14 replies to this topic

[00Twelve]

May the mod squad forgive me, I had no clue as to the most appropriate sub-forum. Can this be moved out of 'spoilers'? Thanks!

Judo brought a good point to my attention, and that is that Dench's M has seemingly conformed to the delivery style of the actor playing Bond opposite her. For example:

GE-DAD

Melodramatic Bond = Melodramatic M

CR-???

Hard Bond = Hard M

An interesting parallel. This, of course, is based off the assumption that one can see a discernable difference in Judi's delivery between Broz's time and Craig's (yes, I know what she said in the interview, Davebond ). Also, I wonder where the relationship will go beginning in Bond 22. Will M revert back toward the matriarch with the tough exterior, or will she prove to be a formidable boss who really would sacrifice Bond's life? And after she's done, who will be in the big office? Messervy?

Thoughts?

[Santa]

I like the new, hard- M. Much more realistic that way and miles better than the soppy old cow who got herself kidnapped in TWINE. I don't think she's tough to the extent of sacrificing Bond's life lightly. Not because of her feelings for Bond, although I think she does have a liking for him, but because she didn't get where she is by being reckless and careless. From what I saw in CR she has just enough toughness to get the job done and enough humanity to act as, well, not a mother figure exactly, but as a kind of mentor to men who have the cruel and unusual job of being professional assassins. I think that's as much to do with her personal feelings as it is expediency and I hope that's the way they'll go on.

[VisualStatic]

I don't know where they are going but I'm interested in finding out. As for the difference, I agree. I had made mention of noticing the difference, as that I didn't think the GE M would have walked out of a committee meeting saying Christ I miss the cold war, when she's called Bond a relic of the Cold War.

But that's my 2 cents.

[MkB]

An interesting parallel. This, of course, is based off the assumption that one can see a discernable difference in Judi's delivery between Broz's time and Craig's (yes, I know what she said in the interview, Davebond ). Also, I wonder where the relationship will go beginning in Bond 22. Will M revert back toward the matriarch with the tough exterior, or will she prove to be a formidable boss who really would sacrifice Bond's life? And after she's done, who will be in the big office? Messervy?

Thoughts?

Mmmmh... Well, I would say that M is still "the matriarch with the tough exterior" in CR. A rather cool matriarch at it, I dare say.

Let me think about it for a minute... Let's say I'm head of British SIS. One of my newly promoted agents :
- kills the man he was supposed to capture and question
- makes a slaughter in an embassy
- manages to get filmed and identifies while doing so
- lets me deal with the mess in front of the Parliament or whatever authority
- breaks into my house, where he steals my password
- uses this password to break into the SIS information system with my account

Well, I think I would be seriously upset at him... Upset to the point I could consider tearing off his head with a big battle axe. So in my opinion, Dame Judi Dench's M is still very cooooooool in CR ! :-)

[00Twelve]

Sure, M's still a tough matriarch, but I suppose I unwisely used that term to mean "motherly". In CR, she's the female head, but she doesn't feel like a mother. She feels like a complete professional (who would never allow herself to be kidnapped).

[Santa]

Yes, it's not maternal as in motherly but I think she has enough intelligence to know that 00 agents are not ordinary men and maybe they need special handling. I don't mean therapy kind of special handling but they don't live the lives the rest of us do and I think M knows there are ways of dealing with them. They have more invested in their authority figure than your average bartender or teacher. She's kind of like a pimp!

[MkB]

In CR, she's the female head, but she doesn't feel like a mother. She feels like a complete professional (who would never allow herself to be kidnapped).

I TWINE she wasn't that bad or smooth. Yes, she allowed herself to be kidnapped, but don't forget the other agents in the conference room allowed themselves to be killed! ;-)

[Santa]

In CR, she's the female head, but she doesn't feel like a mother. She feels like a complete professional (who would never allow herself to be kidnapped).

I TWINE she wasn't that bad or smooth. Yes, she allowed herself to be kidnapped, but don't forget the other agents in the conference room allowed themselves to be killed! ;-)

I found her to be sometimes a bit chippy and defensive in the Brosnan era though. Almost as if they were making an issue of her being a woman, saying 'Can she handle it? Oh look! Yes, she can!' whereas CraigM is more confident aa well as competent. As she should be.

[MkB]

I found her to be sometimes a bit chippy and defensive in the Brosnan era though. Almost as if they were making an issue of her being a woman, saying 'Can she handle it? Oh look! Yes, she can!' whereas CraigM is more confident aa well as competent. As she should be.

You certainly got a point there. But one must admit that hiring a female M was a real challenge in the mid-90s. I remember reading an interviewed of Martin Campbell telling that, at the period of GE, he went to a fan meeting, and was roughly criticized for this. Maybe it reflects the way society accepts a female M.

[00Twelve]

Messervy was never so inept, though. I felt most of her scenes in that film weakened her character immensely. We barely got to see anything other than cold professionalism in Messervy, and it worked. And no head of another agency dared to "put his house in order for him." I get that again with CR M. But my original point stands, do you see the pattern of her demeanor as it relates to the Bond she's acting with?

[Santa]

I found her to be sometimes a bit chippy and defensive in the Brosnan era though. Almost as if they were making an issue of her being a woman, saying 'Can she handle it? Oh look! Yes, she can!' whereas CraigM is more confident aa well as competent. As she should be.

You certainly got a point there. But one must admit that hiring a female M was a real challenge in the mid-90s. I remember reading an interviewed of Martin Campbell telling that, at the period of GE, he went to a fan meeting, and was roughly criticized for this. Maybe it reflects the way society accepts a female M.

I would disagree with that. In the 80s, yes, but by the time Bond did it, it was reality. Stella Rimington had been there for ages by then so it was hardly groundbreaking stuff except that they chose to make it so.

[MkB]

I would disagree with that. In the 80s, yes, but by the time Bond did it, it was reality. Stella Rimington had been there for ages by then so it was hardly groundbreaking stuff except that they chose to make it so.

True ! Maybe Bond fans were just a little bit more conservative than the average people, to make such a fuzz about that :-)
But still... I'd say : in the 80s, a female M would have been just science-fiction. In the mid-90s, it reflected a reality at MI5 (Stella Rimington has been head of MI5 from 1992 to 1996, so at the time of GE it was quite new), but I'm sure that women in such positions had to break down a certain resistance (and still have to, in my opinion, even if it's getting more and more easy).

[Santa]

but I'm sure that women in such positions had to break down a certain resistance (and still have to, in my opinion, even if it's getting more and more easy).

Yes, that's true, but often they make an issue out of it too. Anyway, to answer 00Twelve's question , I imagine they'll carry on with Craig style M because it works, whether it was done consciously or not and I have no idea if it was. And that makes me happy.

[Judo chop]

A couple quick thoughts:

[Santa]

Yes.