13 replies to this topic

[DaveBond21]

(Spoilers)

I was thinking about this line the other day. Vesper tells Bond that he has his armour back on. But to me, he has been pretty honest with her from the beginning. I don't think he has his armour on at all.

And in addition, isn't she a little hypocritical? She is the one who has been two-faced. And she's criticising him for not being himself!

What do you think? I sometimes think Purvis & Wade put lines in their scripts that they just like the sound of, rather than actually meaning much or neccessary to the plot.

[byline]

(Spoilers)

I was thinking about this line the other day. Vesper tells Bond that he has his armour back on. But to me, he has been pretty honest with her from the beginning. I don't think he has his armour on at all.

And in addition, isn't she a little hypocritical? She is the one who has been two-faced. And she's criticising him for not being himself!

What do you think? I sometimes think Purvis & Wade put lines in their scripts that they just like the sound of, rather than actually meaning much or neccessary to the plot.

I don't think Vesper is being hypocritical so much as she's genuinely puzzled by him. She had him pegged as this egotistical jerk . . . I think partly because it's far easier to betray someone you despise than someone you like. But, then, Bond kept showing her a side of himself that she didn't expect, and it threw her. So I really think she felt he was still hiding behind a facade, when in reality he was being honest with her. But I don't think she truly believed him till on the beach, when he told her he loved her and was going to retire for her.

Of course, all along she was playing a role, and I think that until she realized the depth of his feelings for her, she was intent on sticking with it. But she was constantly having to improvise because the Bond she thought she knew was not who he really was. IMO, that's why she said these things; she was still trying to figure him out. But in the process of trying to figure him out, she came to understand him more than she'd anticipated. Despite her best efforts (or, maybe, because of them), she fell for the man, not his image. And, in the end, she could finally be completely honest with him: "I'm sorry, James." And the eyes that said so much more than her words.

[DaveBond21]

Fair point.

[Mamadou]

I just thought it was her reaction to his remark after she said, "If all that was left of you was your smile and your little finger..." Because Bond's response can be construed as evasive, like his defences are up--here, against complicated feelings (I guess). Hence, "you've got your armor back on." But it turned out not to be the case.

Edited by Mamadou, 05 June 2007 - 01:05 AM.

[LadySylvia]

I just thought it was her reaction to his remark after she said, "If all that was left of you was your smile and your little finger..." Because Bond's response can be construed as evasive, like his defences are up--here, against complicated feelings (I guess). Hence, "you've got your armor back on." But it turned out not to be the case.

After Vesper made her "your smile and your little finger" remark, for a flickering moment, Bond seemed taken aback by her words and her emotion. I think he tried to cover this up with his "You know what I can do with my little finger" joke. But it didn't work and Vesper responded with her "You've got your armour back on" comment.


When did Vesper fall in love with Bond? I have no idea. But I never believed that she had deliberately romanced him, following his recovery. There was no need for her to do so. Herr Mendel had come by before Bond could leave the nursing home, giving Vesper the chance to transfer the money to that bank in Venice. All she had to do was bid Bond good-bye and good luck and announce that she was returning to London. Why spend all that time with him if she wasn't in love with him?

[DavidSomerset]

..... All she had to do was bid Bond good-bye and good luck and announce that she was returning to London. Why spend all that time with him if she wasn't in love with him?

There is no one, REPEAT no one who ditches Bond and goes away. The book Bond gets ditched by Gala but not the film one. If he can show the importance of a roll in the hay to lesbians in the past, a double agent is no big deal.

[byline]

When did Vesper fall in love with Bond? I have no idea. But I never believed that she had deliberately romanced him, following his recovery. There was no need for her to do so. Herr Mendel had come by before Bond could leave the nursing home, giving Vesper the chance to transfer the money to that bank in Venice. All she had to do was bid Bond good-bye and good luck and announce that she was returning to London. Why spend all that time with him if she wasn't in love with him?

I think she was very much in love with him by that point, but I also think she hoped to eventually lead him to Mr. White and his organization . . . which, in the end, she did. I'm not sure that she'd formulated a plan yet. After all, her suicide was pretty much taking advantage of an opportunity that presented itself, not something she could have planned out ahead of time. But I do think she was trying to find some way to make her betrayal "right" with Bond, somehow, by enabling him to catch Mr. White and hopefully retrieve the government's money, as well as getting access to "the big picture" of his organization.

When Bond made his "little finger" joke, Vesper was on the verge of cracking, no doubt because of all the strain she was under. And I think the fact that Bond had used her name for the password, which she felt she should've been able to figure out, was too much for her. Had she known that from the get-go, how much violence could have been avoided? Not to mention the fact that perhaps at that point, she realized that even then, when he first came up with the password, Bond was falling for her. The realization that she's already succeeded, to some degree, so early on, and the guilt that produced, may have been overwhelming for Vesper. And then, of course, there were Vesper's own feelings for Bond that complicated things for her almost beyond comprehension. Bond didn't realize what was going on with her, so he tried to lighten the moment. Of course, these are things that will come back to him later on, and he'll be contemplating their relationship for the rest of his life. Hopefully with less anger than the book Bond, but the anger will undoubtedly be there. But I think that's why the writers chose to make Vesper a more sympathetic character. About all I felt for the book Vesper was a sense of relief that she was finally gone. I don't think that would have translated well to this particular film.

Edited by byline, 07 June 2007 - 04:12 PM.

[LadySylvia]

Hopefully with less anger than the book Bond, but the anger will undoubtedly be there.

The ironic thing about the literary Bond is that following Vesper's death, he spent the next ten years visiting her grave to place flowers on them . . . until he met Tracy in the same town where he first met Vesper.

[DaveBond21]

Yes, I agree with these comments.

It's an interesting moment when he tells her the password and it's Vesper. Her expression is perfect and then she gets really upset at how much better Bond is compared to the other men in her life.

[Germanlady]

Since I have always been wondering, why she was so taken aback because of the Vesper password, I like to thank you for enlightening me. It makes perfect sense the way you all put it.

[RazorBlade]

An alternate explanation is that she is projecting her own ability to hide her agenda onto Bond. She uses this defense mechanism because she does love Bond by now and that she has not been honest with him, and started out with the knowledge that he would be killed during this operation. It is all too painful to bear.

Not much of a diviation from the main interpretation but I like looking smart.

[Santa]

Edited due to being mean...

[Keir]

Given the fact that he showed his vulnerability after she rejected his plea for the buy in, and showed his soft side when getting his suit ruined while sitting in the shower, the words are a bit odd. Especially in the context of the book when he asks her why she never said anything to him in the car after he'd been captured chasing after her.

[byline]

Given the fact that he showed his vulnerability after she rejected his plea for the buy in, and showed his soft side when getting his suit ruined while sitting in the shower, the words are a bit odd. Especially in the context of the book when he asks her why she never said anything to him in the car after he'd been captured chasing after her.

Yes, but in the film version, we're still not quite sure if Vesper was working for Le Chiffre or Mr. White. It could have been that she was kidnapped by Le Chiffre, unaware that Vesper was working for Mr. White. So, in that context, she would have truly feared for her life, while the book Vesper was simply playing along in the plot to kidnap Bond. She really was evasive and duplicitous all the way through.

I still think that the reason the film Vesper says this is because she is genuinely puzzled by Bond. She thinks he's putting up a front with his humor, when in reality he was just trying to lighten the mood for her. He didn't understand what was going on with her, so he was probably as baffled by her emotional outburst as we were. But she would've been trying to stay two steps ahead, so she may have been trying to feel him out to see if he did suspect her at all, or if his affection for her was genuine and guileless. All of this was tangled up in her own growing feelings of affection for him.