32 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

Ah! I love Judi to bits as M, but has anyone noticed how she always tries to make Bond cry in Casino Royale or personally blame him.

Bond's love has just died, he's cut up and really upset, and here's Judi, sitting at her desk "Ah She had a boyfriend, they were very much in love... The Trails gone cold you'll never find the person who's behind this! Oh and even though you resigned and Vespers dead, get back as soon as you can" If you look at Bond you can even see his eyes watering. I mean come on! Is she deliberatly digging the knife in further, trying to piss him off or does she not know she's doing it. If you look at her when she puts the phone down you can even see her holding her smirk in.

Same with Solange - "Ah she was tortured first, as YOU had already killed her husband she must have been the only one left to question", the audience can see how cut up Bond is and she's standing there just blaming him for Solanges death.

I think that this all started just because Bond prank called her at Miami Airport.

Oh and and lets not even go into her degrading him in her house

Its just so funny! Check it out on the DVD its brilliant - also take note that she Sniffs to identify Solange's cause of death on the same scene mentioned above.

I'm not knocking Casino Royale in any way, its a brilliant film and i just love the relationship between Bond and M. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this and how did you like the strong relationship between the two characters?

Thanks
Matthew

[Jim]

It's tough love.

After all, she's not his mum.

Unless she is.

[The Richmond Spy]

It is quite difficult to convey deep thought over the phone, so I always thought of this as a "Get back to us Bond, we're on your side and always will be." Maybe its just wishful thinking...

[Santa]

I thought she was particularly kind when it came to Vesper, actually, where she points out to Bond that it seems Vesper could have made a deal to save his life at risk to her own. This validates Bond's feelings for Vesper, it's almost as if M's saying he didn't get it all wrong for falling for her, a reassurance he seems to need.

[dodge]

I think M adores bond--Craig's Bond, that is--but dares not express her real feelings: not sexual, but strongly maternal. I also think she was secretly tickled pink when he showed he cared enough to break into her apartment. They have a complex relationship, suggested here for the first time.

[LadySylvia]

Ah! I love Judi to bits as M, but has anyone noticed how she always tries to make Bond cry in Casino Royale or personally blame him.

Bond's love has just died, he's cut up and really upset, and here's Judi, sitting at her desk "Ah She had a boyfriend, they were very much in love... The Trails gone cold you'll never find the person who's behind this! Oh and even though you resigned and Vespers dead, get back as soon as you can" If you look at Bond you can even see his eyes watering. I mean come on! Is she deliberatly digging the knife in further, trying to piss him off or does she not know she's doing it. If you look at her when she puts the phone down you can even see her holding her smirk in.

Same with Solange - "Ah she was tortured first, as YOU had already killed her husband she must have been the only one left to question", the audience can see how cut up Bond is and she's standing there just blaming him for Solanges death.

I think that this all started just because Bond prank called her at Miami Airport.

Oh and and lets not even go into her degrading him in her house

Its just so funny! Check it out on the DVD its brilliant - also take note that she Sniffs to identify Solange's cause of death on the same scene mentioned above.

I'm not knocking Casino Royale in any way, its a brilliant film and i just love the relationship between Bond and M. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this and how did you like the strong relationship between the two characters?

Thanks
Matthew

What?

[tdalton]

I like the relationship between Bond and M in Casino Royale. She's tough on him because she's his boss, but she probably should and could have been a lot tougher on him. I don't expect her to be particularly kind towards Bond, especially in the beginning, when she considers him to be just a "blunt instrument".

M is not meant to be Bond's friend, she's his boss who has witnessed him very seriously mess up an operation and, presumably, damage relations between the British government and whatever country Bond was in at the beginning of the film for him storming into their embassy and virtually destroying the entire thing. Bond messes up several times in the beginning of the film, and she calls him on it in a harsh way, which is probably being too lenient on him when one considers the severity of the things he does at the beginning.

M should have been tough with Bond. He committed an action at the beginning of CR that should have, at the very least, gotten him fired, or even arrested and tried for violation of international law, yet all she did was tell him to go away for a while and reconsider his future. If anything, she should have been tougher.

[stamper]

Two things :

- She either is her mother or surrogate mother (ie she is the one who took care of him when his parents died)

- Or she is the mysterious "benefactor" who sent Bond to the best schools, that he doesn't know about.

In any way, I just love the interaction. Their first meeting is like a mother/son meeting.

[Santa]

I quite like the dynamic they have in CR. I think Dench's M gets Craig's Bond. She knows he has a slightly maverick side, but also that that can be made to work for her. She often has something of a maternal air with him but I could imagine that she does that on purpose, that she knows instinctively how best to deal with him, his strengths and weaknesses and how to make him respond to her. OK he breaks into her apartment and is rather subordinate in the beginning, but goes straight to M for or with information at every stage of the film. Ultimately he trusts her completely, if no-one else and there's a, er, bond there.

[Colossus]

They've turned her into a monster.

[00Twelve]

A credible one.

[Robinson]

I quite like the dynamic they have in CR. I think Dench's M gets Craig's Bond. She knows he has a slightly maverick side, but also that that can be made to work for her. She often has something of a maternal air with him but I could imagine that she does that on purpose, that she knows instinctively how best to deal with him, his strengths and weaknesses and how to make him respond to her. OK he breaks into her apartment and is rather subordinate in the beginning, but goes straight to M for or with information at every stage of the film. Ultimately he trusts her completely, if no-one else and there's a, er, bond there.

COSIGN! The scene in M's apartment surpasses the briefing/dress down between Dench & Brosnan's Bond. After scolding 007 on his actions @ the embassy, M gives Bond, "the facts of life." M has to mother Bond through his first mission, while making casual psychological analysis. The bit about Bond being emotionally detached after Solange's body is found, lingers well after we've moved on to Montenegro.

I'm glad Haggis'll be back for writing duties for 22. His writing certainly elevated CR.

[byline]

Actually, I thought that early on in the film, M was exasperated with Bond . . . and rightfully so. But note her reaction when he's poisoned; that's not the attitude of someone who doesn't care about him. As someone else noted, it's tough love. There are many references to trust in this film, and as she says, she has to know that she can trust him to make the right choices. So she does have something of an adversarial relationship with Bond, but it's a kind of parent/child -- or, maybe more precisely -- mentor/student relationship. She's seen his capabilities, but is frustrated with his flaws . . . and those flaws can be deadly. So she's trying to guide him to make the right decisions. As he says on the beach, as Solange's body is being taken away, she knew he wouldn't let this go. And both of them were right; he didn't let it go because, as M acknowledges, "I knew you were you."

Which brings us full circle to their conversation at the end. I thought that by that point in time, M was being very kind to Bond. She could have let him go on with the misperception that Vesper was a traitor, nothing more, but she explained to Bond what Vesper's motivations were, so that Bond would know that Vesper didn't do these things only for selfish reasons. And M was quite careful to explain that Vesper saved Bond's life in exchange for the money. So that reinforced Bond's understanding of Vesper as a loving, caring person. If he didn't realize it then, he no doubt would have understood it later that Vesper truly did love him, even if she did what she did in an effort to save her boyfriend's life. His memory of their conversation about her not wearing the necklace anymore will come back to him sooner or later, and he'll realize that in all the ways that counted, Vesper was honest with him. M saw to it that Bond had enough information to work that out for himself. I felt that rather than being insensitive, M was actually quite sensitive to Bond's feelings, and took care to lessen his pain. She didn't have to do that, but she did.

I enjoyed the relationship between Dench's M and Craig's Bond. It crackled with wit and energy. I really look forward to their upcoming encounters.

Edited by byline, 12 July 2007 - 01:45 AM.

[Jim]

Two things :

- She either is her mother or surrogate mother (ie she is the one who took care of him when his parents died)

- Or she is the mysterious "benefactor" who sent Bond to the best schools, that he doesn't know about.

Either way, in Craig's third film, Bond finds out that she is the power behind the mystery organisation and has to destroy her - ooh, trauma. "Some acting". Looking forward to that.

(This is utter guesswork, obviously)

[Skudor]

They definitely managed to make the Bond/M relationship a lot more nuanced this time round. I think it's spot on to say that she mothers him a bit, but without being his mother. It's just a way of mentoring him, making his mistakes and their consequences clear to him (e.g. Solange's death).

I don't think she's being cruel in the final phone conversation, quite the opposite in fact. She's reassuring him that Vesper did in fact care and the boyfriend is an important part of the story.

Talking about the boyfriend, I suspect that if he features at all in any of the upcoming films it will be a very minor part. The real continuity will be the organisation.

[RazorBlade]

I always said that M stood for Moneypenny. Does anybody listen to me? No.

[Sigma7]

I didnt like Judi Dench as M, but what how she was in CR, has made me decide that no one else can be in the role

[hugo]

Same with Solange - "Ah she was tortured first, as YOU had already killed her husband she must have been the only one left to question", the audience can see how cut up Bond is and she's standing there just blaming him for Solanges death.
Matthew

Ahh but he needed to be told, she told him in a hard hitting way so that he would think twice about exposing such an innocent next time.

Solange had it coming though, she had no sense of loyalty.

[DaveBond21]

I think she was nice to Bond through most of it.

In DAF, M was really insensitive, if you are of the opinion that it follows on from OHMSS (which I don't). He tells Bond to get on with some proper work!! Bond's wife has just died and M was at the wedding, and now he is being nasty!

Also - M was really angry through most of TMWTGG too...

[byline]

In DAF, M was really insensitive, if you are of the opinion that it follows on from OHMSS (which I don't). He tells Bond to get on with some proper work!! Bond's wife has just died and M was at the wedding, and now he is being nasty!

M wasn't terribly sympathetic with Bond in "Licence to Kill," either. "We're not a country club, 007!"

[Flash1087]

In DAF, M was really insensitive, if you are of the opinion that it follows on from OHMSS (which I don't). He tells Bond to get on with some proper work!! Bond's wife has just died and M was at the wedding, and now he is being nasty!

M wasn't terribly sympathetic with Bond in "Licence to Kill," either. "We're not a country club, 007!"

To be fair, Bond was actually on ANOTHER assignment during Licence to Kill; the space between OHMSS and DAF was probably designated 'personal time' for Bond. During Licence to Kill he's about to begin another mission which he bails on to get revenge for Leiter, which M frowns on.

I mean, Bond's actions were just, but I can see why M would be mad. Besides, he's not paid to be a caring giver.

Edited by Flash1087, 15 July 2007 - 07:38 AM.

[Gri007]

I have also noticed this to Mharkin.

This M played by Judi Dench is a different M in the Brosnan films. She does as you say seem a lot tougher and if not sometimes seems cruel.

With this being faithful to the book, I think the filmakers are only making Judi seem more like M from the book. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Sir Miles Messervy seem cold and tough and untouched through out the Fleming books.

I think Casino Royale goes down the same path as a classic Connery Bond film, and there for Judi Dench's M is very much like Bernard Lee's M. Also with Judi playing M for over 10 years I think she has truley established her self has a fantastic M. So there for she can get away with playing her character in different ways through out the films.

In Bond 22 she may get warmer to Bond and probably have a softer side to her.

The 'Craig Trilogy' I think isn't just about Bond developing but also the other main characters such as M, Moneypenny and Q and Felix Lieter developing aswell.

[DaveBond21]

This M played by Judi Dench is a different M in the Brosnan films

Not according to Judi Dench, who consistently pointed out at all interviews that it was the same person she had been playing.

[tambourineman]

I loved Dench in Goldeneye. She was terrific in that as the hard-as-nails, scotch drinking bitch. I dont know what happened then, but she wasnt the same character in the rest of the Brosnan movies. I despised her characterisation in TWINE. They softened her up too much. But the M of Goldeneye was back in Casino Royale, she was brilliant in that.

[Sbott]

This M played by Judi Dench is a different M in the Brosnan films

Not according to Judi Dench, who consistently pointed out at all interviews that it was the same person she had been playing.

I suppose she may still be playing M but we have the situation where Bond is a new 00 unlike the character in the Brosnan films, therefore her interaction with him an inexperienced 00 would be different.

[LadySylvia]

Solange had it coming though, she had no sense of loyalty.

Why on earth would she be loyal to a jerk like Dimitrios, who treated her like a possession and not a wife?

To be fair, Bond was actually on ANOTHER assignment during Licence to Kill; the space between OHMSS and DAF was probably designated 'personal time' for Bond. During Licence to Kill he's about to begin another mission which he bails on to get revenge for Leiter, which M frowns on.

I mean, Bond's actions were just, but I can see why M would be mad. Besides, he's not paid to be a caring giver.

You make a very good point. In fact, Bond was supposed to be heading toward Turkey to work on a new assignment, when he decided to remain in Key West.

I think Casino Royale goes down the same path as a classic Connery Bond film, and there for Judi Dench's M is very much like Bernard Lee's M.

You can also say the same about Bernard Lee and Robert in the classic Moore Bond films and the classic Dalton Bond films.

Edited by LadySylvia, 16 July 2007 - 04:45 PM.

[Judo chop]

I loved Dench in Goldeneye. She was terrific in that as the hard-as-nails, scotch drinking bitch. I dont know what happened then, but she wasnt the same character in the rest of the Brosnan movies. I despised her characterisation in TWINE. They softened her up too much. But the M of Goldeneye was back in Casino Royale, she was brilliant in that.

I agree. (Except it was Bourbon, not Scotch. )

[byline]

To be fair, Bond was actually on ANOTHER assignment during Licence to Kill; the space between OHMSS and DAF was probably designated 'personal time' for Bond. During Licence to Kill he's about to begin another mission which he bails on to get revenge for Leiter, which M frowns on.

True. I was just responding to the notion that M is "insensitive." To me, M is generally supposed to keep his/her eye on the big picture, and M certainly was in that circumstance. And, for that matter, Dench's M was doing the same in "Casino Royale," too.

Solange had it coming though, she had no sense of loyalty.

Why on earth would she be loyal to a jerk like Dimitrios, who treated her like a possession and not a wife?

Ain't that the truth. It's interesting to note that initially, Solange was quite wary of Bond and tried to keep her distance, but he kept using his charm on her, and she gave in. So, as badly as Dimitrios treated her, she still made an effort to remain loyal; she didn't just fall into Bond's arms (or, at least, not right away, the way so many past Bond women did).

[Flash1087]

Good calls, both of you.

True. I was just responding to the notion that M is "insensitive." To me, M is generally supposed to keep his/her eye on the big picture, and M certainly was in that circumstance. And, for that matter, Dench's M was doing the same in "Casino Royale," too.

True. It could be argued that M is insensitive, but only from a professional standpoint, not from a personal perspective. The various Ms have probably felt bad for Bond's tragedies in private, but knew to not let personal emotions affect overall MI-6 operations. I guess maybe 'insensitive' isn't the word, but 'detached' seems too harsh. 'Buisness minded'?

You make a very good point. In fact, Bond was supposed to be heading toward Turkey to work on a new assignment, when he decided to remain in Key West.

And, with as much as I love LTK, I think we're all the better for Bond NOT going on his actual assignment. It couldn't have been as interesting.

Edited by Flash1087, 17 July 2007 - 08:36 AM.

[DamnCoffee]

She's at it again in Quantum of Solace!

"Vespers Boyfriend!.. The one SHE was trying to save!"

Then she puts a picure of Yusseff and Vesper infront of him.... it looks like it's from her personal photo album.

I mean, you could just imagine loads of different pictures...

M and Vesper, Tanner and Vesper, Villiers and Vesper, M, Slate, Tanner and Vesper, Le Chiffre and Vesper, Solange and Vesper, Solange, Demitrios, M and Vesper... Obanno and Vesper, Gettler, M and Vesper, Mr White and Vesper! Cammile, Greene and Vesper, Jinx, Frost, Graves, Zao, M and Vesper all of which, smiling happily..and none of Bond and her.


Anyway.... I love how the relationship has evolved in Quantum of Solace, I really do love the tension displayed. I really hope this continues with Bond 23.