14 replies to this topic

[Daddy Bond]

A couple of nit-picky observations about CR (now one of my favorte Bond movies):

1. When Bond sits back down to play more poker after he is poisoned - the movie almost immediately cuts to Bond walking through the hotel and into Vesper's room where he finds her in the shower?

There is no scene indicating that the poker game ended for the evening only to resume the next morning. Clearly this is what happened, but the abruptness of ending the poker scene for the evening without any explanation seemed too sudden - almost making it look like the scenes were not cut together properly - or like there was a continuity problem. I know there wasn't, but the cut is awkward.

It seems like a scene is missing. This is what I think is needed at this point in the movie to make it flow better.

After implying that they had continued playing poker for a while, they needed to have the dealer or whoever makes the announcement state that the game would recess until the next evening. Then, they could show Bond noticing that Vesper STILL was not there - he gets concerned, goes looking for her and then finds her in the shower.

2. Also, to raise Bond's suspicions about Mathis, it would have been a nice touch to have Mathis give a slight look of suprise whenever Bond returns to the table after being poisoned.

Thoughts?

[Santa]

2. Also, to raise Bond's suspicions about Mathis, it would have been a nice touch to have Mathis give a slight look of suprise whenever Bond returns to the table after being poisoned.

Ah, but was Mathis really dodgy, or did Bond get that wrong? In which case Mathis would have no reason to be surprised.

[JimmyBond]

A couple of nit-picky observations about CR (now one of my favorte Bond movies):

1. When Bond sits back down to play more poker after he is poisoned - the movie almost immediately cuts to Bond walking through the hotel and into Vesper's room where he finds her in the shower?

There is no scene indicating that the poker game ended for the evening only to resume the next morning. Clearly this is what happened, but the abruptness of ending the poker scene for the evening without any explanation seemed too sudden - almost making it look like the scenes were not cut together properly - or like there was a continuity problem. I know there wasn't, but the cut is awkward.

It seems like a scene is missing. This is what I think is needed at this point in the movie to make it flow better.

I think it works fine just the way it is. An extra scene is not needed, as that would really kill the flow of the scene. We're shown that Bond is getting back to the game and being cocky about it (That last hand, nearly killed me), then we cut to Bond in the room, I don't think it's unclear what's going on.

[Publius]

Bond "wins it all" shortly after being poisoned and having his heart jump-started. It's after the stairwell fight ("You changed your shirt...") that Bond returns to presumably finish for the night before finding Vesper in the shower of their room.

Anyway, that said, I agree with JimmyBond that another scene isn't needed, although a brief mention at some point about the game taking as many days as required (which is most likely the case, given the game and its stakes) wouldn't have hurt at all.

As for Mathis, I prefer that they leave him as ambiguous as possible.

[Daddy Bond]

Bond "wins it all" shortly after being poisoned and having his heart jump-started. It's after the stairwell fight ("You changed your shirt...") that Bond returns to presumably finish for the night before finding Vesper in the shower of their room.

Anyway, that said, I agree with JimmyBond that another scene isn't needed, although a brief mention at some point about the game taking as many days as required (which is most likely the case, given the game and its stakes) wouldn't have hurt at all.

As for Mathis, I prefer that they leave him as ambiguous as possible.

Actually, the scenes don't fit together that way. It would fit better the way you described it, but that is not the order in which it is presented in the movie.

This is the order:

1. The stairwell fight.
2. Bond returns to the game.
3. Bond gets poisoned.
4. Bond's heart is jumpstarted.
5. Bond returns again to the game.
6. Poker game adjurns for the evening (implied - this is the scene I would have liked to see - but is not in the movie)
7. Bond finds Vesper in the shower (presumably after the game has adjurned for the evening.
8. The next evening the game resumes.
9. Bond wins it all at this point.

Thus Bond does not win until the day AFTER he is poisoned and not shortly after he is poisoned. I will double check on my DVD tonight.

Regards

[deth]

incidentally, you've got the order all wrong there...

it should read like this:

1. The stairwell fight.
2. Bond returns to the game.
3. Poker game adjurns for the evening (implied - this is the scene I would have liked to see - but is not in the movie)
4. Bond finds Vesper in the shower (presumably after the game has adjurned for the evening.
5. The next evening the game resumes.
6. Bond gets poisoned.
7. Bond's heart is jumpstarted.
8. Bond returns again to the game.
9. Bond wins it all at this point.

[Mr Ashdown]

This is the order:

1. The stairwell fight.
2. Bond returns to the game.
3. Bond gets poisoned.
4. Bond's heart is jumpstarted.
5. Bond returns again to the game.
6. Poker game adjurns for the evening (implied - this is the scene I would have liked to see - but is not in the movie)
7. Bond finds Vesper in the shower (presumably after the game has adjurned for the evening.
8. The next evening the game resumes.
9. Bond wins it all at this point.

Thus Bond does not win until the day AFTER he is poisoned and not shortly after he is poisoned. I will double check on my DVD tonight.

Regards

Sorry, but that's wrong. This is what happens:

The stairwell fight, bloody, brutal, shocking. Bond the professional deals with it by putting on his armour, thinking things through. Vesper, the movie's real victim, is horrified -- remember, she's part of the causal events that lead to these dead men, and she's now face-to-face with the realisation of just how nasty and soul-destroying her deception is, and how Bond is so effective at dealing with whatever is thrown at him. She is sickened to the core.

Bond, cool, armour on, changes his shirt, returns to the table. Then...

Then the game is over for a while, and he returns to the room. He sees the broken wine glass (a metaphor, if ever there was one), and then Vesper, vulnerable, scared, shocked in the shower. And he takes off his armour and goes to sit with her. He is human again. They connect, in pain.

Then back to the game...

The clear thing is that the stairwell fight and the shower scene are two acts of a mini-drama. This is why they are only minutes (at most) apart.

[bill007]

Hmmm. Interesting. The DVD is out, and there is confusion about the order of scenes.

Order of the scenes there is confusion about, with the DVD out. Interesting. Hmmm.

[Mamadou]

I just watched it again (having got the DVD only hours ago). Here's the order:

1. Game, Part I: Bond folds, they take a break
2. Obanno attacks Le Chiffre
3. Stairwell fight
4. Bond cleaning up in bathroom
5. "I hope our little game isn't causing you to perspire," game resumes
6. Shower scene
7. Next morning, bodies found in car
8. Game, Part II: Bond loses
9. Balcony scene
10. "Get the girl out," Leiter
11. Game, Part III: Le Chiffre folds
12. Poisoning
13. Game, Part IV: Bond wins

Of course it's implied they take a break for the night. I appreciated the jump cut where they put it, because I don't think the scene needed to be any longer than it already was. We have four scenes with the game, so what would it have added? Even if they didn't show the play, it would be rather pointless; the scene would look something like this: the game resumes, cut to guy ending the game for the night. Now that would have been jarring. The point of the scene as it stands is to show Bond and Le Chiffre facing off.

[Fro]

Yeah, there's no point in having a scene there, since they already established in the previous scene that they were taking breaks.

It also masks how bad Vesper's mental state is during the shower scene.

Edited by Fro, 15 March 2007 - 01:16 AM.

[DaveBond21]

Just to repeat that we do not know which side Mathis is on, so why should he look surprised if he is innocent?

Daddy Bond - did you get that point?

[00Twelve]

And just a little spoiler to add to Dave's post there:

Spoiler

Gianinni has said that Mathis will turn out to be an ally of Bond in Bond 22. So this makes me think he wasn't as guilty as he looked, and thus shouldn't have been surprised to see Bond return.

[Skudor]

I like the way it cuts. I agree that on the face of it it seems abrupt but, as the guys point out above, doing it slower would have detracted from the whole point of it -> the shower scene. As a whole it really serves to wake the audience up to the fact that violence is serious and death is serious, not glamorous as it's normally portrayed. It's one of the highlights of the movie, something nudging it a step or two above your standard action flick.

[bond_girl_double07]

Actually, speaking of the changing shirt scene, you'd think that being poisoned and having your heart restarted would make you break out in a little bit of a sweat.. also, Bond basically throws that glass of salt water on himself.. yet he looks miraculously put together when he rejoins the game..

but perhaps Craig is so hot that he dried himself before going back in the building

[bill007]

I can't remember which Bond novel it was in, but the salt water is meant to induce vomiting, the initial step in self-aid in that situation. As for returning to the game, I merely put it down to Bond returning to his room for a quick change.

What I find hilarious is the look on Leiter's face as he tosses in his last chips while trying to keep the game alive just before Bond returns. Enter 007, fresh faced, and ready to kick some poker butt.