37 replies to this topic

[Bondpurist]

Here's a link to a great article which defends Dalton's stint as 007. Read it and tell us what you think about it.
The link is: http://www.hmss.com/films/dalton/

[IrishCrown]

I'd almost bet you're the guy who wrote the article, aren't you?

[Bondpurist]

No. Many people have the same opinion as me about Dalton, and this guy is just one of them.

[IrishCrown]

And many people like me have the same opinion as Dalton, what are you going to do, shout at all of us and tell us what idiots we are? We're entitled to our opinions the same way you are. I have no trouble with someone who likes Dalton. I have trouble with people who go out of their way and can't stand someone else who disagrees with them and then can't back it up.

[Blue Eyes]

Oh God IrishCrown, must you try and wind him up on purpose? I mean, you've both been here for a very short time, and look at your post counts Talk about winding up

Please, agree to disagree and let it be.

[Byron]

I really wish Dalton had stayed on as 007 in a parallel Bond series (even a McClory one).

This would mean casual fans, eg IrishCrown, that enjoy Bond-lite can stick with the current series but for the Fleming/Plot/Character driven fans a Dalton Bond series would be a refreshing alternative.

And by the way Dalton will always be more popular than Brosie in the UK (spiritual home of Bond), which is what counts.

[Bondpurist]

Irishcrown keeps ranting on about how I diagree intentionally and can't stand it because people have different opinions but he's the worst one. Whenever I disagree with him he starts trying to discredit and insult me, and accuses me of what he does to shift the suspicion off himself. He's just as bad as me and I really wish he'd shut up about it. As for me not backing up my arguments, he must be joking - I provide as much evidence and analyse everything as closely as I can. He just can't stand that I disagree with him.
Anyway, I agree very much with Byron. Dalton is not for casual fans of Bond who want an invincible, light hearted superhero who is unrealistic and not particularly serious - he is for fans of an artistically impressive Bond, a serious, Flemingian Bond. Irishcrown is from the USA and presumably American. He hasn't been exposed to Dalton as much as us Brits have, and Dalton is much more popular here than over the pond. Bond is British and was invented for the British market, not the American one and Dalton thus appeals to the home of Bond and not the USA, which is what really matters.

[IrishCrown]

Well, here is some "ranting" for you...

Thank you for clearing that up for me being a casual fan. I don't live or breathe Bond, so if the alternative to being obsessive is casual, so be it. Yes, I am an American. You're English, I'm not drawing attention to that. My problem with you is that you go out of your way to claim you are right and so many others are wrong, and you are so very adamant about that. You find one person who shows the tiniest notion of disagreeing with you, and you're on him like a rabid pack of wolves. You're leaving yourself open to these things, and you really need to take it down several notches. Thank you. End of "rant."

[Bondpurist]

Well, you're exactly the same with people who disagree with you. I only answer to those who criticise Dalton. I am adamant that I am right and am not in the least ashamed of it. I didn't mean to draw attention to you being American - I have no problems with that. I go out of my way to claim I am right and others are wrong because I think I am right and SOME others are wrong, and I feel strongly about the Dalton issue in particular. I am not saying that being a casual fan is bad, but I am saying that one with such an attitude is unlikely to agree with people like me and Byron. That is all.

[IrishCrown]

I'm the same with you because I'm giving you the same thing you throw in the direction of people like me. It doesn't feel too nice, does it? I like Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery's Bonds, but I'm not going out of my way in the world to brutalize people who don't like them. I defend them with a detached sense of amusement. You defend Timothy Dalton as if someone had just said something bad about your own father. When I kept typing asking if Dalton was a blood relative, I wasn't joking.

[Bondpurist]

Well, I take things seriously. If you want to be more laid back about it then good for you but I cannot do so. And will not do so.

[IrishCrown]

Why can't you be more laid back about Dalton? Why are you so worked up about Bond? Why not devote this much passion to something that could change the world for the better? No offense, but going on the Net and trying to convert people one by one that Dalton is the coolest thing since microwave pizza isn't going to work, and it's not that meaningful.

[Bondpurist]

Coverting people to be Dalton fans would change the world for the better (!!)
Look, the summer holidays are long and I have nothing better to do.

[IrishCrown]

Why don't you go to Jamaica? There's a nice piece of property you could go visit down there and you could do some of your best writing.

[Bondpurist]

I might be tempted to go on overly long and tedious descriptions of the Jamaican wildlife instead of keeping the fast moving and excellent plot going though!

[IrishCrown]

Oh my Goodness, are you griping about Fleming's writing style? Many critics do tend to call Fleming's book travelogues.

[Bondpurist]

When Fleming kept on plot and on subject he was a brilliant writer, but essays on Jamaican marine biology were not needed, especially in Dr No and LALD.

[IrishCrown]

I almost feel sorry for the screenwriters who went back and adapted some of the books. I said almost....what Christopher Wood to Moonraker was beyond shame. Yes, let's jump on the Star Wars bandwagon, who wants to see an outdated plot about Nazis aiming a rocket at London? I would have loved to have seen it, but Moore or less not with Roger.

[Bondpurist]

Definately, but this discussion isn't really for a thread entitled 'Article about Dalton.' I suggest a thread in the part about Fleming.

[IrishCrown]

Too bad because it was actually starting to become quite civil and polite.

[Bondpurist]

Well, I'll start a new thread in the Fleming bit called 'Fleming's novels likeness to the films' where we can discuss it.

[IrishCrown]

That sounds good to me. I'm going to be getting off of here in a bit for the rest of the day, so you're on your own until Monday.

[Bondpurist]

I've made that thread. Check it out in the Ian Fleming section.

[zencat]

The Timothy Dalton era was very interesting and I'm on the side of both IrishCrown and Bondpurist. On one hand, I do think Dalton was a success in capturing Fleming's Bond and giving us two very interesting films that enrich the series. On the other hand, I don't really want Fleming's Bond on screen. Like the general audience, I go to a Bond movie to see the "movie Bond," the ultra cool witty secret agent superman. In this regard, Dalton was a failure and I'm happy he didn't continue. The books are the books and the movies are the movies and the two do not need to meet, in my opinion.

And besides, the whole

[zencat]

Originally posted by Bondpurist
When Fleming kept on plot and on subject he was a brilliant writer, but essays on Jamaican marine biology were not needed, especially in Dr No and LALD.

This, however, I cannot agree with. The Hiderbrand Rarity is my favorite Bond short story because of Fleming's amazing descriptions of undersea life (and their death). I love it when Fleming (and Benson) goes off on long riffs of detail. This to me is what a Bond novel is all about.

[Bondpurist]

I think the films should strive to be as close as possible to Fleming's novels, and that's why I like Dalton. However, I can see that most people want the 'ultra cool witty secret agent superman', as Zencat puts it, and can see why, for reasons of escapism and fantasy. I like to take the arts seriously, however, and Fleming's books much closer fit my idea of entertainment, and hence films close to the books would do also.

[zencat]

I made this point over in the Fleming section, but I'll repost it here because I agree with you, Bondpurist, about wanting to see faithful adaptations of Fleming -- but I think the venue for this is TV. I think Eon should, even while the films series is going on, produce faithful period adaptations of the novels on the BBC with someone like Clive Owen in the part of Bond. I could see this being very high quality, much in the style of the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series.

[Bondpurist]

Yes, that may be an interesting idea, but would Eon give the go ahead? Clive Owen should play Bond in the actual films in my opinion, but someone similar to him would be very suitable.

[zencat]

Unfortunately, Eon would never go for this idea for the same reason they won

[Bondpurist]

That's a brilliant, brilliant idea. Timothy isn't that old, about the age of Bond in Gardner's novels, and as he made a realistic Bond in the films - realism being the order of the day in such a series- he would be quite fantastic if he's half as good as he was in TLD/ LTK.