19 replies to this topic

[jrdoo7]

i have read all of the books. my take on it depends on what book you read. If you read thunderball, goldfinger, mwtgg and i agree that is dalton type bond. If you read moonraker, dr no., or daf that feels like moore type bond. if you read lald,frwl, ohmss, that to me feels more like connery type bond to me. It seems the mood of bond in the books differs from book to book.

[00Twelve]

For me, The literary CR-DAF Bond feels like Craig, with FRWL-TB feeling like Connery, and OHMSS-OP/TLD feeling like Dalton.

[crheath]

For me, Lazenby was the closest. I think that's because almost all of his dialogue was straight from the book in the only movie he was in. Dalton was very close too.

Connery to me was the farthest away. He was smart enough to realize that what worked in the book wouldn't work on the screen.

[tristanjblythe]

Fleming, at first unimpressed with the choice, was so won over by Connery he slightly adapted his Bond to be more like his screen portrayal - hence the half Scottish ancestry. So I guess there is an argument for saying Connery is the most. He certainly displayed the ruthless and intelligent side in my mind. He also seemed to have the style sense (if slightly updated for the early 60s).

Moore was the least like Fleming's in the plots and constant jokiness but I do think there are a few books where it seems like he would be most likely to say the dialogue Fleming used.

However as an overall interpretation of the character it is clear Dalton (one of my favourites) who has taken ALL the aspects of Fleming's Bond and tried to use them (pulled it off too in my opinion). Also think his relationship with M was most like the book - never trying to outsmart his boss (on of Moore's more annoying traits I find!).

Sorry for lack of specific examples but this all from memory as I'm re-reading the Benson novels at the moment! These ones remind of Brosnan - but probably because of their modernity. However I think he had his moments when he was close to Flemings Bond too (esp in GoldenEye and TWINE)

Edited by tristanjblythe, 05 November 2007 - 04:42 PM.

[spynovelfan]

Why not put your feelings to the test? You may be surprised!

Quantum of Fleming

[connery&dalton]

Fleming, at first unimpressed with the choice, was so won over by Connery he slightly adapted his Bond to be more like his screen portrayal

What many fans on the internet do not realize, definitely Fleming purists, is that if Ian Fleming had lived another 20 or 25 years, he may have changed his writing style and adapted his books to be more like Roger Moore's films; maybe he would have put his Bond in space.

I don't think anyone should assume that his novels, style of writing, and original vision would have remained intact. It would have probably become tiresome without any kind of change.

I also don't think anyone should assume he would have disliked the later and lighter pictures of Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan. I have a feeling he would not have been one of those authors who looks down on Hollywood's treatment of their work; Fleming may have been appreciative and honored that people are making films about his hero, whether or not they are OTT like Die Another Day or more realistic and serious like For Your Eyes Only.

About Dalton. I have not read all of Fleming's novels, but he wasn't very close to Fleming's Bond in Licence To Kill. Bond in LTK prefers violence over sex, which is the opposite of Fleming's Bond. The women of LTK have to force Bond to kiss them and sleep with them; he acts like he doesn't like sex and would much rather get into a gun fight. Fleming's Bond took time with the ladies. I like how he took some time with Kara in TLD such as in the carnival ride.

Bond in LTK is nothing more than an action hero for the summer season. He is no different than Arnold, Stallone, Bronson, Norris, and Willis. Licence To Kill has more in common with Death Wish, Pacino's Scarface, and Miami Vice as everyone says than it does with an Ian Fleming novel.

Edited by connery&dalton, 27 November 2007 - 09:26 AM.

[Stephen Spotswood]

Wasn't License to Kill in book form called License Revoked, and written by John Gardner, not Fleming?

[Red Barchetta]

John Gardner did a novelization of LTK, based on the movie. This was not written by Ian Fleming.

Gardner did write 'License Renewed', presumably after 007 had his license revoked by M in LTK.

[LadySylvia]

Bond in LTK prefers violence over sex, which is the opposite of Fleming's Bond.

I pretty much disagree with this statement. I don't think that Bond had preferred violence over sex in LTK. I think that he was simply obssessed in getting revenge for what happened to Felix and Della.

[Single-O-Seven]

Gardner did write the novelisation based on the film script. The script itself contained many elements borrowed from Fleming's work, notably Live and Let Die and the Hildebrand Rarity.

As for Gardner's novel, "Licence Renewed", it was written eight years BEFORE Licence to Kill was filmed, and the two are entirely separate.

[tristanjblythe]

Whilst I agree if Fleming was still writing 007 novels for another 20 years they would have changed and taken a different route. Maybe Bond would have lightened up a la Roger Moore.

But if Fleming had lived I doubt he would have continued with Bond. He'd tried to kill him off numerous times.

When he collapses at the end of FRWL he was supposed to die but Fleming made it open-ended in case he decided to continue (which obviously he did), OHMSS was originally going to have Bond not Tracy shot, YOLT was left so he didn't have to write any more. I think there may have been one or two books and then he really would have drawn the line.

Also if Fleming had kept writing and changed Bond maybe Moore wouldn't have been considered the best option? Who knows!??

I still think that Fleming's Bond is a composite of Connery, Dalton and maybe Craig (with the odd dash of Moore occasionally).

[Blonde Bond]

Blue eyes - Check
Dark hair - Check
Smokes - Check
Harsh looking, yet handsome face - Check
Professional, No Bull's field operative - Check


Yeah, I'd have to say that Dalton's closest to Fleming's and a Gardner's Bond of Books. Pierce was the closest to Benson's Bond, or Benson's Bond imitated the movie Bond.

[jaguar007]

About Dalton. I have not read all of Fleming's novels, but he wasn't very close to Fleming's Bond in Licence To Kill. Bond in LTK prefers violence over sex, which is the opposite of Fleming's Bond. The women of LTK have to force Bond to kiss them and sleep with them; he acts like he doesn't like sex and would much rather get into a gun fight. Fleming's Bond took time with the ladies. I like how he took some time with Kara in TLD such as in the carnival ride.

Bond in LTK is nothing more than an action hero for the summer season. He is no different than Arnold, Stallone, Bronson, Norris, and Willis. Licence To Kill has more in common with Death Wish, Pacino's Scarface, and Miami Vice as everyone says than it does with an Ian Fleming novel.

have you read any of Fleming's novels? Bond in the books definetly was an assigment first kind of agent. Yes, he liked to have sex with women, but he was hard edged and the assigment came first. In fact in CR, he detested the idea of working with a woman in the field. I find the character in LTK very Flemingesque.

As for the most like the books, with the possible exception of Craig (mainly because he had the most Fleming like script), I do think Dalton is most like Bond from the books.

I do have to agree with the earlier poster who said they see Craig like the early books, with Connery closest to the middle books and Dalton with the later novels. I find Moore the least like Fleming's Bond because he was too humorous and did not have that rough exterior like Bond did.

[connery&dalton]

have you read any of Fleming's novels? Bond in the books definetly was an assigment first kind of agent. Yes, he liked to have sex with women, but he was hard edged and the assigment came first. In fact in CR, he detested the idea of working with a woman in the field. I find the character in LTK very Flemingesque.

Bond not wanting to work with a woman in the field meant he did not believe women should be doing a man's work, which was due to Fleming's sexism. Bond shared Fleming's attitudes about women, racial groups, and homosexuals. Furthermore, Fleming's Bond would never have said something to a woman like, "why didn't you ask me first," like Dalton did when Pam kissed him without permission.

There are other differences between Fleming's Bond and Dalton's Bond in Licence To Kill. Fleming's Bond slows down and takes time to contemplate his life and the people he has been exposed to, especially during a meal. Dalton's Bond can barely sit for a second.

Edited by connery&dalton, 27 November 2007 - 11:34 PM.

[jaguar007]

have you read any of Fleming's novels? Bond in the books definetly was an assigment first kind of agent. Yes, he liked to have sex with women, but he was hard edged and the assigment came first. In fact in CR, he detested the idea of working with a woman in the field. I find the character in LTK very Flemingesque.

Bond not wanting to work with a woman in the field meant he did not believe women should be doing a man's work, which was due to Fleming's sexism. Bond shared Fleming's attitudes about women, racial groups, and homosexuals. Furthermore, Fleming's Bond would never have said something to a woman like, "why didn't you ask me first," like Dalton did when Pam kissed him without permission.

There are other differences between Fleming's Bond and Dalton's Bond in Licence To Kill. Fleming's Bond slows down and takes time to contemplate his life and the people he has been exposed to, especially during a meal. Dalton's Bond can barely sit for a second.

I will admit that "why don't you wait until you are asked" is an awful line.

[Turn]

There are other differences between Fleming's Bond and Dalton's Bond in Licence To Kill. Fleming's Bond slows down and takes time to contemplate his life and the people he has been exposed to, especially during a meal. Dalton's Bond can barely sit for a second.

It's a hard thing to do in the timeframe of a 130-minute or so film. A couple of those moments were cut and are in the deleted scenes section of the UE DVD, especially the one where Bond sits in a hotel room drinking and watching Sanchez on television.

I'm not sure I want a Bond film where he sits and contemplates life, save for some of the smaller scenes in CR. That's how it should be opposed to the cringe-worthy moments like the tear on the computer screen in TWINE.

[Colossus]

I think Dalton was too dour, it struck me that the book Bond actually showed more moments of light-heartedness and had a dry humor that could be too subtle for a transition for cinema.
The minds that made the Bonds in the early 60s saw this correctly and knew they had to nail this for the cinema in the only way they could by heightening it with the whimsy, jokes and mannerisms. I think they talk about just this in the TB commentary.

Edited by Colossus, 29 November 2007 - 09:47 PM.

[sharpshooter]

Dalton was definately closest to Fleming's Bond - the world weary agent that has seen it all.

[Beretta]

i have read all of the books. my take on it depends on what book you read. If you read thunderball, goldfinger, mwtgg and i agree that is dalton type bond. If you read moonraker, dr no., or daf that feels like moore type bond. if you read lald,frwl, ohmss, that to me feels more like connery type bond to me. It seems the mood of bond in the books differs from book to book.

And when you read Benson's books it's Pierce. For Gardner, it's more DC.

[jrdoo7]

my whole point was to show that fleming seem to give bond differnet moods in the books. so for me i can't just say this actor or that actor was closest to fleming because it depends on what book you might be reading.

i have read all of the books. my take on it depends on what book you read. If you read thunderball, goldfinger, mwtgg and i agree that is dalton type bond. If you read moonraker, dr no., or daf that feels like moore type bond. if you read lald,frwl, ohmss, that to me feels more like connery type bond to me. It seems the mood of bond in the books differs from book to book.