31 replies to this topic

[Predator_007]

As there has been an awful lot of discussion about LTK over on the Dalton forum, I thought it was time to have a look again at TMWTGG, another much maligned Bond film.

To me it has a lot going for it:

First off is the wonderful way it represents the time at which it was produced. There's a kind of faded grandeur to it. I cite the scenes with Scaramanga and Andrea in the junk, the Queen Elizabeth scenes and the pretitles sequence. Each of these (and to a lesser extent the film as a whole) has an indian summer feel, as of it were going to be the last Bond film (and the producers knew that before starting).

I love Christopher Lee as Scaramanga and the whole premise of the duel is wonderful - I just wish they could have extended it a bit further (I know a lot was cut, I guess for timing reasons). Lee was so calm as Scaramanga ... the lines delivered after he murders Hi Fat were tremendous: "He always like that mauseleum - put him in it".

Nick Nack is also a great henchman, obviously not physically threatening to Bond, but more a thorn in his side - and Herve Villechaise was a fascinating actor.

Maude Adams was a great, but poorly used Bond girl ... which leads me to my one criticism of the film, Bond's slapping of Andrea Anders - slightly over-the-top IMO ...

I think Mary Goodnight was an interesting piece of writing - why shouldn't you have a brainless secret service operative? Wasn't that why she was moved to Hong Kong? And one of the more attractive Bond girls ....

Sheriff JW was an unfortunate addition, but remember that the producers must make every Bond film palatable to its biggest potential market - I'm not saying that was the reason for his inclusion, but how many Bond films have there been without at least one reasonable major speaking part for an American character?

I like the Solex subplot as it is the plot twist that brings Bond and Scaramanga together - and what better subplot at the time the film was made as the western world were in the midst of the oil crisis?

The locations are incredible, possibly only equaled by Moonraker, and moreover they are used well (the Queen Elizabeth scenes, as I have said, are fab).

The soundtrack is wonderfully atmospheric, but I'm not so pleased with the choice of Lulu as the title song's singer.

Not my favourite Bond film, but I like it!

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Predator_007
... which leads me to my one criticism of the film, Bond's slapping of Andrea Anders - slightly over-the-top IMO ...

Moore didn

[scaramanga1]

Out of all Moore's films, I have to say that I think TMWTGG is the one that as a child I found the most intrigueing. I agree with the above comments wholeheartedly, and as an avid fan of fleming's novels as well as the films, I have to say that Scaramanga is an exciting adversary. I've always liked Christopher Lee, and even though his portrayal is more gentlemanly than the novels character, I felt he made what could have been one of the poorest films into one that was and is still, one of the most memorable of the Moore films.

[Sir James]

I think TMWTGG has one of the series best perfomances, and I also think Mr. Moore gives a heartfelt performance as he ususally does. But in spite of that, I really dont think there is anything else going for it. I mean I think Ms. Goodnight is as big a bimbo as u can get, how she became an MI6 agent, God only knows. Nick Nack is uninspired and the whole Solex plot twist what could have been a tense plot had it not been completely spoiled by the predictable beginnig.

[Predator_007]

Originally posted by Sir James
I mean I think Ms. Goodnight is as big a bimbo as u can get, how she became an MI6 agent, God only knows.

Ahhh, I think you're being unfair. After all, MI6 is supposed to be part of the British government. All operatives are in effect civil servants. The whole irony (IMO) is that Goodnight is quite obviously pretty rubbish as an agent, hence her move to Hong Kong as a 'Liaisons officer' to get her out of the way. They didn't want her as a potential liabilty in a more 'sensitive' area.

Anyway, I think Mary Goodnight was completely out-bimboed by Christmas Jones ... nuclear physicist, my a*** (both very attractive though!)

[rafterman]

Goodnight is the biggest bimbo and easily the most useless Bond girl ever....come on, just look at the last sequence, she causes all the destruction from her stupidity...even Bond's annoyed by her
as for the film, I enjoy it, but it has the feel of a quickie film, after all it did come out only a year after LALD...so much feels tired and unispired, especially all the characters getting really angry and annoyed with each other...I'm glad they let Manckieweicz go.....he was taking Bond's missions into a weird territory of minor cases and less of the worldly danger....and the film is just so dated, come on Solex Agitator is the most ridiculous item ever in a Bond film...

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by rafterman
come on Solex Agitator is the most ridiculous item ever in a Bond film...

I've already ranted on at length about the Solex on another post so I won't bore everyone again.
Having a device that makes unlimited electricity for free created too many loose ends .
I would have been happier if it had blown up with Scaramanga's island.
Or was destroyed like the ATAC in FYEO.

[rafterman]

my problem with the use of solar energy in the film is that it is so completely inaccurate and ridiculous....the whole film has a very pro solar energy stance...then look at TWINE and they are still depending on oil....odd...

[Predator_007]

Originally posted by Roebuck
Having a device that makes unlimited electricity for free created too many loose ends.

According to my (often patchy) memory, it wasn't supposed to do that anyway. Think of it as a hyper efficient solar cell ... remember that in 1974 the solar cell was in its infancy. It has been developed a lot since then. Sometimes you have just got to help the scriptwriters out a little in your own mind.

There are many occasions throughout the Bond films where certain aspects have been ... overempasized (eg the small rebreather in Thunderball, virtually everything in Moonraker, the vertical landing ICBM/spacecraft in YOLT etc.). The Solex was a useful (and extremely topical) plot device to link Scaramanga and Bond and produce more depth to the simple Bond vs Scaramanga plot.

[Roebuck]

Originally posted by Predator_007
it wasn't supposed to do that anyway. Think of it as a hyper efficient solar cell

I think that was the intention but, (as Rafterman points out) the capabilities of the device are exaggerated to a degree that tips the film into the realms of science fiction.

Originally posted by Predator_007
... remember that in 1974 the solar cell was in its infancy. It has been developed a lot since then.

We're in the 21st Century now and the Solex remains way beyond our technology. Still, where's the fun if you don't allow the screenwriters a bit of artistic licence? It's not a documentary after all.

[00Kevin]

I always think that movies great! between Nick nack, Maud Adams, JW. Pepper

and of corse, one of my all time favorite actors, Christopher Lee, Lee is great, he's been in like everything, bond, Star Wars, dracula, Lord of the rings, even Young indiana jones chronicals. I think he is an ultimate bon-related charactor, he is a reletive of Ian Flemming, and this, I always love watching TMWTGG.

[Mister Asterix]

I really truly enjoy The Man with the Golden Gun. I have always felt that movies are made or broken by their villains, and--to me anyway--Scarmanga was the last great Bond villain. Don't get me wrong there have been great villains in the series after that (General Koskov, Elektra, both come to mind) but I dont think there has been a great Bond villain. The archetypical Bond villain since 1974 have been pale to really-good, but has never reached the level of Blofeld, Goldfinger, Dr. No, or Fransisco Scaramanga.

Originally posted by Predator_007(edited)
There's a kind of faded grandeur to it. I cite the scenes with Scaramanga and Andrea in the junk, the Queen Elizabeth scenes and the pretitles sequence. Each of these (and to a lesser extent the film as a whole) has an indian summer feel, as of it were going to be the last Bond film (and the producers knew that before starting).

In a way you are right, Predator. This was the last Bond film--for Harry Saltzman anyway. And The Man with the Golden Gun was almost entirely his baby. After completing the film Saltzman sold his rights to the James Bond franchise to MGM. So there was a finality to the film in Harry's eyes.

[ThomasCrown76]

What a final film to go out on, too! I am sure we could argue in this forum about why there was a longer gap between Golden Gun and Spy Who Loved Me. Was it due to the financial disappointment of Golden Gun or was it because of the legal battles? Or was it both? Just to really ratchet things up a notch, you could make the arguement as to why Roger Moore was allowed to do more Bonds after the disappointment of his 2nd film, compared to Dalton hitting the road after only 2 films under similar circumstances.

[1q2w3e4r]

My guess would be he had a three picture contract and after Eon sorted out everything concerning Harry, Cubby knew where he wanted to go with Spy that's why he got Lewis Gilbert back, he wanted a huge scale film like YOLT.

[Colonel Moon]

Why people don't like TMWTGG?

[Colonel Moon]

It's aclassic Bond movie

[ThomasCrown76]

I think people have a problem with the redneck sherrif in Thailand, the car doing the loop-d-loop with the musical kazoo effect, everything about Britt Ickland, and Tattoo being mean like Mini-Me.

[Mr Wint]

TMWTGG is good but far from the best Bond films. My biggest problem with the film is Goodnight and, although it's a rather intriguing story, the script doesn't work. But the location, scenery, music and the villain still makes it memorable.

I've always loved the climax where 007 kills Scaramanga. Here we have real tension with wonderful Barry-music, and Roger Moore looks awesome when he's climbing around in the 'fun house'.

Originally posted by 1q2w3e4r
Cubby knew where he wanted to go with Spy that's why he got Lewis Gilbert back, he wanted a huge scale film like YOLT.

I'm not sure if Cubby really wanted a new YOLT. Cubby first asked Peter Hunt if he would like to come back but he said no and then Cubby went to Gilbert. Perhaps Moore wanted Peter Hunt (they worked together in Gold 1974). Even though I really love TSWLM, it would have been interesting to see Hunt direct a Moore-Bond.

[IrishCrown]

Imagine Roger doing the sped-up fight scenes and really looking mean and nasty. Imagine those fights with Jaws. Imagine if Jaws really was dead at the end of the movie. YES!! I am imagining it!

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by IrishCrown
Imagine Roger doing the sped-up fight scenes and really looking mean and nasty.  Imagine those fights with Jaws.  Imagine if Jaws really was dead at the end of the movie.  YES!!  I am imagining it!

Ooooooo... I like.

[IrishCrown]

Mr. Asterix, I'm glad I could impress you with that last post after annoying the hell out of you guys with my unfortunate spats with the dearly departed Bondpurist. However, I understand he is gone, and I am once again leisurely checking out the boards--no insults, no BS. These boards have become a happier place.

Back on topic, I did not know until now that Peter Hunt was asked to come back for Spy. That would have been my first choice. I also understand Terrence Young would only come back and do a Bond if it were to be the absolute last one.

[Solex Agitator]

THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN is CLASSIC. The scene where Sir Rog slaps MAud Adams about is truly GOLDEN, very Flemingesque. John Barry's "water pistol" music is masterful as well in that scene. THIS IS A DARK FILM. GO TO THE DARK. This is a film about the 1970s and the desperation and exasperation that was that decade. It refelects that era wonderfully. The Solex Agitator and the energy crisis were very topical as story devices and as nightly INTERNATIONAL NEWS. Although TSWLM ( with a HUGE bankroll ) is Moore's best, most entertaining turn as oo7, TMWTGG packs its own dark, MOST FLEMINGESQUE WHALLOP. Forget FYEO as Moore's Fleming moment - TMWTGG is the REAL DEAL. TMWTGG is the ROCK of the Moore Canon. BOW BEFORE IT! NOW!

[Predator_007]

Originally posted by Solex Agitator
John Barry's "water pistol" music is masterful as well in that scene  ...  This is a film about the 1970s and the desperation and exasperation that was that decade.  It refelects that era wonderfully

Couldn't agree more, the Barry score is wonderfully atmospheric (and romantic in a cruel kind of way) for the shower scene. However, I'm still not completely convinced that the shots afterwards could've been filmed better ...

My thoughts are that Bond was desparate - he needed to know where Scaramanga was, because for all he knew, Scaramanga could have been watching him and waiting for the best moment to put a bullet in him. Anders was his only contact with Scaramanga and she was making it difficult for him. Bond had to act there and then to get the information before a) hotel security came (and that would scupper his plans to get close to Anders again) and Scaramanga got him (assuming he was close by - which unknown to Bond he wasn't). IMO the scene just tips the balence. I wish it had been toned down slightly as I think it follows a wonderful sequence of shots ... Lazar's workshop, the casino, the ferry, the 'inverted bedpan' scene (v. funny as I once owned one!) and the entry to Anders suite ("oooohh, I surprise!! Hee, hee, hee").

The whole film is very atmospheric - probably helped greatly by the choice of locations and the score, but Moore plays Bond in a startlingly dark fashion throughout. Sure, there are jokes, but they always seem very heavy-hearted, not the more flipp one-liners in, say, Octopussy. Examples: "Speak now or forever hold your piece", "Really 007" "I admit it's a little kinky", "Certainly puts a new slant on things", "There's a useful four letter word and you're full of it".

Everytime I watch it, I like it a little more ... it hasn't appeared in my top 5 farourites ever, but as each new Bond passes into history, TMWTGG stands out as a particularly interesting film .. and certainly more memorable than some.

[1q2w3e4r]

Originally posted by Mr Wint





I'm not sure if Cubby really wanted a new YOLT. Cubby first asked Peter Hunt if he would like to come back but he said no and then Cubby went to Gilbert. Perhaps Moore wanted Peter Hunt (they worked together in Gold 1974). Even though I really love TSWLM, it would have been interesting to see Hunt direct a Moore-Bond.

Maybe, but I disagree, after TMWTGG Harry was gone and Cubby was incontrol, YOLT was the last huge scale Bond and everything after it wasn't overly successful bar perhaps DAF. By getting Gilbert he insured an over the top "extravagansa". SPY is essentially a remake of YOLT, the plot is essentially the same as is the villian next time you watch it if you think about that in mind, watch them back to back and you'll see what i mean

[Mr Wint]

Some people seem to believe that everything between YOLT and TSWLM was box office failures. Nothing could be more wrong since both DAF and especially LALD took in an awful lot of money. TMWTGG tried to return to a more classic James Bond, with exotic locations and a more intriguing story with lesser action. This type of film has followed every big overly-action-packed-Bondfilm (YOLT, LALD, MR, TND).

I know that SPY is a remake/improvement of YOLT. But I think this concept was used first when Lewis Gilbert came along. Broccoli had many ideas before that.

[rafterman]

I always wondered why Pepper was test driving a car in Thailand...and why, oh why do they use AMC cars in the film? They're so not cool...

[Predator_007]

Originally posted by rafterman
why, oh why do they use AMC cars in the film?  They're so not cool...

I think the Hornet looks much better than Scaramanga's car ... but I'm English and American cars always look 'exotic' to me as very few of them ever get to Europe (generally because of the fuel uneconomy and poor ride handling!)

[DLibrasnow]

I generally feel TMWTGG is one of the weakest of the series -- but its better than LTK.

[ChandlerBing]

Bright spots for the film...
Well, a Bond girl and the love of my life share the same first name....paging Andrea Anders....
Chris Lee is good.
I'd give it ** out of ****

[DLibrasnow]

The shoddy Production Design always spoil it for me.