116 replies to this topic

[Bondpurist]

Without balls? Crying? When did Dalton cry in a Bond film?

[ChandlerBing]

LTK, after finding the Leiters, his eyes got wetter than they usually are.

[Bondpurist]

He didn't cry !! He just looked very angry.

[ChandlerBing]

He cried. If you're crying now because of your frustration, that's okay. There are people there who can help you.

[Bondpurist]

HE DID NOT CRY. I have watched that sequence many times. He looks shocked, sad and angry but not a tear runs down his cheek.

[IrishCrown]

Back on topic, I like Sean Connery. He's a great sign of talent, masculinity, and energy. When he's on the screen, people go because they like him and they respect him. Most people don't have a clue about Dalton. Oh, he has his followers (I know there are more like you, Bondpurist), but he can't hold a candle to Connery.

[Bondpurist]

Sean Connery does have a good prescence - an unrealistic one for a supposedly anonymous and stealthy spy, but a good one. Dalton has good masculinity too, but he also has a vulnerable side. Connery acts like superman without an achilles heel whereas Dalton is a strong actor but he also seems human and realistic. Connery has overt style and sexual charisma, whereas Dalton is much more subtle. Anyway, this thread is meant to be about Connery - why do you have to keep dragging Dalton into it - why can't we just talk about Connery in this thread??

[14 20 02]

It looks like Dalton is crying at the end of LTK after he killed Sanchez.

[1q2w3e4r]

I disagree with this "secret spy" business. Bond was never a spy in the true sense. He wasn't a deep cover agent, and he wasn't intrusted with important intelligence. He recalls this various times throughout Fleming's novels, particular in FRWL. Bond was and is a blunt government tool that is used simply to attack the people that make enemy agents spy. He doesn't go after the little fish, and doesn't stick with the work of intelligence gather and report writing. In fact it bores the hell out of him.

To say that Connery was supposed to be anonomus and stealthy is rather silly to me. Bond in Fleming's novels was never either of these things except for CR. After that you can bet the opposition always had him pinged. The Robber sniffs him out on the dock with Leiter in LALD straight away. As does Tiffany in DAF and the Spangled Mob. FRWL don't really count... Though the fact that all the heads of the Intelligence units in that country curse themselves for forgetting Bond's name says something in itself about his abillity to be a "stealthy spy".

Bond looks like someone that's dangerous. So does connery and as does Dalton. But Fleming's Bond was never worried about who knew who he was.

In fact, throughout Fleming's novels, Bond's intentions are normally quite clear from the beginning. Which is why in part, M's assignments for Bond and the Double-O section usually involve a threat to the UK Govt or its interests, not a spy ring in West Berlin.

All in all, Connery was a fine Bond. He was the only one Fleming saw, and after seeing him in the role Fleming admitted he was the best guy for the job, even though he didn't really like the films.

[ChandlerBing]

"He's not exactly what I envisiaged when I wrote the books...but he would be if I wrote them all over again." That's what Ian Fleming said about Connery in the role of Bond. Bond was Fleming. Fleming definitely kept a high profile in the clubs when he was doing intelligence work. He slept around, spent a lot of money, drove nice cars...you want to knock the image of Connery as Bond, Bondpurist, fine. Just remember where that image of the high profile womanizer comes from.

[Bondpurist]

He wasn't a deep cover agent

Pardon? Not a deep cover agent? He was always going undercover, posing as someone he's not to infiltrate the enemy. He was always using 'Universal exports' or 'Transworld express' to cover himself up, keep himself out of the spotlight. He may have had his cover blown sometimes but he often kept it for a long time, and I recall a very good quote from IAN FLEMMING himself to back me up - ' I was determined that my secret agent should be anonymous a personality as possible.'
At the end of TMWTGG' Bond refuses the knighthood because he wants to remain an anonymous person, a secret, stealthy spy, not a public figure. Just because Flemming kept a high profile doesn't mean he based Bond around it - he said Bond was based around someone else he knew who may or may not of kept such a high profile. Bond was apy - he was always sent to find out what was happening about so and so, etc. and a lot of his work was investigating and using his powers of stealth and the mind. Bond was created as a spy and was written as a spy - every novel had covers, false identities, spyng, investigation - if he didn't find otu what was going on how could he of stopped it?? It might not account for his whole character - he would come out of his spy's shell when need be but he needed often to be a spy, a secret agent.

[zencat]

Originally posted by 14 20 02
It looks like Dalton is crying at the end of LTK after he killed Sanchez.

Hey, I though Dalton was going to cry when the boat ran out of gas in LTK. Hey, Bond, why are you so uptight? Remember that whole exploding space station situation? You kept your cool then.

Pam was cooler than Bond in that moment.

Sorry, Bondpurist. I like Dalton as you know, but this thread is getting too funny.

[Bondpurist]

Dalton didn't look like he was going to cry!! How do you judge if someone is or isn't about to cry anyway? As for the exploding space station - that was Moore playing Moore's Bond not Flemming's - Flemming's Bond was pretty up tight a lot of the time and Dalton stuck to this as well, thus contibuting to Dalton's reputation as the most Flemingian Bond.

[mrmoon]

Originally posted by Bondpurist
that was Moore playing Moore's Bond not Flemming's -

Hmmm... I wonder why Moore would play Moore's Bond. BP I'm intrigued, seen as you claim to be such a huge Fleming fan, how come you consistently spell his name wrong?

[Bondpurist]

At least I'm consisent, unlike Moore. Because the m key on my computer is a little grimy (don't eat and surf folks!) and rarely writes one m, but more than one m. (It was incredibly difficult to write this post without mispelling something with an m in it.) Moore should play Fleming's Bond with a little of himself, not 0% Fleming 100% Moore

[zencat]

Easy, Bondpurist. Take deep breaths and put on TLD to calm yourself. Think of Dalton listening to Kara play her cello...lovely cello...

[mrmoon]

hmmm...whats that smell.

[Bondpurist]

Kara..Cello..Dalton....that's soothing, very soothing.
What's what smell? What are you talking about? Dalton never cried. He never shed one tear, and saying ' he looked like he was going to' is pretty shabby evidence. T
here goes my calm out of the window. Grrrrrrr!

[Tim007]

Easy, Bondpurist. Take deep breaths and put on TLD to calm yourself. Think of Dalton listening to Kara play her cello...lovely cello...

... and soon you will fall asleep...

[Bondpurist]

I'll never asleep during the fast paced, thrillingly brilliant TLD, pinnacle of TD's career!!

[Tim007]

I think you got something wrong, Bondpurist

[Bondpurist]

No. Looks fine to me.

[1q2w3e4r]

Originally posted by Bondpurist

Pardon? Not a deep cover agent? He was always going undercover, posing as someone he's not to infiltrate the enemy. He was always using 'Universal exports'.....

I recall a very good quote from IAN FLEMMING himself to back me up - ' I was determined that my secret agent should be anonymous a personality as possible.'  

At the end of TMWTGG' Bond refuses the knighthood because he wants to remain an anonymous person, a secret, stealthy spy, not a public figure.  

Just because Flemming kept a high profile doesn't mean he based Bond around it - he said Bond was based around someone else he knew who may or may not of kept such a high profile. Bond was apy - he was always sent to find out what was happening about so and so, etc. anda lot of his work was investigating and using his powers of stealth and the mind.

No not a DEEP COVER agent. Deep cover implies years, and at the very least MONTHS of being on the job, not doing anything. Bond never did that. He wasn't always "under cover" CR. He wasn't undercover, he was controlled through Jamacia, a cover that last's until he checks in at Royale and is bowled out by Mr and Mrs Muntz.

MR. Drax knew him from the beginning.

LALD. He went as himself, travelled as Mr and Mrs Bryce with Solitare after they escape Mr Big.

DAF. Peter Franks, bowled out by Tiffany and the Spangled Mob, Tiffany admits she knew there was something wrong with him.

FRWL: They travel as Mr and Mrs Somerset. Though, they're found out as soon as Tania is on the train.

DN: Went out as himself to check on what happened to Strangways.

GF: Bond spied in this one, he went through Goldfinger's house and got caught by the camera and threw the cat into the machine exposing the film.

FYEO: Too many short stories for off the top of my head.

TB: Nope. not from memory, him and leiter go over Largo's boat though with the Geiger counter and they find the plane.

OHMSS: Hillary Bray, bowled out by Blofeld.

YOLT: Deaf and dumb Japanese fisherman, bowled by Blofeld again.

TMWTGG: Mark Hazzard, Transworld Consortium; though im not sure how much of this to go on, because theres a lot surrounding how much was edited after IF died.

Im not going to go into where he "infultrated the enemy" because he only did this in DAF, OHMSS, and TMWTGG.

Ian Fleming did want an a bland figure, and he created that. But that doesn't back up what your saying. Bond is a private figure in England, he's not anywhere else. Read the opening chapter of LALD. Bond is crossing through customs and see's the officer checking his name "Bond... FBI positive... Hold, then the check with the CIA and the all clear..." He even says that he dislikes his name on any foriegn powers books, even allies but consides that it is. FRWL he claims that "I'd like to get a look at that." When M tells him that Tania fell in love with him looking at his file and as i said before, all the heads of services there know him and his exploits against the Spangled Mob as well.

I disagree that Bond refused a knighthood because he wanted to remain a secret, a stealthy spy as you put it. He's not these things. I agree that he wanted to remain a private person and "not pay more at hotels and resturants." M wouldn't have wanted him to have it anyway, not custom. The CMG he took reluctantly.

Bond is based on Fleming, on what Fleming would have liked to have been caught up in during the war while he was running 30 AU commando through NID. Except he was too valuable and Godfrey wouldn't risk having his AD fall into enemy hands.

Bond doesn't spy much in the novels. Sorry to break it to you. The 00 section isn't concerned primarly with spying. Bond even says in Moonraker that only three times a year an assignment comes along that requires his particular talents, being an ex-commando, an expert knife thrower and pistol shot is bond's talents. Not steaming open envelopes and breaking cyphers.

[Bondpurist]

He still spies and he's still a spy. He didn't go around announcing his identity in Casinos and he had to investigate and spy to find out what was to be done. He did plenty of spying in the books
LALD - He sneaked into the fish storage place and investigated the fish tanks to find out they had the coins in.
Moonraker - Broke into the filing cabinets to find out about the scientists, posed as a security person rather than the spy he was.Drax didn't know his identity as a double o agent from the beginning - merely that he was a friend of M. He found out that the rockets were pointing towards Londond with the help of Brand and then broke in and changed the course of the missile sso that it wouldn't destroy London.
DAF - Posed as Peter Franks fooled Case for quite a while. Managed to fool shady tree and spied on wint and kidd's escapade in the mud bath, and found out all about the mob's illegal activities, e.g dodgy horse racing.
FRWL - Posed as Mr Somerset - the fact his cover was blown was not his fault - the fact Grant knew about Nash, killed him and then met up with the guy Nash was going to because he knew the special code conversation was not because of Bond's incompetence. Was stealthy enough to get away with stealing a spektor right from under the Russians' noses and pose as Grant at the end. Unfortunately Klebb knew about him
DN - Went to Jamaica posing as a universal export's employee on holiday.
GF - Managed to keep himself out of Goldfinger's immediate suspicions when he exposed the film, kept his cover right up to before the saw scene. Then he managed, through the message on the toilet, to alert the Americans of Goldfinger's plans - a spy's handiwork if ever I saw it.
FYEO -
FAVTAK - Investigated the murder and went undercover as a despatch rider.
FYEO - Posed as a hunter when trying to assasinate Gonzales.
QM - Not about Bond.
Risico - Managed to find out that Columbo wasn't the villain of the piece.
HR - Covered up Krest's murder to save Liz.
TB - Bond poses as a an ex-pat trying to buy a house in Nassau - they manage to infiltrate the disco without arousing suspicion. Then he dives and spies on the boat, noting the shape of it and keeping the possibilty that Largo has the bombs open.
OHMSS - Bray - kept his cover to the very end when he escaped on skis.
YOLT - Kept his cover for a long time and managed to sneak into shatterhand's garden and then ntothe castle without being noticed until nearly there.
TMWTGG - Had such a good cover that he managed to get Scaramanga to employ him!!!
He spies as much as he needs to to work out what he's got to do and who he's got to kill. He may not be totally a spy, but he keeps his cover as long as he needs to and spies when he needs to. He's still a member of the secret service and can't make it known to all and sundry who he is all he'd get blown straight away. He may not 'steam over envelopes and break ciphers' but he has to investigate and find out what to do - if he doesn't, it doesn't matter how good a knife thrower, pistol shot or commando he is if he doesn't know who to shoot, who to stab or what to do. In every book he covertly investigates his enemy - if he'd annonced at the top of his voice in Thunderball in the casino who he was, or in any of the films he wouldn't of survived one moment. I'm not saying he's 100% spy but he still has to be careful, clever and cunning to achieve his objectives. Part of his spying role was compromised to make the books more exciting,but he still did some spying and it wouldn't do to make a complete show of yourself.
I except what you're saying but some stealth and secrecy was needed and was achieved.

[1q2w3e4r]

None of what you've mentioned above reflects exactly the definition of a spy. Thats what im saying. A secret service agent most definantly. But not a spy. All that was mentioned above LALD breaking in etc, could be done by a policeman. Thats really what Bond is, a government employed global policeman. He says so in TSWLM!

Posing as someone to look at a house isn't spying.. Its investigation, he investigates definantly, otherwise he'd sit in the office all day smokin morlands specials, or senior service! But he ain't a spy per sa is what im saying. You need to check the dictionary lol! The 00 section isn't involved in typical spying of a secret service. If you think it is, you need to read other books! j/k.

But seriously, governments even the UK (probably all western govts that are "allies") employ people who work in sections exactly like the 00 section. I mean if you've heard of Ecolon then its not really suprising...

And they aren't spy's. They might investigate, put survellance on people etc, but they don't "spy". Most of these come from special forces backgrounds exclusively, Delta Force in the US, the SBS, SAS and Commando and Parachute Regiments in the UK...

[Bondpurist]

Fine. Perhaps he's not a true spy, but someone fitting the role you describe needs stealth and secrecy even if he isn't exactly a real spy.

[1q2w3e4r]

Ya I dont think he's a true "spy" I just think he's a weapon that's issued order's by M to go and beat people down to be honest!.... This has nothing to do with Sean Connery...... Sorry folks.

[Bondpurist]

Connery wasn't stealthy or secret enough for me. He was better telling casinos full of people his name and destroying Q's gadgets than investigating and capturing the essence of Fleming's half spy half action man - he had the action man bit but not the other half.

[ChandlerBing]

Sean Connery was the ideal James Bond. He was the first, he was the best, and people like Woody Allen, David Niven, or Timothy Dalton will always be just a pimple on Sean Connery's ***.

[Bondpurist]

Don't be ridiculous. Without other actors playing Bond it would have never been such a popular series and Connery would never have got the credit he deserved. He was good but that doesn't mean others shouldn't attempt to interprete Bond in their own way - copying Connery would be boring and unoriginal. Dalton was more the healing lotion for the pimple on connery's known as Moore. Can't you celebrate Connery without bringing down Dalton (unsuccessfully)? It shows real narrowness of mind if you can't bring yourself to see past Connery's shadow.