11 replies to this topic

[Mr Twilight]

I am about to read the whole serie of books in the right order, (and i'm about to start reading No deals, Mr Bond) when a question comes in mind; I believe I read that Gardner wrote the novelization of Licence to kill as a part of the original serie. In that case should it be read before of after Win, lose or die? How about the GoldenEye novelization then? Is it written as a part of the serie or is it a one-off?

[Trident]

The novelizations generally don't claim to fit into the literary canon. An exception would be 'Licence To Kill' by Gardner. Gardner explicitly mentions Leiter's first meeting with a shark and his maiming of leg and arm in 'Live And Let Die', thus making LTK a (ridiculous!) case of ssdd.

Wood's 'Moonraker' novelization briefly mentions a previous medical report on Bond's health, obviously the one in 'Thunderball'. But otherwise I can think of no distinctive links between the tie-inns and the other novels.

Edited by Trident, 11 October 2007 - 09:27 AM.

[tristanjblythe]

The arrival of a female M is hinted at in Cold (or Cold Fall) by Gardner and is obviously used in his GoldenEye novelisation (so it should be read after Cold). This is then carried on by Benson. I also think that Benson hints at his own Zero Minus Ten in his Tomorrow Never Dies novel but I could be wrong as I haven't read that in a while.

I've always considered Gardner and Benson's novelisations to be part of the literary Bond world rather than part of the film world.

In answer to the original question LTK comes before Win, Lose Or Die (I've just checked and M refers to Bond as "Commander" in it).

[Mr Twilight]

Thanks for the answers

[Qwerty]

It's not essential for these two, but nice if you can manage it. I've always thought the Benson novelizations were a bit more "stand alone" compared to his other Bond novels, while the two Gardner ones seem to fit in a little bit more.

All are pretty enjoyable.

[Mr Twilight]

I've always thought the Benson novelizations were a bit more "stand alone" compared to his other Bond novels, while the two Gardner ones seem to fit in a little bit more.

That was actually my next question, Qwerty. The order of Benson novelizations.

[David Schofield]

I've always thought the Benson novelizations were a bit more "stand alone" compared to his other Bond novels, while the two Gardner ones seem to fit in a little bit more.

That was actually my next question, Qwerty. The order of Benson novelizations.

My take is that you include everything if it were authorised to be published in literary form by Glidrose/IFP. This would include all novelisations, Wood, Gardner and Benson included.

This means the Benson novelisations should be read in the order in which they are published with his other novels with the expetion of TWINE which though published immediately after High Time To Kill is preceeded in continuity by Doubleshot, Doubleshot being referenced as having happened shortly after HTTK in the same summer and Bond has not had sex since HTTK which, if Doubleshot is preceeded by TWINE, would exclude Bond's relations with Christmas Jones and Electra!

Just my take, though.

[Qwerty]

If interested, this is the order in terms of publication history:

[box]IAN FLEMING - Casino Royale, Live And Let Die, Moonraker, Diamonds Are Forever, From Russia With Love, Doctor No, Goldfinger, For Your Eyes Only, Thunderball, The Spy Who Loved Me, On Her Majesty

[K1Bond007]

The arrival of a female M is hinted at in Cold (or Cold Fall) by Gardner and is obviously used in his GoldenEye novelisation (so it should be read after Cold). This is then carried on by Benson. I also think that Benson hints at his own Zero Minus Ten in his Tomorrow Never Dies novel but I could be wrong as I haven't read that in a while.

I've always considered Gardner and Benson's novelisations to be part of the literary Bond world rather than part of the film world.

In answer to the original question LTK comes before Win, Lose Or Die (I've just checked and M refers to Bond as "Commander" in it).

I think it all depends. Novelizations are a bit give and take. Tomorrow Never Dies for instance hints at Zero Minus Ten (it mentions Hong Kong and Shamelady), and The Facts of Death I believe has hints of Tomorrow Never Dies (the Walther and there's a brief conversation between Bond and Q IIRC), but Tomorrow Never Dies contradicts some of Benson's precedents like Bond's knowledge of Oriental languages because Benson tries to do his usual middle of the road and bridge the film series with the literary series.

Gardner tried to do the same thing with Licence to Kill. He thought it out and came to a conclusion for the whole shark thing happening to Leiter for a second time, but like Benson, he contradicts the literary series by bringing back Milton Krest who died in The Hildebrand Rarity. The whole Captain/Commander thing is another.

The literary series and the film series are just incompatible. There's really no way to bridge them. They try and I think Benson could have achieved better success by avoiding the Oriental language thing completely in TND, but he didn't. But you know.. if you want to ignore some of the details, you can imagine anything you want. To be fair the literary series contradicts the literary series (Benson carries over some of Gardner's stuff, but contradicts others, Fleming even contradicts Fleming in the details) and the film series at times contradicts the film series (though I can't think of anything off the top of my head, I'm sure others can) so... nothing is perfect with the Bond world. Think what you want.

[David Schofield]

[quote name='K1Bond007' post='782457' date='12 October 2007 - Gardner tried to do the same thing with Licence to Kill. He thought it out and came to a conclusion for the whole shark thing happening to Leiter for a second time, but like Benson, he contradicts the literary series by bringing back Milton Krest who died in The Hildebrand Rarity. The whole Captain/Commander thing is another.

The literary series and the film series are just incompatible. There's really no way to bridge them. They try and I think Benson could have achieved better success by avoiding the Oriental language thing completely in TND, but he didn't. But you know.. if you want to ignore some of the details, you can imagine anything you want. To be fair the literary series contradicts the literary series (Benson carries over some of Gardner's stuff, but contradicts others, Fleming even contradicts Fleming in the details) and the film series at times contradicts the film series (though I can't think of anything off the top of my head, I'm sure others can) so... nothing is perfect with the Bond world. Think what you want.
[/quote]

On the Krest thing, Kevin, it is nowhere suggested that this Milton Krest is the same as the man from the Hidlebrandt Rarity. Milton Krest is not necessarily a unique name. Nor is calling a boat "the Wavercrest". Nor, I suppose, is my name.

Now how one gets round a Hugo Drax having a spaceshuttle program he has invested in in conjunction with government called Moonarker, is a different matter....

[Trident]

Now how one gets round a Hugo Drax having a spaceshuttle program he has invested in in conjunction with government called Moonarker, is a different matter....

Bond himself seems to smell a rat there. He asks himself in Wood's 'Moonraker' on which side Drax may have fought during the war...

After all he's already had some nasty business with a Drax.

[K1Bond007]

On the Krest thing, Kevin, it is nowhere suggested that this Milton Krest is the same as the man from the Hidlebrandt Rarity. Milton Krest is not necessarily a unique name. Nor is calling a boat "the Wavercrest". Nor, I suppose, is my name.

Now how one gets round a Hugo Drax having a spaceshuttle program he has invested in in conjunction with government called Moonarker, is a different matter....

lol, okay. One huge coincidence. If this guys name was Bob Brown or even James Bond then I could agree, but I would say it's a pretty unique name and the Wavekrest just seals the deal. What are the odds that James Bond runs into two guys with the same name, pretty much the same characteristics and both have a ship named the Wavekrest. That's pretty slim.