16 replies to this topic

[Milovy]

My roommate and I have been catching up with Timothy Dalton films that we haven't seen yet and we just rented this. Unfortunately it appears to be the edited version that aired on US TV, not the full four-hour BBC miniseries. But I thought it worth having a topic about because it was done in 1992 around the time he SHOULD have been doing a third Bond film. (Although his character, Eddie Myers, is like a James Bond from hell...)

Wow, this is quite a sensational performance from him and I would imagine pretty demanding. I have seen good, not so good, and great performances from Dalton, and this is definitely one of the very best. However I feel like I missed quite a lot of the plot since it was virtually cut in half! (For example, was his character supposed to be gay? Or just pretending to be gay/bi in order to throw off the young cop assigned to him? Or was it deliberately meant to be ambiguous?)

I watch this and not only am I pissed that you can't see the full length version in America (unless you have a region free DVD), BUT that they remade it into a crappy Americanized version (with Rob Lowe! yuck!) and probably few people have seen this fantastic performance (not to mention twisty, suspenseful film).

In any case, if you enjoyed LTK and are hungering for a third Bond film that would have taken his darker, grittier conception of a spy further, I definitely recommend this one, even the chopped up version.

Any comments?

Edited by Milovy, 12 May 2007 - 08:30 PM.

[Lady Rose]

(For example, was his character supposed to be gay? Or just pretending to be gay/bi in order to throw off the young cop assigned to him? Or was it deliberately meant to be ambiguous?)

It is a long time since I've seen this but I never got the impression that Myers is gay/bi, especially as he has the lovely Penelope Cruz to go home to and was entertaining himself with the nurse in the hospital in the meantime! He does 'seduce' the cop but only to get him on side. Myers is a manipulator and uses every trick he knows.

It is shame that you have only seen the shortened version. I totally enjoyed the full version and it never felt too long.

There are great performances from all involved especially David Morrison and timothy West.

I believe Linda Laplant wrote it with Tim in mind.

( There is also a great story that the real Eddie Myers had plastic surgery to change his appearance and wanted to look like Tim Dalton! Though I have my suspicions this was bandied about for promotional reasons )

[Milovy]

Yes... but I don't know how Dalton got through the "I love women" scene without laughing. Yes, obviously he loves women, but... I thought that was bit was meant to be his character surreptitiously gaying it up - to mess with the detective's head. But also I thought there was a definite subtext of, ahem, "male bonding" throughout this movie (ie, we were not supposed to be really sure of what Eddie's motivations and proclivities really were)

I also was intrigued by the very last shot (at least, the last shot in my version). Who was he gazing at - Penelope, or David?

Hope I'm not giving the wrong impression with this review - Tim is quite the manly man throughout this movie -- but I think there is definitely that subtext, that he is just so slippery, that you don't know what's what, or how far he would go to get control over people. Like I said, I have seen him in some good roles and not-so-good roles. This was a really good one for him and it's a real testament to his talent, as well as charisma, that he could pull it off such a complex character so convincingly. He's such a secure performer. I'm impressed.

(Contrasted with The Doctor and the Devils, our other Dalton rental... about which, the less said, the better.)

Edited by Milovy, 13 May 2007 - 02:50 AM.

[ACE]

I loved Timothy's performance in FRAMED, an excellent psychological thriller. I believe Lynda LaPlante was an old mate of Tim's and crafted this part especially for him.

A designer-wearing, health food obsessed, gym-going metrosexual 1990's new man was as far from Tim's real life persona as one could get - I'm sure there's a bit of in-jokery there!

I remember the best interview Tim ever gave (IMHO)was to his old friend Cathy McGowan. She cut through his standard PR waffle about stunts and said she thought the hardest thing for Tim as Bond was wearing the beautiful clothes! Tim (notoriously unconcerned about his apparel) gave his trademark hearty, fruity guffaw!

In Framed, Tim was charming and charismatic and just goes to show that he can handle humour very well, provided that humour is well written.

It looks a little dated now and the film quality has degraded but a fine performance in a fine piece directed by future-Stormbreaker helmer, Geoffrey Sax

[Arch Stanton]

I've heard about this. Never saw it and don't want to if it's only a butchered version. I hope they'd release the full reason for Region 1. It sounds like something I'd really like.

[Lady Rose]

But also I thought there was a definite subtext of, ahem, "male bonding" throughout this movie (ie, we were not supposed to be really sure of what Eddie's motivations and proclivities really were)

You could be right. Myers is a complex character who's only true motivation is to protect himself. I really would have to watch it again to go into further detail. Maybe when I have a spare 4 hours I will

(Contrasted with The Doctor and the Devils, our other Dalton rental... about which, the less said, the better.)

That film had potential but lost its way a little. It has a great cast but somehow never really pulls off the horror of the situation. If you are going through his back catalogue have you seen Jane Eyre, arguably a career best performance? How he never won a ton of awards for that I will never understand.

'Hawks' may also worth a watch if you can get a copy. A very strong emotional performance that he did straight after TLD.

[David Schofield]

'Hawks' may also worth a watch if you can get a copy. A very strong emotional performance that he did straight after TLD.

Hawks is absolutely brilliant. Great material regardless, but Tim makes it even better.

If Hawks had been promoted better (frankly, the watchword for Tim's career) it should have had similar success to that given to Brozza for the Matador years later.

Even sadder is the fact that it has never been readily available on DVD. Surely, at some stage the Anthony Edwards ER fans/Bee Gee fans would have ensured a release?

[Milovy]

I loved Timothy's performance in FRAMED, an excellent psychological thriller. I believe Lynda LaPlante was an old mate of Tim's and crafted this part especially for him.

A designer-wearing, health food obsessed, gym-going metrosexual 1990's new man was as far from Tim's real life persona as one could get - I'm sure there's a bit of in-jokery there!

Metrosexual! That's the word I was looking for. And this movie was done long before there was such a concept in the pop culture.

You could spin this off into a whole fascinating discussion about James Bond, male actors and their images (save that for another time I guess) - but I think the whole thing about this role was not so much the character's orientation (who knows?) but the fact that he would use anything, including possibly his own sexuality, to get what he wanted. He was always testing the other characters to see if they could be manipulated somehow.

Arch Stanton: Don't worry about the 2-hour version as concerns Tim's performance. It doesn't appear to suffer at all and you can follow the plot well enough. I am curious about what was cut out from the full-length version, though.

[Royal Dalton]

Hawks is absolutely brilliant. Great material regardless, but Tim makes it even better.

Yeah, he's fantastic in Hawks. That scene where he breaks down crying on the riverbank blows me away every time I see it.

IMHO, as an actor, he's head and shoulders above the other Bonds (including Craig), and his performance in that film proves it.

[bond87]

I have never seen Framed and after reading through this thread I think that I'll have a look for it in the shops, sounds pretty good. I think that Dalton was fantastic in the BBC produced Jane Eyre as well in 83, I think. Great performance and chemistry with Clarke.

On the topic of Hawks, I remember that I once watched this a few years ago when I was a kid and that I was impressed but I can't really remember it all that well now...I would love to see the movie again just to re-assess it in light of having read poor reviews for the movie, but its only avaliable on VHS and they are almost impossible to find. Most people consider this film to be Dalton's best and most underappreciated movie, is that true?

Edited by bond87, 14 May 2007 - 09:44 AM.

[Milovy]

OK, I was still thinking about Dalton's character in Framed and the (I thought amusing) "I love women" scene, so I went back and found some old interviews from him about the character:

"He's playing and playing him. Eddie is deeply manipulative. There's a down-grading of the policeman's wife," with one comment th'at is particularly on-target.

Dalton is asked if Larry is latently homosexual - if Eddie is bisexual. "I certainly wondered about that. As an actor, you ask yourself these things and then answer as best you can.

"Eddie is exploring physicality with Larry as a way of making friendship. It's male bonding, if you like, but I don't think they develop a ...." Pause. "... frisson of it."

At the time, Dalton sounded like he wanted to do a sequel to Framed. Too bad it never happened... but the funny thing is that he could still play this character at his age, probably...

Oh, by the way - was he using his "real" accent in Framed? (Sorry, I'm kind of ignorant about the geography of various English accents...)

Edited by Milovy, 15 May 2007 - 09:43 PM.

[Simon]

A superb mini series, this.

It showcased a Dalton who was more than capable of giving an Understated performance, and was all the better for it.

All too often he has hammed it up to devastating effect - Framed has to be amongst the best things he has done.

Superb.

[Milovy]

Yes, but on several occasions he's been HIRED to ham things up, hasn't he?

The funny thing is that in the Bond films he was understated as he possibly could be, and a lot of people didn't like it.

I'll give an example of a not very good performance from him, though - The Doctor and the Devils. I wasn't impressed with much of anything in that film, including him (although he has a nice, quiet scene toward the end where he finally realizes what he's done).

[col_007]

it got released in the uk in january last year

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B000BSQQVI

i dont know if its the full version as it runs at 200 minutes by the way sorry if am being picky but it was on itv not bbc

Edited by col_007, 16 May 2007 - 12:36 PM.

[bond87]

Hey,
I found this clip on youtube, apparently from the movie Framed - although don't take my word for it since I haven't actually seen the movie;

[Milovy]

Well, what do you know... I managed to get hold of the four-hour version and take a look to see how they managed to chop it down to two hours. They did it mainly by eviscerating the first episode (the one in Spain) and by cutting out a lot of stuff between Larry (David Morrissey) and his wife, and (unfortunately) a lot of Timothy West's scenes at police headquarters. Frankly, I think the two-hour version, all things considered, really wasn't half bad considering how much they cut out, but the four-hour version is definitely easier to follow.

Most of Dalton's scenes were uncut (or minimally cut) with the exception of sometimes amusing scenes in the first episode that established his character's suave style and ability to get the police to do what he wanted.

(Incidentally, Dalton and West previously acted on screen together in Agatha.)

Edited by Milovy, 05 June 2007 - 12:08 AM.

[col_007]

i rented it from amazon dvd rental i think its a very very good serial well worth watching as dalton as bad guy