Goodnight - just pure Bond using the girl for a bit of fun. That's what I think he would do after Vesper.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I imagine it would be a surprise to someone who miraculously avoided reading the book. With most Bond films that's not really even a problem - the ending is predictable and formulaic. Hopefully another thing they'll get away from. I love the way the classic Bond films would end with Bond+Girl+M/Q interference (particularly the Moore era) - but times must change.

Good points. However, I think Bond 22 should have a traditional happy "Bond gets the girl" ending. Otherwise, Craig might start getting the reputation as the Bond who "can't hold a woman" and that would not be good.

I think the most important thing in B22 re Bond and women is that any relationship has to be extremely superficial. Sure, let him pull at the end if you really want, but make it a blatant usage pull. Think Roger and Goodnight - just pure Bond using the girl for a bit of fun. That's what I think he would do after Vesper.

Exactly. Or like Bond w/Tiffany after Tracy. Just a fling but nothing deep. Craig's tenure will be wrecked if he "falls in love" in every film. It's as bad as "Bond finally meeting a woman who just like Bond in every way and should be called Jane Bond" in every film.

[Skudor]

Unless, of course, we find that Vesper Lynd has a twin sister (played by Eva Green, duh) whom Bond falls for again. Rinse and repeat.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Unless, of course, we find that Vesper Lynd has a twin sister (played by Eva Green, duh) whom Bond falls for again. Rinse and repeat.

In that case, the good news would be for Moonraker fans like myself would be that our beloved 1979 "Bond in outer space" epic would no longer be considered the goofiest film in the series although Die Another Day may have taken that title from it.

[Skudor]

In Bond 23 we'd obviously discover the third sister - the secret triplet that the surprise twin knew nothing about.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

In Bond 23 we'd obviously discover the third sister - the secret triplet that the surprise twin knew nothing about.

Followed by the quadruplet sister in Bond 24, the quintuplet sister in Bond 25, etc. The World is not Enough would no longer be the most soap operatic Bond. If EON did that, even Die Another Day's fiercest critic would be screaming for Tamahori's return as director.

[Skudor]

I was thinking that Tamahori should direct all Bond films from now on.

[DaveBond21]

Most people who watched Casino Royale at the movies, had not read the book. I am pretty sure about that. More than half of CR's audience were non-Bond fanatics. There is always a huge amount of interest in Bond movies and it's not just the fans like us who love them.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I was thinking that Tamahori should direct all Bond films from now on.

Well, as long as it's not Michael Apted. I'll take cartoon sci fi fantasy bond over soap opera Bond anyday.

Most people who watched Casino Royale at the movies, had not read the book. I am pretty sure about that. More than half of CR's audience were non-Bond fanatics. There is always a huge amount of interest in Bond movies and it's not just the fans like us who love them.

When I showed CR to my sister, she didn't think Vesper was a traitor. But she did get confused and thought she was watching OHMSS and thought Bond would marry her and she would die. She's not as big a 007 fan as I am.

[Skudor]

Most people who watched Casino Royale at the movies, had not read the book. I am pretty sure about that. More than half of CR's audience were non-Bond fanatics. There is always a huge amount of interest in Bond movies and it's not just the fans like us who love them.

Very true. The surprise and departure from the norm were no doubt a big part of the film's success.

[Turn]

Most people who watched Casino Royale at the movies, had not read the book. I am pretty sure about that. More than half of CR's audience were non-Bond fanatics. There is always a huge amount of interest in Bond movies and it's not just the fans like us who love them.

Very true. The surprise and departure from the norm were no doubt a big part of the film's success.

Agreed. How nice it was to sit back and not have to tick off every box connected to the Bond movie formula although those of us who have read the book knew it was coming.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Most people who watched Casino Royale at the movies, had not read the book. I am pretty sure about that. More than half of CR's audience were non-Bond fanatics. There is always a huge amount of interest in Bond movies and it's not just the fans like us who love them.

Very true. The surprise and departure from the norm were no doubt a big part of the film's success.

Agreed. How nice it was to sit back and not have to tick off every box connected to the Bond movie formula although those of us who have read the book knew it was coming.

As opposed to Tomorrow Never Dies, which was a sit back and tick off every box connected to the Bond movie formula while it unfolded. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes those stick-to-the-formula films are fun and I quite enjoyed TND on that level. It's probably Brosnan's most satisfying Bond film on the whole but it was also the most formulaic and predictable Bond film made since A View to a Kill.

[LadySylvia]

Actually, Le Chiffre finally died after nearly two hours into the film.

But I wasn't surprised, considering I had read the novel and seen the 1967 film.

Other villains not killed by Bond are:

Rosa Klebb (killed by Tatiana Romanova)

Emile Largo (killed by Domino Duval)

Irma Bunt (I don't know the circumstances of her death)

Aristotle Kristatos (killed by rival Columbo)

General Orlov (killed by Soviet troops)

General Georgi Koskov (either killed or incarcerated by General Pushkin and the KGB)

Le Chiffre (killed by colleague Mr. White)