40 replies to this topic

[JimmyBond]

Just to cover my bases, I'm going to put his here, I know they mention skiing in the threads on the main Bond 22 page, but, well I'm just being safe.

Anyways, I am partly excited about the news of a new ski chase for the next Bond film. But more of me is worried. Why am I worried you ask? TWINE, that's why, what was promised to be an exciting action sequence is really a slow going bore. While it's great to see Brosnan's Bond on skis, it's not much of a sequence really, definately doesnt come close to the work of Willy Bogner in the 60's and 70s.

The only way I'm going to be excited about this is if they hire Bogner to film it.

[Santa]

I'm actually not all that excited about skiing, I've seen it a few too many times before in Bond. I like mountains though and, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I'd like to see them used for an excellent, suspenseful climbing sequence. Still, if it's done well (and that's a big 'if'), then I'll be happy to see it. I think it's a bit too early to be concerned as there don't appear to be any concrete statements, more off the cuff remarks so don't start chewing your nails yet, Jimmy In any case, there have been more good than bad skiing episodes in Bond all told, so don't let the dark side strike you yet.

[dinovelvet]

Yes the TWINE ski chase was dull, but I don't think its a cause for concern this time round, as its (almost) a completely different creative team across the board. I don't know what it is about the TWINE scene that doesn't work, specifically. Its an interesting, innovative idea - Bond chased by swooping parahawks and he's got no weapons to help him, he can only outfox them with his skiing skills, and there are things in it that should be exciting - a huge explosion going off as Bond sails through the air, two parahawks smashing into each other, Bond and Elektra being buried in the snow, yet none of it really amounts to anything.
Hopefully the new gritty Bond era will get back to what its all about - pure skiing, with that unique Bond X factor that makes it interesting!

[sorking]

Yes the TWINE ski chase was dull, but I don't think its a cause for concern this time round, as its (almost) a completely different creative team across the board. I don't know what it is about the TWINE scene that doesn't work, specifically. Its an interesting, innovative idea - Bond chased by swooping parahawks and he's got no weapons to help him, he can only outfox them with his skiing skills, and there are things in it that should be exciting - a huge explosion going off as Bond sails through the air, two parahawks smashing into each other, Bond and Elektra being buried in the snow, yet none of it really amounts to anything.
Hopefully the new gritty Bond era will get back to what its all about - pure skiing, with that unique Bond X factor that makes it interesting!

Can't disagree at all.

The second unit work on TWINE is disappointing, and I assume Apted had some control over their work - at least two sequences use zooms rather than camera moves, which NEVER works, and shows a filmmaker unsure of how to construct an action sequence.

In fact the alternate cut of the Thames boat sequence - a highlight, thanks to Arnold's score - shows just how...hap-hazard the direction was. Loads of coverage, and a million ways to cat up. GE and CR show the difference, with Campbell picking every shot carefully, designing them to be joined in a specific way.

Which is to say - we've not had a solid Bond ski sequence since FYEO. I'd say we're due another. Now it's all up to the new (and interesting) team.

[The Richmond Spy]

Personally, I'm not ready for Bond to get back into the snow yet. If the snow appears as it does in say TND, then I'll be okay with it. Hopefully Craig's Bond will be like Connery's and stick to warm climates throughout his tenure. However, if it is a REALLY good ski-sequence, then I can be persuaded.

[mrsbonds_ppk]

I'm actually not all that excited about skiing, I've seen it a few too many times before in Bond. I like mountains though and, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I'd like to see them used for an excellent, suspenseful climbing sequence. Still, if it's done well (and that's a big 'if'), then I'll be happy to see it. I think it's a bit too early to be concerned as there don't appear to be any concrete statements, more off the cuff remarks so don't start chewing your nails yet, Jimmy In any case, there have been more good than bad skiing episodes in Bond all told, so don't let the dark side strike you yet.

That's not a bad idea santa, but I'm ready for Bond to do some more skiing, why not. I wanna see little Daniel in the snow anyway.

[tim partridge]

Why is Apted getting dragged across the hot coals for the poor ski action in TWINE?

Vic Armstrong very proudly takes credit for all of the live action stunt sequences in the Bonds he has second unit directed. Apted was honest regarding his inexperience with action sequences, and handed those stunts over entirely to Armstrong.

I agree with the original poster that Willy Bogner's absence was the sole reason why TWINE's ski work was extremely below par (not just for Bond but for modern action movies). Check out Bogner's 2001 IMAX film SKI TO THE MAX to see what the sequence should have looked like with a qualified professional.

As much as I LOATHED the disaster that was DIE ANOTHER DAY, and as much as I hated the idea of Bond surfing, at least for all of the real surf action that stuff was OUT of Vic Armstrong's hands. Celebrated surf director/cameraman Don King handled the live action DAD surf unit, and it really showed. That was an assigned specıalıst action sequence in the Bogner mold. Now if only that movie had a better MAIN UNIT director and the spectacular real surf footage would have been stunningly integrated.

At least if they can't get Bogner (and with Forster's proud German/Euro ties that would be surprising) get the guy who does the ski vids for MTV and/or have Bogner consult.

[DLibrasnow]

Just to cover my bases, I'm going to put his here, I know they mention skiing in the threads on the main Bond 22 page, but, well I'm just being safe.

Anyways, I am partly excited about the news of a new ski chase for the next Bond film. But more of me is worried. Why am I worried you ask? TWINE, that's why, what was promised to be an exciting action sequence is really a slow going bore. While it's great to see Brosnan's Bond on skis, it's not much of a sequence really, definately doesnt come close to the work of Willy Bogner in the 60's and 70s.

I agree completely. The skiing stuff in The World is not Enough was one of the major disappointments for me in that movie. It lacked any punch and just came across as dull and lifeless...I am hoping they make up for it with Bond 22.

[coco1997]

I have a feeling the ski chase in the next film will be better than any we've seen committed to a Bond film. I imagine it will give OHMSS a run for its money.

[Ace Roberts]

I have a feeling the ski chase in the next film will be better than any we've seen committed to a Bond film. I imagine it will give OHMSS a run for its money.

I'm in agreement with coco 1997, I think the producers have alredy seen an advance of the action flick of the decade - the Bourne Ultimatum and realize the bar has been set at a new world-class height - I imagine any ski or mountain escape sequence will be top notch.

[dodge]

Of all the things that concern me, a ski chase worries me the least. Eon knows it's been done--in fact, they set the standard in OHMSS. If they didn't have something special mind, I doubt they'd attempt it. Whether it's directed and shot correctly is another matter, for which we'll have to wait and see. But I see a wonderful ace up their sleeves waiting to be played just right.

[Judo chop]

This...

If they didn't have something special mind, I doubt they'd attempt it.

...is what I think.

This is not the group that brought us TWINE. We're in a new era now where we can expect a new level of quality. Embrace it while it lasts, folks.

[MarkA]

Two words why the TWINE ski sequence was dull 'VIC ARMSTRONG'. The master of many a dull action sequence in the last few years. How CASINO ROYALE benefited from his absence.

[dodge]

Here's a great chance for Marc Forster to prove his action chops. But it's a chance that does come with its risks--for the chase in OHMSS is on a par, I believe, with the French Connection's car chase. Certainly, they've thought of that. So...what can he and his crew do that is really is new and exciting?

Joke answers are okay (Craig could be filmed naked, in which case he'd need just one ski pole...and we'd lose our PG rating.) But I'd hope for some serious answers from both fans and experts:

What would you like to see and what would you suggest? A superior stunt strategy? A superior way of shooting?

[blueman]

Remember the little village Bond and Tracy went rooftop-to-rooftop over in OHMSS? Craig needs to go through that little village...on skis...with gunfire accompanying. My 2 cents.

[Agent 76]

Remember the little village Bond and Tracy went rooftop-to-rooftop over in OHMSS? Craig needs to go through that little village...on skis...with gunfire accompanying. My 2 cents.

yes, yes! OHMSS had thrilling action sequences! and combined with the soundtrack, really a magnificient piece of work.

[dodge]

Remember the little village Bond and Tracy went rooftop-to-rooftop over in OHMSS? Craig needs to go through that little village...on skis...with gunfire accompanying. My 2 cents.

Nice. It could also be fun if Bond were escaping with someone...both of them on skis...but somehow tied or shackled together. It would be hard enough keeping perfectly paced with the other. But if they each started running into obstacles---well, wits would be involved as much as acrobatics. Character in action, as Campbell used to say.

[dinovelvet]

Remember the little village Bond and Tracy went rooftop-to-rooftop over in OHMSS? Craig needs to go through that little village...on skis...with gunfire accompanying. My 2 cents.

Nice. It could also be fun if Bond were escaping with someone...both of them on skis...but somehow tied or shackled together. It would be hard enough keeping perfectly paced with the other. But if they each started running into obstacles---well, wits would be involved as much as acrobatics. Character in action, as Campbell used to say.

Yes that sounds like a novel idea. Now I'm going to just throw this idea out there :

Parkour on skis?

I don't know if its feasible or even possible to do any kind of free-running stunts with two planks strapped to your feet, but maybe if you put Marc Forster, Willy Bogner, and Sebastian Foucan together in a room for a brainstorming session, I'm sure they could come up with something interesting!

[blueman]

Like the shackled together idea. If not that then at least have a henchman hanging off of Craig's back for part of it, ala that great little bit in the OHMSS pre-credits. But on skis. Going really fast. And smashing through doors and fences and stuff. Yeah, like that.

I think we've almost got this ski chase nailed down. Anybody still think it sounds boring, or the same old same old?

Edited by blueman, 26 July 2007 - 09:59 PM.

[Agent 76]

I think a ski scene with Bond being chased by some henchmen , something really gritty, punches and kicks, exciting music, good camera shots and photography, and we're bound to get a good one.

[Mr_Wint]

Two words why the TWINE ski sequence was dull 'VIC ARMSTRONG'. The master of many a dull action sequence in the last few years. How CASINO ROYALE benefited from his absence.

Vic Armstrong = bad action...? Is it that simple really??? Armstrong was a 2nd unit director on films like Mission Impossible 3, War of The Worlds and Scorsese hired him for Gangs of New York. The action in the Bondfilms was never as good as in these films! Need I say more?

I think the ski chase in TWINE was rather good but it was a bad idea to have an action scene at that point in the film. Bond just met Elektra, and here we are in the middle of a ski chase... that's bad writing and bad direction from the 1st unit.

[Vauxhall]

I'm not overly excited by it at the moment, but I'm also confident that the writers will have developed a new angle to the concept of a ski chase that will make it fresh. Guess it's a classic wait-and-see situation!

[whitesox]

Two words why the TWINE ski sequence was dull 'VIC ARMSTRONG'. The master of many a dull action sequence in the last few years. How CASINO ROYALE benefited from his absence.

Vic Armstrong = bad action...? Is it that simple really??? Armstrong was a 2nd unit director on films like Mission Impossible 3, War of The Worlds

OMG, NOOOOOOOOO! please, we're talking about GOOD action movies......

[JimmyBond]

I like this brainstorming idea, it's really fun.

How about Bond on skis, being not only chased by other men on skis, but being chased by off road vehicles as well? That'd be tough to evade, and Bond would have to use all his wits to avoid being run over.

[blueman]

Bond on skis, bad guys on snow mobiles...going very fast...through a little village, crashing through doors and fences, gunfire...oh yeah.

Edited by blueman, 27 July 2007 - 03:48 AM.

[dodge]

Gosh, I'm beginning to tingle. Seriously. No tongue in cheek. I was thinking last night: being shackled together, while skiing downhill, would be a bit of a spin. How could we ratchet the tension still more. How are people generally shackled? By the hand or waist, right? What if their necks were shackled?

[DLibrasnow]

I don't think you can solely blame Vic Armstrong for the terrible skiing sequence in The World is not Enough. Certainly he was also responsible for the rather good Thames boat chase also?!

I think it was a failure on a number of levels. Not helped by the fact that Brosnan could not ski.

Still, it's rather scary to hear Michael G. Wilson talk about (on the audio commentary of For Your Eyes Only I think) how they looked at all the previous skiing sequence in the Bond films to see what worked and what didn't when preparing for that year's Bond film (1999's The World is not Enough).

Surely he would have realized that what they had was subpar.

[Pal]

Bond on skis being chased by henchmen as Bond is chasing the villain.

[Agent 76]

why don't they make a chase like this one here:

take a look guys, very cool, just imagine it

chase scene

[tim partridge]

I don't think you can solely blame Vic Armstrong for the terrible skiing sequence in The World is not Enough. Certainly he was also responsible for the rather good Thames boat chase also?!

The Thames chase wasn't a ski sequence.

Didn't Arthur Wooster shoot some of the ski sequence from TWINE too? They just needed a qualified ski sequence director. What was missing from TWINE's ski chase that put it very much behind the other Bond ski action (among other things), was not having any signature Bogner POV shots. Bogner himself use to handle this personally on the other Bond movie ski chases, holding the camera between his legs and skiing. Nobody employed for the production of TWINE thought to bring on anyone to handle this trademark gimmick, now very much a part of Bond movie heritage.

It makes you wonder how the very drive of Bond ski action failed to be identified and then made a part of TWINE. Surely a twenty minute scan through past Bond DVDs would have taught them that? Are they really out of touch with their own franchise? Kind of reminds me of how Michael Wilson claims Christian Wagner was the first American Bond editor (John Holmes), or that LONDON CALLING by The Clash was the first non-original Bond pop song (CALIFORNIA GIRLS- Gidea Park) in the DAD commentary. Very worrying.