19 replies to this topic

[RossMan]

Does anyone besides me consider Christopher Wood's Spy Who Loved Me novilzation to be a part of the literary Bond? It's obvious that Wood tried to make it that way, numerous references to Fleming's work, bringing back Nikitin from FRWL, etc. Also, the James Bond described in the book is that of Fleming's, not Roger Moore's.

[Blofeld's Cat]

zencat (30 Nov, 2001 04:36 p.m.):
I decided to accept them as Bond lit when I discovered Jonathan Cape had published hardcover editions uniform with the Fleming books and Colonel Sun, with original dust jacket paintings and really no mention of them being a "movie tie-in." As Cape and Glidrose took them seriously, so do I.

I agree. I have always accepted the novelisations as legit. lit.

I was only trying to make the point that without the movies the novelisations would never have been published, and therefore cannot entirely stand alone as Bond lit. Their origins started in movies, not literature.

As for the additional content in these books, as highlighted by scaramanga and RossMan, we need to understand that the script handed to the novelisation author, invariably, is not the final shooting script. Is is due to the time required to produce the novel in time for the movie's release.

Admittedly, it is the author's prerogative to flower up certain scenes, explain obvious plot flaws, and add scenes to help flesh out characterisation and plot, but that is the nature of this medium and is to be. (A picture may paint a thousand words, but you need more than one word to paint a picture).

But scenes like Wade and Bond touring St. Petersberg, the Eskimo, the ladder rung breaking to kill Trevelyan, and Stamper wanting to stab himself may all have been the script that was handed to the author.

The script may have been changed due to budget and time cutting (the tour and Eskimo), increasing dramatic content(Bond releasing Trevelyan), or for censorship concerns (Stamper's foibles).

These novelisations are Bond lit, but still "movie tie-ins", whether it says so on the cover or not.

[Arrant]

I thought both Woods books were very good indeed.He made an effort to take the Movie Scripts and weave them effectivley into Fleming,s literary world.In my opinion both books fall just a little short of Fleming performing the same act in Thunderball,and he caught flemings "style" very well.
I read a Fleming Bond book most years on holiday and have on occassion replaced them with Wood.
Try as I might (and I do keep trying) I have yet to finish either a Gardner or Benson,Bond novel.

[scaramanga]

Blofeld's Cat (11 Dec, 2001 03:24 p.m.):
Alistair MacLean immediately comes to mind.

Didn't Brosnan 'star' in some of the films of his? There was one in 1994 (can't remember the name - Doomwatch or something) where Brosnan sported a cavilier-like beard and asked a barman for a Vodka Martini, Straight up with a twist. This was probably about the time Brosnan had been announced as the new James Bond.

[Blofeld's Cat]

scaramanga (11 Dec, 2001 07:25 p.m.):

Blofeld's Cat (11 Dec, 2001 03:24 p.m.):
Alistair MacLean immediately comes to mind.

Didn't Brosnan 'star' in some of the films of his? There was one in 1994 (can't remember the name - Doomwatch or something) where Brosnan sported a cavilier-like beard and asked a barman for a Vodka Martini, Straight up with a twist. This was probably about the time Brosnan had been announced as the new James Bond.

Scaramanga, it was called Night Watch, made in 1995. He also played the same character in Death Train, made in 1993.

Both TV movies were based on novels written by Alistair MacNeill (IMDb has got the writing credits wrong in both cases), who wrote about six novels based on MacLean storylines he wrote for a proposed TV series (I think) that never eventuated.

[General Koskov]

Yes! 'JB,TSWLM' (as it would be 'correctly' called) fits in perfectly with Fleming's novels. No conflict with any existing novel, except for the title of course, so I read it as a true novel.
I haven't read Moonraker, but since the Fleming novel was a full story that the novelisation repeated (with the obvious differences) the thing over, I'd say it was off my 'Bond-list'. If only Wood had been able to novelise perhaps 'extensions' on the Octopussy and AVTAK short stories they would have been good books (we could imagine a *young* Bond in AVTAK ).
I've read Gardner and Benson's original novels and they're not as good as Wood's (IMO) because--and Benson *tries* to do this--they aren't written Fleming-style. Also many read like movies and we all know that just doesn't work for novels.

In my perfect world, Wood would be novelising Octopussy, AVTAK, TLD (extensions on the short stories, of course), perhaps LTK, GE, TND, and TWINE.

[Blofeld's Cat]

White Persian (10 Dec, 2001 08:28 a.m.):
I'd place Christopher Wood's "[James Bond,...] the Spy Who Loved Me" in a different category to novelisations by Gardner or Benson of Bond movie scripts, because Wood was "novelising" his *own* script.

I better clarify that I was referring to "novelisations" in general, but you are absolutely correct WP about the Wood books. A fairly unique situation I would think.

It's usually the other way around. There have been many instances of authors scripting their own novels. Alistair MacLean immediately comes to mind.

[RossMan]

I agree completey with White Persian.

[Blofeld's Cat]

scaramanga (17 Dec, 2001 11:29 p.m.):
Thanks for clearing that up for me Blofeld's Cat, much appreciated!

I've always found it prudent to help out anyone with a gun, golden or otherwise.

[scaramanga]

Blofeld's Cat (12 Dec, 2001 02:16 a.m.):

scaramanga (11 Dec, 2001 07:25 p.m.):

Blofeld's Cat (11 Dec, 2001 03:24 p.m.):
Alistair MacLean immediately comes to mind.

Didn't Brosnan 'star' in some of the films of his? There was one in 1994 (can't remember the name - Doomwatch or something) where Brosnan sported a cavilier-like beard and asked a barman for a Vodka Martini, Straight up with a twist. This was probably about the time Brosnan had been announced as the new James Bond.

Scaramanga, it was called Night Watch, made in 1995. He also played the same character in Death Train, made in 1993.

Both TV movies were based on novels written by Alistair MacNeill (IMDb has got the writing credits wrong in both cases), who wrote about six novels based on MacLean storylines he wrote for a proposed TV series (I think) that never eventuated.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Blofeld's Cat, much appreciated!

[RossMan]

Oops, I put an H instead of a W in the Spy Who Loved Me in the topic title.

[White Persian]

I'd place Christopher Wood's "[James Bond,...] the Spy Who Loved Me" in a different category to novelisations by Gardner or Benson of Bond movie scripts, because Wood was "novelising" his *own* script. The distinction between Wood producing a Bond novel based on his own screenplay and Fleming turning the screenplay he wrote with Whittingham and McClory into Thunderball seems minimal, and nobody disputes Thunderball's literary credentials.
To my mind Wood's novel is every bit as good some of the Fleming Canon, and better than most of Gardner's or Benson's output. He made a genuine effort to adhere to the Fleming continuity, and his Bond isn't Roger Moore's Bond, but a decent clone of Fleming's. It's a genuine attempt to continue the saga, and not just a tie-in/souvenir.
I'd have no hesitation admitting it into the Bond lit. canon.

[Blue Eyes]

I have to declare that I haven't read Wood's TSWLM in about 5 years and I no longer own it My over efficient mother gave it to a second hand shop to sell. I could continue with profanities, but I shant !

But I always have considered a part of the literary Bond, and not just a standard film novelisation. But usually the novelistations of the Bond film series are quite good an enjoyable anyway, especially compared to some other film novelisations which are hideous.

Wood made obvious ties with Fleming (I've also noticed that Benson does the same mentioning the plastic surgery on the right hand once or twice, I can't think of the novel though).

[scaramanga]

Blofeld's Cat (18 Dec, 2001 09:14 a.m.):

scaramanga (17 Dec, 2001 11:29 p.m.):
Thanks for clearing that up for me Blofeld's Cat, much appreciated!

I've always found it prudent to help out anyone with a gun, golden or otherwise.

lol

[Mister Asterix]

I don't consider any of the novelisations--Wood's, Garndner's, or Benson's--to be canon. That in no way makes them bad. And it doesn't mean that they don't have ties to the Literary Bond. What it does mean is that if I were to write a bio of the 007 of the books it would not include events of the novelisations. But you know, its all fiction and good fiction is good fiction. It's only important to fans (like us) who want to use the novels' events for reference in an argument and, of course, it's important to Bond's current author.

[freemo]

Yeah, I think its safe to say its not, I mean theres a Moonraker novelisation as well by Wood and theres no way that can be 'canon', but the TSWLM novelisation is pretty good though (IMO ofcourse). I reakon Chris Wood might have made an okay proper Bond author.

From my understanding no original Bond novels make references to novelisations, but don't completely contradict them either (notice how the novels now have the female M), I guess readers can deside for themselves.

Personally I'm not sure wheather to consider the 35 Fleming /Amis /Gardner /Benson original efforts as the proper Bodn literary canon, or just the 14 Fleming novels that have Bond in a realisitic timeline and are all by the creator.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I love novelisations, but they are only remakes of the movie. A "tie-in", as it is stated on the backcover in most instances.

In a Bond timeline the movie and novelisation of Moonraker would occupy the same space, but just be different mediums.

Likewise, if a novelisation of the Goldfinger movie were to be in existence, that would occupy the same space on the timeline as the movie, but further along than the Fleming novel.

By definition, a novelisation is just the movie in book form.

[zencat]

I think Wood's two books, particularly SPY, are very high quality and definitely a cut above the standard novelization. I decided to accept them as Bond lit when I discovered Jonathan Cape had published hardcover editions uniform with the Fleming books and Colonel Sun, with original dust jacket paintings and really no mention of them being a "movie tie-in." As Cape and Glidrose took them seriously, so do I.

[scaramanga]

Blofeld's Cat (30 Nov, 2001 02:53 a.m.):
By definition, a novelisation is just the movie in book form.

I disagree. The novelisations can be very different. Take GoldeEye by John Gardner for example. There are parts in the book that I consider better than the film.
The way Gardner describes the scene at the chemical weapons facility, the way Jack Wade takes him on a tour of St. Petresburg, the eskimo breaking his neck and then how Natalya (having just crawled out of Severnaya alive) is the first to find him and how Bond and Natalya are smuggled out of Russia. These are the things that fill in the gaps in the movie. I prefer the way Trevelyan dies to that in the film. In the novelisation, he is killed when a rungs breaks on the ladder and he falls to his death.
Also, in TWINE by Raymond Benson - RB manages to elaborate on the characters of Renard (Renard the Fox in the novelisation) and Elektra King making them much more 3-D and realistic, for example isn't there a scene where Renard sabotages the scuba gear of the submarine crew so that they can't escape?

[RossMan]

scaramanga (30 Nov, 2001 04:43 p.m.):
These are the things that fill in the gaps in the movie. I prefer the way Trevelyan dies to that in the film. In the novelisation, he is killed when a rungs breaks on the ladder and he falls to his death.
Also, in TWINE by Raymond Benson - RB manages to elaborate on the characters of Renard (Renard the Fox in the novelisation) and Elektra King making them much more 3-D and realistic, for example isn't there a scene where Renard sabotages the scuba gear of the submarine crew so that they can't escape?

I agree with Scaramanga, especially with the comment on the characters, which is the case with Benson's TND. Here, it is explained that Stamper actually enjoys pays, even asks for permission to stab himself, making him even a little creepy. Also, as with most novilizations, it provides interesting backtories to characters.