21 replies to this topic

[Geodrin]

Okay, in goldeneye Judy Dench's character was treated like the 'new' M. Since M is now played by a girl, but in the new reboot M is still played by Judy Dench, making absolutely no sense. M stands for Miles Masservy, a guy. Continuity wise the film did not make much sense. I finally got past Daniel Craig's appearance, now I'm nagging about Judy Dench. IT just doesn't make any sense, at all.

I think Jud Dench did an excellent job acting the character, It just dosen't make any sense. Now their really saying this isn't what Bond's first mission was like, ther not saying that you could watch this, then watch all of the other 007 movies and it makes sense, it's just more confusing.

[00Twelve]

The producers just loved her so much in the role that they asked her back for CR. They also couldn't find anyone else that they liked. M stood for Miles Messervy originally, but while the position was named for him (in real life it's "C" after its first head), it continued to be "M" for the next chief, just as "C" is still used at SIS(MI6).

If you examine her character carefully, she's playing an alternate version of her Broz-era counterpart. Granted, that begins to sound weird, but the characterization is indeed different. In CR, she mentions missing the Cold War and the cut and dry procedures of the time, whereas in GE she condemns Bond for being a holdover from the Cold War, which obviously hints at disdain for it and relief that it no longer exists. Her temperament is also just a little different...significantly shorter. Yeah, it can be a little hard to swallow, but as with all movies, you just have to suspend your disbelief, and (in this case) believe that this really is Bond's first boss in 2006. Don't know if Messervy will ever make a return, but it'd be cool if he did.

[plankattack]

You are right, it doesn't make sense. On the 'Becoming Bond' feature on the SE DVD, Campbell admits that it doesn't make sense. But it's a movie so you just have to swallow it and move on. Heck, the movies are over 45 years old and yet Bond doesn't seem to age, he just seems to look completely different every ten years. Last time I checked, he's even blonde!!!

Logically, CR might have been a good time to re-cast M - but I do think the producers wanted some sort of touchstone while they were busy "rebooting." I remember before GE I was like "M is a woman? Good grief!" But you know what, Dame Judi is one of the world's great actresses, and her relationship with Bond in CR is both credible and essential to the character's new arc.

Does it make sense? No. But invisible cars, space stations, and Blofeld's obsession with white cats don't make a lot of sense either.

[Skudor]

Welcome aboard Geodrin.

No, Judi Dench being in Casino Royale doesn't make any sense. Luckily it isn't meant to make sense. I think it's best left at that. It's an unsquarable circle.

[dodge]

And Jeffrey Wright isn't looking too much like Jack Lord. In this regard, it's nonsense of the highest order. I do love their boldness about it--right in our faces, no excuses or explanations. This is our world, welcome to it.

[Judo chop]

If you examine her character carefully, she's playing an alternate version of her Broz-era counterpart. Granted, that begins to sound weird, but the characterization is indeed different. In CR, she mentions missing the Cold War and the cut and dry procedures of the time, whereas in GE she condemns Bond for being a holdover from the Cold War, which obviously hints at disdain for it and relief that it no longer exists. Her temperament is also just a little different...significantly shorter.

I like this take on it. In fact, back in the day when the casting was just being finalized and they announced the return of Dench, I stated in at least a couple threads that I was excited to see how she would bring new a new personality (same name, but a different

[00Twelve]

Well, I think as an actress, it'd be way obvious if she put herself into the "I can't play anything like I've already played" box. I think she just objectively looked at the script, and played the character in the way that made most sense to her.

[DamnCoffee]

Its a reboot, and Judi's the right woman for the job.

[Fro]

It does make sense because it's a completely new timeline, therefore Dench isn't playing the exact same character from Goldeneye.

[Publius]

Joe Don Baker was the main bad guy in TLD, in which he was killed. He was Bond's go-to guy in the CIA two movies later.

Maud Adams was one of two main Bond girls and was the title villain's girlfriend in TMWTGG, in which she was killed. Four movies later, she was the title character and main Bond girl.

Charles Gray was Bond's contact in Japan in YOLT, in which he was killed. Two movies later, he was Bond's archnemesis, the man who killed his wife in the previous movie (then played by an American gangster) and was the villain in YOLT (then played by a scrawny Englishman using some kind of European accent).

Robert Brown played Admiral Hargreaves in TSWLM and M from OP to LTK. He was M to both 57 year old Roger Moore in AVTAK and 40 year old Timothy Dalton in the next movie.

Desmond Llewelyn was Q from 1963 to 1999. Few people would argue that the Bond of FRWL was the same as the one of TWINE.


So no, I don't find it too much of a stretch to accept Judi Dench as two different Ms in two separate Bond timelines (even if I would have preferred someone else, and a man at that).

[plankattack]

We've got this continuity thing going in two threads right now and it's completely boggling my mind!!!!

Edited by plankattack, 16 March 2007 - 09:50 PM.

[Publius]

We've got this continuity thing going in two threads right now and it's completely boggling my mind!!!!

They're actually the same thread, just in parallel dimensions that criss-cross each other at particular points. Or something like that. It probably also involves Fleming and/or Cubby rolling in their graves, now that I think about it.

[plankattack]

We've got this continuity thing going in two threads right now and it's completely boggling my mind!!!!

They're actually the same thread, just in parallel dimensions that criss-cross each other at particular points. Or something like that. It probably also involves Fleming and/or Cubby rolling in their graves, now that I think about it.

Publius - I have just laughed heartily out loud!!! At the end of day, it's not Brozza's fault, so everyone can feel relieved.

[bill007]

Publius - I have just laughed heartily out loud!!! At the end of day, it's not Brozza's fault, so everyone can feel relieved.

Well, Ok. But only for this evening. FBLFCOL (Fellow Bond Lover's Friendly Chuckle Out Loud).

Back on topic, though...

I love Dame Judy. Really, I do. But ever since I heard/read (somewhere) that Bond no longer needs Moneypenny because M is covering the mothering role, a female M just has to go.

Along with the title song, Dame Judy returning as M in Casino Royale are my ONLY two thorns about the greatest Bond film since the early days.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Okay, in goldeneye Judy Dench's character was treated like the 'new' M. Since M is now played by a girl, but in the new reboot M is still played by Judy Dench, making absolutely no sense. M stands for Miles Masservy, a guy. Continuity wise the film did not make much sense. I finally got past Daniel Craig's appearance, now I'm nagging about Judy Dench. IT just doesn't make any sense, at all.

I think Jud Dench did an excellent job acting the character, It just dosen't make any sense. Now their really saying this isn't what Bond's first mission was like, ther not saying that you could watch this, then watch all of the other 007 movies and it makes sense, it's just more confusing.

ITA. I'll concede that Dame Judi Dench may well be the most talented actress in current British cinema but I want the character of Admiral Sir Miles Messervy back where he belongs, especially since this is "Bond Begins." I understand why MGM/Sony/EON would have kept her on as a business decision, but M should have been played by an actor not an actress.

[bill007]

(wiping out previously scripted dialogue)....

,,,Uh humm, Yes, I concure.

[Blonde Bond]

I'm a fan of Dame Judi Dench's M. I'm glad that they kept her.

[DaveBond21]

It does make sense because it's a completely new timeline, therefore Dench isn't playing the exact same character from Goldeneye.

Judi Dench explained in all her interviews that she IS playing the same character. Quote - "We find out more about her in this one".

[JLaidlaw]

I love Judi Dench as M, she's the second most important character in Bond right now, and she can not be replaced until this Daniel Craig arc is over.

I have to admit I'm really looking forward to the change from Dench to her successor being referenced in the film, just to see how they do it. I don't really want it to happen until Bond 23 or 24, but I'd like to see if they do reference the change, like they did in Goldeneye, or even if they prepare her successor in advance like they did with John Cleese. It would be a nice touch if her successor was Admiral Messervy, but not that important.

[HawkEye007]

She did seem slightly different personality wise, but I think did miss a good chance to go back to a male M. I would like to see them replace her, maybe have her be assasinated by Mr. White's group, then be replaced my Miles Messervy, or maybe even Admiral Hargreaves.

[00Twelve]

It does make sense because it's a completely new timeline, therefore Dench isn't playing the exact same character from Goldeneye.

Judi Dench explained in all her interviews that she IS playing the same character. Quote - "We find out more about her in this one".

I'm still happy in my interpretation that her Casino Royale M is the M who recruited James Bond (born in 1968), gave him 00 status, and gave him his first mission. How the fans who insist that she's the same person opposite Pierce Brosnan want to wrap sense around it, that's their business. IMO, the hard drive was formatted. Period. (I'd also like to see Sir Miles replace her and quickly earn and command Bond's respect )

[Santa]

I'll be in the minority here as I'd rather the change not be referenced in any way, when it happens. In one film M is Dame Judi, in the next M is... someone else.