14 replies to this topic

[Simon]

Mr Craig pulled this scene off with such skill that if the producers are looking for / willing to explore other Fleming 'harder' scenes to commit to film, my impression is that they could do worse than tackle Golden Gun's, 'M's attempted murder' scene after Bond had been captured and brainwashed.

CR's torture scene and the pivotal card scene were very classily portrayed - I would love to see how Bond attempting to murder his boss could be played out and how it would be received by the audience.

Certainly, other Fleming scenes have been transposed from book to non-related film, FYEO's keel hauling scene, and LTK's Leiter and his leg scene have set the precedent.

Quite how it could be inserted into the film is a question - I'm not sure it could open Bond 23 as the wait would be horrific and I'm not sure anyone would allow Bond 22 to end on such a low as Bond captured and incarcerated. But perhaps in the middle of the film, after a passage of time had been portrayed so Bond could go to the Park, clean up and save the day etc etc.

[spynovelfan]

Thinking about it, surely Bond appearing to assassinate M would be a perfect pre-credits scene?

[DamnCoffee]

I could just imagine Bond chasing Dame Judes around her office with a knife.

[marktmurphy]

Thinking about it, surely Bond appearing to assassinate M would be a perfect pre-credits scene?

Not for the next one, though- at least by Golden Gun Flem's Bond was established as being the best man in the service; after just one outing as a double O (in which he publicy humiliated the service, quit and then appeared to steal millions from the government) I don't think M would have any reason to try and help him after he tries to kill her! She probably would have him killed!

To be honest I'm not sure I'd like to see this scene: the brainwashing is really far-fetched, would require Bond to have been captured for some length of time, which we've only just seen in DAD (now there's an opportunity missed!), and I think makes Bond a bit too unsympathetic- although that could be really interesting.
Perhaps if he had to appear to try to kill M, or they were trying to persuade an outside party that he had gone rogue but the audience weren't aware of this- that might be a nice way to open a film.

[spynovelfan]

Sure, I meant in a while, not for the next film.

Brainwashing is only far-fetched if you don't show in detail how it's done. A lot of people in MI6 thought that George Blake had been brainwashed by the North Koreans while a POW.

[Skudor]

I'm all for doing that. It deserves it's own movie though.

Obviously he'd have to suffocate her with plastic bag...

[Mr. Du Pont]

Actually, the way Fleming wrote that scene, it immediately struck me as sounding like something out of a Roger Moore Bond film. So, no, I would not want this in a Craig film. Unless you mean the more general idea of a brainwash/murder attempt. In that case, maybe. But not as Fleming specifically wrote it.

[JimmyBond]

Actually, the way Fleming wrote that scene, it immediately struck me as sounding like something out of a Roger Moore Bond film. So, no, I would not want this in a Craig film. Unless you mean the more general idea of a brainwash/murder attempt. In that case, maybe. But not as Fleming specifically wrote it.

Forgive me, it's been a while since I've read TMWTGG, but it never struck me as something Moore would do. Just as he'd seem out of place threatening Pushkin in TLD, I think he'd seem out of place playing a brainwashed Bond attempting to murder his boss. His Bond was always in control, it'd seem out of character for him to lose that control.

[00Twelve]

I think there are still plenty of places to go with the Fleming material in terms of torture. I'd love to see these "torture-and-related" scenes:

Moonraker's blowtorch torture. (Just like CR...no need to be flashy, just effective)

LALD's finger-breaking.

DAF's "Boston stomping."

Dr. No's obstacle course.

Goldfinger's wood saw.

And yes, the TMWTGG M attempt would be intriguing to see on film, but I'd rather see it much later, from a much more veteran agent that M trusts enough to forgive him.

[Mr. Du Pont]

Actually, the way Fleming wrote that scene, it immediately struck me as sounding like something out of a Roger Moore Bond film. So, no, I would not want this in a Craig film. Unless you mean the more general idea of a brainwash/murder attempt. In that case, maybe. But not as Fleming specifically wrote it.

Forgive me, it's been a while since I've read TMWTGG, but it never struck me as something Moore would do. Just as he'd seem out of place threatening Pushkin in TLD, I think he'd seem out of place playing a brainwashed Bond attempting to murder his boss. His Bond was always in control, it'd seem out of character for him to lose that control.

If memory serves, the scene had a brainwashed 007 fire a poison gas pellet at M, only to have M activate a bullet-proof shield of sorts that separated the two men. Maybe my memory is faulty on this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

If someone else has read The Man With The Golden Gun more recently, he's free to correct me.

[Binyamin]

Okay, this thread has sparked my interest.

Here is a plot outline I wrote probably in 1998 or so, but it's time to bring it back:

--------------
Story Concept Copyright

Edited by Binyamin, 15 March 2007 - 02:26 AM.

[bill007]

Yes, that's pretty much it, Mr. Du Pont. Chapter 2 (Attentat!, page 18). "This is for Number One on the List." ......"The jet of viscous brown fluid splashed harmlessly into its centre and trickled slowly down, distorting the reflection of M.'s face and the arm he had automatically thrown up for additional protection."

[JimmyBond]

If memory serves, the scene had a brainwashed 007 fire a poison gas pellet at M, only to have M activate a bullet-proof shield of sorts that separated the two men. Maybe my memory is faulty on this, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

Ah yes, it's coming back to me now. Don't see why that can't be reworked into something a bit more realistic. For starters give Bond a actual gun, also I see nothing wrong with a bullet proof screen dropping down between her.

[triviachamp]

I think it would good for a precredits scene. They can make it a non-linear plot to make everyone wonder why Bond did it and if M is dead.

[Simon]

The mode of attempted murder aside, ie bullet or compressed liquid, it was more the suspense that could be portrayed in the build up to 'what must surely, but surely it can't be, Bond about to harm his boss' that could provide the interest.

Certainly, all the conversation before the attempt in the novel was about past 'crimes', so a second film option is probably out of the question, but in film three, I feel it could work, but more in the middle of the film as the audience will not be in the correct state of mind for a wierd bit of scene in a slot where there has been just action in the past.

More imediate history would be required to pull this scene off, to be able to identify with perhaps both Bond and M.