34 replies to this topic

[nnaka261]

I feel like the GoldenEye production team could have done better than Eric Serra. While his stuff works great for films like Rollerball or The Fifth Element, I think a Bond film needs a more traditional, orchestrated score. In fact, does anyone remember the music from the GoldenEye trailer? That was good. Whatever happened to whomever orchestrated that?

What do you think? Would the film have been better with a different score? I feel like it might have. But then again, as a musician, I have a bit of a bias to music's influence on people, and in my opinion, a score can make or break a movie.

In this case, the film's quite hard to break; it was a great movie of itself. But would a more "timeless" score help make the movie age more gracefully?

Edited by nnaka261, 04 April 2007 - 01:30 AM.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

No music score in the background would be an improvement over Serra's work, easily the worst score in the "official" series. You would think after the long no Bond film hiatus, EON would have given the folks a more John Barry-like score. But NOOOOOO!!

Serra's music is one of the things that keep me from ranking GE as the best of the Brosnan films.

[00Twelve]

I don't hate the GE score as much as the majority of fans, but yeah, it does have it's gaping flaws. True, the synth stuff was pretty awkward in some places, but I actually loved the use of timpani drums playing the Bond theme's guitar riff in the PTS, and I feel like one of the few who liked the gunbarrel music pretty well.

Apart from the synth music, the orchestral cues, you have to admit, are beautiful. The arrival in Cuba and "We share the same passions" scene, as well as the Severnaya suite, are exquisite and up to the usual high Bondian standard.

I am thankful, however, that we got the last minute (albeit half-aed) replacement for the "Drive Through St. Petersburg." As broken as that scene's music was, the original music would have been a disaster, IMO.

When I was 13 and the movie was first out, I even liked the end title song but now I've come to the conclusion that yes, it's pretty lame.

[Professor Dent]

The Goldeneye Overture isn't bad & I find some of it interesting but definitely not one of my favorite scores. Serra's lack of use of the James Bond Theme is the achille's heel of it. Even if he would have built on what he did in the gunbarrel, it would have made a world of difference. The disappointing part is that the GE trailer had an awesome version of the James Bond Theme in it. Maybe he should have asked Parodi/Fair for some help.

[Publius]

What do you think? Would the film have been better with a different score?

Not as far as I'm concerned, but then again I think GE is already a fairly solid movie, the faults of which lie more with its lead actor (Brosnan didn't fit well, TND was more up his alley), its writing (all that "we're in the 90s" dissing of the Bond mythos), and its playing it safe in the wrong ways.

I even actually like a lot of Serra's score (the "what keeps me alive" scene), but there's enough I don't (the "industrial" cue when Bond races Xenia) that I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced with something with more orchestrated. Not necessarily traditional, as I do appreciate some of the risks GE took (intentionally or not), but less...weird, I guess.

I do love the gunbarrel music, however, and that should definitely stay.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I need to hear Michael J. Lewis's rejected score to know if a bullet was dodged or not. Serra's effort may just be much better than it.

[alan_more]

I need to hear Michael J. Lewis's rejected score to know if a bullet was dodged or not. Serra's effort may just be much better than it.

The Michael J. Lewis score just doesn't exist so could not ever be "rejected".
What is spread over the internet under that name is a fake built from stolen tracks of unrelated scores.

[Kalel577]

It would be nice to get a super special edition version of GE with a remastered score performed by either Barry or Arnold.

[Santa]

A new score would have made a big difference in my eyes. Or ears . Hated the Serra score and I think it was a mistake to break with tradition in this case, plus I can't see why they would. The scores have largely been excellent in Bond, despite anything else that may have gone wrong. If it ain't broke...

[Bond... Raybond]

The Michael Lewis score does exist, well as a promo, as I have it - and it is naff. It is only twenty minutes long and after listening to only two minutes of it I'm glad it was not accepted. Not sure how serious Lewis' attempt was (merely throwing his hat in the ring more in hope than expectation?) because it is so dull. At least Serra's score had some identity - like it or loathe it.

I personally agree with the comments so far on Serra's effort - some parts great (gunbarrell, PTS, orchestral sections), others terrible (ferrari/aston chase). The CD version of the score contains some gems not in the film (the original tank chase and part of the Scale to Hell)

The problem with Goldeneye for me is that Serra's score is so linked in my head to that film, I really struggle to imagine any other music played with it.

[Skudor]

I don't particularly like Serra's score to GoldenEye, but it is so connected with that movie that I can't really imagine anything else. Certainly not another recycled David Arnold score.

[00Twelve]

Certainly not another recycled David Arnold score.

Oh...no no no. Noooo. Love David Arnold, but no.

[Qwerty]

No. Some love the GoldenEye score and some hate it. I like the fact that it stands out as the black sheep of the Bond soundtracks. In my opinion, it is a very integral aspect of how GoldenEye comes off as a film altogether--much more so than some other scores in the series.

Leave it be.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I need to hear Michael J. Lewis's rejected score to know if a bullet was dodged or not. Serra's effort may just be much better than it.

The Michael J. Lewis score just doesn't exist so could not ever be "rejected".
What is spread over the internet under that name is a fake built from stolen tracks of unrelated scores.

I've heard this too, but has Lewis himself confirmed this?

[PlayItBogart]

I actually liked Goldeneye's soundtrack. It doesn't feel traditional, and maybe that's why I like it. Goldeneye has more of a darker feel to it, and I think Serra's score works great in a lot of the scenes. Even his version of the tank chase could have been decent if it didn't sound so boring towards the end.

Oh yeah, and the end song blows, I will concede that. Give us the James Bond theme or something.

[Taro Todoroki]

Alarm bells went off for me when Bond just does pull the plane out of it's dive and the weapons factory exploded and then.....nothing. I was expecting something more like when Bond opened his parachute in TSWLM. Hey, it HAD been a long six and a half year wait for us since LTK!

[nnaka261]

Upon another listen to the gunbarrel sequence music, I'll concede that it had some strong points. But a lot about it still bothers me. Namely, the end titles sequence. That hurt.

And it's too bad Bono and The Edge didn't collaborate with Serra. It would've been neat to hear some of the title song's motifs during the movie.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

It would be nice to get a super special edition version of GE with a remastered score performed by either Barry or Arnold.

I could live with that. It could only help the film's quality.

[Royal Dalton]

Eric Serra's score's alright in itself, but it seems a bit hollow and out of place in a Bond film.

Michael J. Lewis is a smashing composer. He would have done a very good job.

My own choice for the film would have been John Scott (who can be heard playing the saxophone on the Goldfinger score).

[The Cat]

I need to hear Michael J. Lewis's rejected score to know if a bullet was dodged or not. Serra's effort may just be much better than it.

The Michael J. Lewis score just doesn't exist so could not ever be "rejected".
What is spread over the internet under that name is a fake built from stolen tracks of unrelated scores.

I've heard this too, but has Lewis himself confirmed this?

It wasn't even written by Lewis. It's a combination of 70s catalogue music written by John Cacavas and two other composers for a comission by a well-known catalogue music company. Four tracks are from Lewis' general showreel tape, which wasn't written for GoldenEye either.

[MattofSteel]

I'm often a staunch supporter of the torching of Eric Serra's score for GoldenEye, but reading the posts above I may have come around slightly. What people seem to be saying is true, there are certain moments in the score I absolutely love...I just think that there needed to be more of a traditional Bond sound on top. Elements of the GoldenEye overture work...IE for the "sneaking" part of the scene...but can you imagine that chase erupting in full Barry-style? The cue when Bond/Natalya are running through the archives ("Run, Shoot, Jump") and Bond up the Antenna Cradle is brilliant, I love it. And yes, that string melody behind the casino and the accompanying one behind the beach scene are both terrific pieces of music.

My opinion of the quality a score is not just the music itself, but how it compliments the film. The great paradox is, how can we know how well it compliments it? Only one score is ever written (usually) for every film. Most films (IE Tomorrow Never Dies), we sort of unanimously agree shouldn't be touched. But some (IE GoldenEye) I often tend to think "Might be cool to hear something different on top."

Basic answer, I don't want something TOTALLY new. But I'd love to hear David Arnold fill in the gaps between the spots I think are already cool.

[gra007]

Alarm bells went off for me when Bond just does pull the plane out of it's dive and the weapons factory exploded and then.....nothing. I was expecting something more like when Bond opened his parachute in TSWLM.

This piece of Bond music from TSWLM fits right in there perfectly too, which makes it sadder that it's not in there.

Overall though, I don't really notice the music while watching the movie, except for the nose-dive plane scene lack-there of, and the end credits. I think it works well for the Natalya scenes, and even the "Run, Shoot, Jump" piece, although it was used twice.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I need to hear Michael J. Lewis's rejected score to know if a bullet was dodged or not. Serra's effort may just be much better than it.

The Michael J. Lewis score just doesn't exist so could not ever be "rejected".
What is spread over the internet under that name is a fake built from stolen tracks of unrelated scores.

I've heard this too, but has Lewis himself confirmed this?

It wasn't even written by Lewis. It's a combination of 70s catalogue music written by John Cacavas and two other composers for a comission by a well-known catalogue music company. Four tracks are from Lewis' general showreel tape, which wasn't written for GoldenEye either.

There you go then. No grassy knoll here. Thanks Cat.

[TonicBH]

I think the main problem is that many fans of Bond scores have it too deep-rooted in their minds of what a Bond score should sound like. Goldeneye was more of a slight change of pace, and the score reflects it. I am one of the few who liked the synth style and the original tank chase music (although the version that made it into the film wasn't bad either).

Could you imagine Barry scoring Goldeneye? Probably wouldn't have as much punch. Although I have been picturing his score to TLD to the PTS of the film.

[ACE]

I too have the purported GoldenEye score by Michael J Lewis. I think it is not that good, pretty bland. Thanks for the clarification, The Cat.

I, ahem, really like Eric Serra's GoldenEye score. I agree with 00Twelve about the orchestral pieces - they are beautiful. I love the subtle inclusion of the James Bond theme on timpani. I really LOVE "A Pleasant Drive In St Petersburg" and thinks it would have worked much better. It is wonderfully inventive and fresh. Arguably, it set the tone for Arnold's Bond work.

No, I don't like the plinky synth of "Ladies First" or the synth Goldfinger horn stabs in the Overture. The score does lack thematic coherence (a similar problem afflicting Michael Kamen's LTK and David Arnold's DAD). I understand Serra was disappointed with the sound mix overpowering his score.

A shame there is no instrumental version of The Experience of Love (an instrumental of GoldenEye is also missed but Serra didn't write the track makes an instrumental always less likely). I really like this Peter Gabriel-esque, haunting end theme song (although the tune is nicked from previous Serra work). I was a fan of Serra's work pre-Bond and leapt for joy when he was announced as the composer.

However, IMHO, the GoldenEye score was energetic, atmospheric, lyrical, original (for Bond), bold, fresh and very, very Bondian.

[dodge]

I too have the purported GoldenEye score by Michael J Lewis. I think it is not that good, pretty bland. Thanks for the clarification, The Cat.

I, ahem, really like Eric Serra's GoldenEye score. I agree with 00Twelve about the orchestral pieces - they are beautiful. I love the subtle inclusion of the James Bond theme on timpani. I really LOVE "A Pleasant Drive In St Petersburg" and thinks it would have worked much better. It is wonderfully inventive and fresh. Arguably, it set the tone for Arnold's Bond work.
No, I don't like the plinky synth of "Ladies First" or the synth Goldfinger horn stabs in the Overture. The score does lack thematic coherence (a similar problem afflicting Michael Kamen's LTK and David Arnold's DAD). I understand Serra was disappointed with the sound mix overpowering his score.

A shame there is no instrumental version of The Experience of Love (an instrumental of GoldenEye is also missed but Serra didn't write the track makes an instrumental always less likely). I really like this Peter Gabriel-esque, haunting end theme song (although the tune is nicked from previous Serra work). I was a fan of Serra's work pre-Bond and leapt for joy when he was announced as the composer.

However, IMHO, the GoldenEye score was energetic, atmospheric, lyrical, original (for Bond), bold, fresh and very, very Bondian.

I'm with you and 00Twelve on this and I continue to hum Que sera sera--Serra!
We're in the distinct majority here. But, aside from the points you've made, Serra's funky score accomplished the impossible--giving Pierce Brosnan's Bond an edge and making him seem almost...hip.

[Santa]

Oh dear, one of the problems I have with this score is that for me it did the opposite, it only emphasised that certain naffness that Pierce suffers from. It seems a middle-aged man's idea of a funky score... (ducks head and waits)

[Fiona Volpe lover]

As a fan of Serra's work with Luc Besson,I didn't mind the Goldeneye score,although it's nowhere as good as,say,Leon. It's a little schizophrenic,but I like the combination of the two main styles of the score although the music could have sometimes been placed better IMO. When one of the lush string themes plays over the start of the casino scene,it just doesn't work!

My main problem with the score is that it wasn't mixed LOUD enough,especially the industrial/synthisiser bits-they could have been made to sound pretty exciting with the right sound mix and perhaps the odd change of emphasis.

I think with a louder mix,a bit of restructuring and maybe a little more music in places,the Goldeneye score could be made to sound really good.

[parp]

I've always thought Serra's score worked really well. Especially in the pre-credits sequence.

While we're on the subject am I the only person who thinks David Arnold is only good when he's blatantly ripping off John Barry? Why don't EON cut out the middle man and just hire Barry instead? I can't believe Arnold gets away with it!

Having said that I do think the score for CR is awesome but only because it sounds so much like Barry's work. I also think Surrender could have been the best Bond theme of the last 20 years had the producers had the balls to use it.

Ho hum.

[ACE]

Having said that I do think the score for CR is awesome but only because it sounds so much like Barry's work.

Which tracks on CR do you think sound "so much like Barry"?