Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

DAF: Was it that bad? Yes-- and worse than DAD


129 replies to this topic

#31 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 February 2007 - 04:15 PM

With all the high octane, gritty cop films in America at the time, I admit I'm a little disappointed that EON didn't follow that trend (only b/c most of the film took place in America). I'm not a fan of copycat films, but instead of the light side, i.e., big car pileups, I wish they'd have taken the darker approach. Of course I wanted to see the resolution to OHMSS, but I'm not even talking about that. I would have loved to see Bond try to get in with criminals, perhaps even drop his accent, and to see the realistic views of Vegas, as Fr. Conn. did with New York. Strangely enough, Bill Hickman (stunt driver in Bullitt, Fr. Conn., and the 7-Ups) was employed in DAF, but the car chase was only what it was. He must have been grossly underused.

I'm just rambling at this point, but I think DAF would have been a great movie if they'd stuck to the criminal angle and shown a somewhat burned out Bond being unafraid of getting killed on this assignment. I'm not saying he should have been Popeye Doyle or Harry Callahan, but you know...as he was in the literary YOLT. It even could have afforded him a break before finding Blofeld in another movie.


You know, you've hit on the something there that's always bothered me. Fine flicks and TV shows have been set in Vegas. Depending on the context, it can be thrilling or trashy. Either way, done right, it can enhance the tale. But DAF was such a lazy and cynical exercise in Bondage that the trashiness of Vegas reflected on the filming rather than the film. Con himself, as Fat Elvis Bond, looked like the ultimate lounge lizard. And the car chase, as shot, was a drunk in a bar looking back on better days.

#32 Blonde Bond

Blonde Bond

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2006 posts
  • Location:Station T , Finland

Posted 21 February 2007 - 05:24 PM

If you mourned over OHMSS and potential follow-up ruined, you probably dont like DAF very much.
But if you watch it as seperate piece from the previous few stories, we got before this film, you might like it.

Sure, I was a bit disappointed, when after a good start, the story didn't follow the revenge plotline, and it always bugs me a little, that this wasn't a follow up to OHMSS.
But... I thoroughly enjoy this movie. For me it feels like pre-Moore bond, with being much like Moore's 'tongue-in-cheek' film, but with Connery.
Connery got to loosen up a little this time around. I have told this before, and I tell it again; I thought Connery did a brilliant job as an comedian in this movie.

I cant blame the movie. It was the groovy seventies, for christ's sake!
Peace and chicken Grease

#33 ChronoBreak

ChronoBreak

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 112 posts
  • Location:Pacific Northwest

Posted 21 February 2007 - 05:30 PM

It's certainly no worse than Die Another Day in my eyes - But just hair above it.

I'll give it this - The dialogue is occassionally very witty, and I actually like Connery's peformance. He's not stellar or anything, but I think it's his breeziest and most relaxed performance as Bond since GF. Oh, and the theme song is classy.

Other than those three qualities, the film is embarrassing. Trashy, tacky, campy (perhaps the most campy Bond of all), and worst of all: Dull.

Edited by ChronoBreak, 21 February 2007 - 05:33 PM.


#34 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:15 PM

It just so happens that my review of DAF (in the 'CBn reviews DAF' thread) makes a comparison to DAD. How convenient for me. Begin paste now:

I finally received my UE volume #1 set and I just watched this one last night. If there were any comparisons to be made between Sean

Edited by Judo chop, 21 February 2007 - 06:19 PM.


#35 plankattack

plankattack

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1385 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:28 PM

DAF is definitely a better film that DAD, though both start well and get worse the longer they go on. But DAF has some redeeming qualities:

- SC who is more engaged in the film that he was in YOLT.
- The elevator fight.
- The funeral parlour.
- Tiffany Case a less jarring presence than Jinx.
- Bond breaking into the Whyte House
- And the script has some wit (M and Bond).

Yes it's cheap and tacky and has aged badly indeed but unlike DAD, the two hours of DAF feels less of a chore. I always wondered why DAF was picked as the "homage movie" -there were so many better films in the series to plunder. So it's no suprise that DAD is what it is - plunder a weak movie and you'll inevitably create a poorer one.

#36 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:30 PM

- SC who is more engaged in the film than he was in YOLT


Amen to that. He was a shadow of his 1965-self in DAF, so let's not pretend it's The Return of the King. But in YOLT, I can't even make out a shadow.

I'm certain that some emotionless doppleganger from a Vulcan moon bodysnatched Connery and took his earthly place sometime early 1967. He was returned in 1971, but obviously was still a little shell-shocked by the experience.

#37 plankattack

plankattack

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1385 posts

Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:33 PM

I'm certain that some emotionless doppleganger from a Vulcan moon bodysnatched Connery and took his earthly place sometime early 1967. He was returned in 1971, but obviously was still a little shell-shocked by the experience.


That would explain the paunch, thinning hair, and sideburns.......

#38 00Twelve

00Twelve

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7706 posts
  • Location:Kingsport, TN

Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:36 PM

Yeah...see, the space travel actually aged him substantially. That's why he looks ready to collect his pension at 41. But at least they fed him well...

#39 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 February 2007 - 07:03 PM

[quote name='Judo chop' post='704444' date='21 February 2007 - 18:15']It just so happens that my review of DAF (in the 'CBn reviews DAF' thread) makes a comparison to DAD. How convenient for me. Begin paste now:

I finally received my UE volume #1 set and I just watched this one last night. If there were any comparisons to be made between Sean

#40 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 21 February 2007 - 07:47 PM

Thanks for the shrewd, insightful review. It's written so well I completely forgot what a terrible letdown the film was. I was transported to the land of stylish prose.


And thank you for the kind words, Dodge.

My formula is 2% talent/novel insight, 98% thesaurus.

#41 00Twelve

00Twelve

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7706 posts
  • Location:Kingsport, TN

Posted 21 February 2007 - 08:41 PM

I don't want to turn this into the official DAF rant thread, but good lord...I just watched a youtube clip of the ending on the cruise ship. Been a good while since I've seen the demise of Wint & Kidd. What a couple of inept twits. I'm sorry, but Putter Smith is in the upper echelons of the worst cinematic casting choices ever, ever made. George Lucas wouldn't have cast him.

Other than the Putter, the action pace just seemed rather nonexistent, and the fight choreography between Connery and Glover was just absolutely uninspired. It's a perfectly fine hee-haw romp, but it's not James Bond in any way. Nothing in Moore's films even approaches that scene. Too bad, too...the corresponding scene in the book was really tense. Ok. Rant done.

#42 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:07 PM

I don't want to turn this into the official DAF rant thread, but good lord...I just watched a youtube clip of the ending on the cruise ship. Been a good while since I've seen the demise of Wint & Kidd. What a couple of inept twits. I'm sorry, but Putter Smith is in the upper echelons of the worst cinematic casting choices ever, ever made. George Lucas wouldn't have cast him.

Other than the Putter, the action pace just seemed rather nonexistent, and the fight choreography between Connery and Glover was just absolutely uninspired. It's a perfectly fine hee-haw romp, but it's not James Bond in any way. Nothing in Moore's films even approaches that scene. Too bad, too...the corresponding scene in the book was really tense. Ok. Rant done.


Not quite my friend... for I will continue the rant. That scene SUCKED. Dialogue was good. I like how Bond smokes the villians out with the rat comment, and then with the Claret trap.

But the choreography... oh, dear Lord. Connery, from behind, reaching between the legs of a gay waiter (who, because is he gay, would of course enjoy having his nuts squashed?? :cooltongue: ), flipping him into a perfect half-pike tumbling routine, finally sticking the landing with an awful, awful explosive (closer to a firecracker) effect.

Why didn't Sean argue with the writers? Why didn't he fight back?!
WHY!? WHY!? WHY!?

#43 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:14 PM

Thanks for the shrewd, insightful review. It's written so well I completely forgot what a terrible letdown the film was. I was transported to the land of stylish prose.


And thank you for the kind words, Dodge.

My formula is 2% talent/novel insight, 98% thesaurus.


My friend, you truly are one of the blessed. Not only do you have a 92" TV...you have a pet thesaurus?! I've seen Jurassic Park dozens of times, but darned if I can remember which one of the beasts was the thesaurus. I don't care--I want one too! Where did you get yours? How much do they cost? Are they are easy to house-train? Can they do cool tricks? Judo, my envy may eat me alive. Please help Dodge to get a thesaurus like yours!

#44 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:32 PM

Thanks for the shrewd, insightful review. It's written so well I completely forgot what a terrible letdown the film was. I was transported to the land of stylish prose.


And thank you for the kind words, Dodge.

My formula is 2% talent/novel insight, 98% thesaurus.


My friend, you truly are one of the blessed. Not only do you have a 92" TV...you have a pet thesaurus?! I've seen Jurassic Park dozens of times, but darned if I can remember which one of the beasts was the thesaurus. I don't care--I want one too! Where did you get yours? How much do they cost? Are they are easy to house-train? Can they do cool tricks? Judo, my envy may eat me alive. Please help Dodge to get a thesaurus like yours!


I have nowhere to go with that one.

#45 PrinceKamalKhan

PrinceKamalKhan

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11139 posts

Posted 22 February 2007 - 01:43 AM

DAF's highlights: Adam's sets, Barry's wonderful score, the cinematography, and the great chemistry between Connery and Jill St. John. And the film is still an improvement on Fleming's novel, which is probably his weakest.

Good call on the Connery-St. John chemistry. So many dislike her portrayal of Tiffany, but they do work well together and that counts for something.

I think it helps I believe they were an item at the time.


Spot on about the Connery/St. John chemistry. I can't picture her Tiffany generating the same sparks with Lazenby, Moore and certainly not Dalton had any of them been cast as Bond. Jill St. John gets a lot of criticism. At-A-Glance-Film-Reviews says "Jill St. John, the main Bond girl this time around is very poor, particularly in the footsteps of the highly respected Diana Rigg" but I disagree. Miss St. John's Tiffany is perfect contrast to Miss Rigg's Mrs. Bond. After Bond lost the love of his life in the sophisticated and elegant Tracy, the brassy Tiffany make a perfect follow up Bond girl, i.e., one Bond would never fall in love with but have a playful, fun relationship with that has no strings attached. Her question at the end where Bond worries she getting too serious only to discover she was more interested in getting the diamonds down again. In retrospect, Tiffany was the 2nd of 3 strong and contrasting Bond girls in a row: Diana Rigg's intelligent, sophisticated Tracy; Jill St. John's fun, brassy and opportunistic Tiffany; and Jane Seymour's beautiful, vulnerable, elegant Solitaire make for 3 of my favorite Bond girls. All 3 of them stand out in my memory more than some of the more recent Bond girls.

Loomis, you're right about Adam's sets and Barry's usual wonderful score. I think if Henry Mancini had ever scored a Bond film it would probably sound similar to Barry's for DAF.


OHMSS is certainly a "better" Bond film but DAF is easily a more "enjoyable" Bond film.

Not for me, and I'm sure I speak for many others in saying that OHMSS is both better and more enjoyable than DAF. I respect your opinion, but just wanted to mention that. :cooltongue:


No problem. To each his own. I do think the 2nd half of OHMSS from "Sir Hilary Bray" meets the Angels of Death onwards to the tragic finale makes for some of the best and most Flemingish Bond cinema ever. Just out of curiosity, Publius. What is your favorite 1970s or "lighthearted" Bond film?

Can't think of any others for the moment, though.

Dalton and d'Abo spring immediately to my mind.


Agreed. Dalton/Miss d'Abo have the best chemistry of any Bond/Bond girl in the series IMHO.

#46 Publius

Publius

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3225 posts
  • Location:Miami

Posted 22 February 2007 - 02:38 AM

Just out of curiosity, Publius. What is your favorite 1970s or "lighthearted" Bond film?

Hmm...tough question. I'd have to say either Live and Let Die or Golden Gun. Despite their flaws, I think dropping a young, much darker Roger Moore in various bizarre settings completely out of his element makes for some great, twisted fun. They may share some unfortunate similarities to Diamonds, but there's an energy and freshness in those two that I found sorely lacking in the other.

#47 DaveBond21

DaveBond21

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 18026 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia (but from the UK)

Posted 22 February 2007 - 05:53 AM

Here is the British website, tv cream, with it's amusing review of DAF:-


Diamonds Are Forever

Connery's comeback caper, easily the best 'non-serious' Bond of the lot. It's endearingly daft without being offensively stupid (yes, Moonraker, we're looking at you), goes all over the place without getting tedious, and features the great more-than-just-a-dodgy-stereotype sub-villains Kidd and Wint. OK, so Charles Gray is a disappointingly avuncular Blofeld, Jill 'Tiffany Case' St. John and Lana 'Plenty O'Toole' Wood don't do much, and the theme song's by Shirley bleedin' Bassey again, but what a plot! Directionless, profligate, vulgar and wantonly episodic, just how Bond should be.

You can imagine the scene - with only weeks to go until shooting starts, round the big conference table a hundred harried writers nervously pitch their little bits of business - "OK, so there's this robotic pipe-welder, right..." "There's a bomb hidden in a big fake trifle..." "Bond fights two feisty kung fu ladies in bikinis!" "How about we have Q playing the fruit machines?" "... and so the car goes up on two wheels..." "... he sticks the marching band cassette down her pants..." "... false fingerprints..." "... TWO Blofelds..." "... a moon buggy!!" - and Good Old Cubby, at head of table, holds up his hand for silence, takes a drag on his cigar, leans forward and says, "Fellas... we'll shoot 'em all!" And we're so glad he did.

:cooltongue:

#48 dee-bee-five

dee-bee-five

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2227 posts

Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:38 AM

I don't want to turn this into the official DAF rant thread, but good lord...I just watched a youtube clip of the ending on the cruise ship. Been a good while since I've seen the demise of Wint & Kidd. What a couple of inept twits. I'm sorry, but Putter Smith is in the upper echelons of the worst cinematic casting choices ever, ever made. George Lucas wouldn't have cast him.

Other than the Putter, the action pace just seemed rather nonexistent, and the fight choreography between Connery and Glover was just absolutely uninspired. It's a perfectly fine hee-haw romp, but it's not James Bond in any way. Nothing in Moore's films even approaches that scene. Too bad, too...the corresponding scene in the book was really tense. Ok. Rant done.


Not quite my friend... for I will continue the rant. That scene SUCKED. Dialogue was good. I like how Bond smokes the villians out with the rat comment, and then with the Claret trap.

But the choreography... oh, dear Lord. Connery, from behind, reaching between the legs of a gay waiter (who, because is he gay, would of course enjoy having his nuts squashed?? :cooltongue: ), flipping him into a perfect half-pike tumbling routine, finally sticking the landing with an awful, awful explosive (closer to a firecracker) effect.

Why didn't Sean argue with the writers? Why didn't he fight back?!
WHY!? WHY!? WHY!?


Maybe because he found it funny; I know I did. Personally - and I write as a gay man - I've always enjoyed the finale in DAF. Wint and Kidd are a hoot throughout the movie and the ending is perfectly in tune with their characters.

#49 RazorBlade

RazorBlade

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1248 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted 22 February 2007 - 08:34 AM

Throwing my 2 cents in again; DAF is a photo-Roger Moore bond but better than of them. Jill St. John did a great job and had great chemistry with Sir Sean. I didn't care too much for the soundtrack for this film, Sean may not have been the only one phoning his performance in.

#50 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 22 February 2007 - 02:58 PM

Thanks for the shrewd, insightful review. It's written so well I completely forgot what a terrible letdown the film was. I was transported to the land of stylish prose.


And thank you for the kind words, Dodge.

My formula is 2% talent/novel insight, 98% thesaurus.


My friend, you truly are one of the blessed. Not only do you have a 92" TV...you have a pet thesaurus?! I've seen Jurassic Park dozens of times, but darned if I can remember which one of the beasts was the thesaurus. I don't care--I want one too! Where did you get yours? How much do they cost? Are they are easy to house-train? Can they do cool tricks? Judo, my envy may eat me alive. Please help Dodge to get a thesaurus like yours!


I have nowhere to go with that one.


I'm shocked. You might have simply hip-thrown the pun that lay in waiting:

'Why, Dodge, I have a darling baby bronthesaurus.'

#51 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 22 February 2007 - 05:14 PM



But the choreography... oh, dear Lord. Connery, from behind, reaching between the legs of a gay waiter (who, because is he gay, would of course enjoy having his nuts squashed?? :cooltongue: ), flipping him into a perfect half-pike tumbling routine, finally sticking the landing with an awful, awful explosive (closer to a firecracker) effect.

Why didn't Sean argue with the writers? Why didn't he fight back?!
WHY!? WHY!? WHY!?


Maybe because he found it funny; I know I did. Personally - and I write as a gay man - I've always enjoyed the finale in DAF. Wint and Kidd are a hoot throughout the movie and the ending is perfectly in tune with their characters.


Funny like the slide whistle over the barrel roll is funny? Like JW Pepper is funny? Like a head-turning pigeon is funny?

I won

#52 00Twelve

00Twelve

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7706 posts
  • Location:Kingsport, TN

Posted 22 February 2007 - 06:37 PM

Kidd is scary too, though this because of his deplorable acting.

Not to mention the skullet.

#53 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 22 February 2007 - 07:00 PM

Kidd is scary too, though this because of his deplorable acting.

Not to mention the skullet.

:cooltongue: Yeah

#54 dee-bee-five

dee-bee-five

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2227 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 08:06 AM

[quote name='Judo chop' post='704839' date='22 February 2007 - 17:14'][quote name='dee-bee-five' post='704685' date='22 February 2007 - 01:38'][quote name='Judo chop' post='704523' date='21 February 2007 - 21:07']

But the choreography... oh, dear Lord. Connery, from behind, reaching between the legs of a gay waiter (who, because is he gay, would of course enjoy having his nuts squashed?? :cooltongue: ), flipping him into a perfect half-pike tumbling routine, finally sticking the landing with an awful, awful explosive (closer to a firecracker) effect.

Why didn't Sean argue with the writers? Why didn't he fight back?!
WHY!? WHY!? WHY!?[/quote]

Maybe because he found it funny; I know I did. Personally - and I write as a gay man - I've always enjoyed the finale in DAF. Wint and Kidd are a hoot throughout the movie and the ending is perfectly in tune with their characters.
[/quote]

Funny like the slide whistle over the barrel roll is funny? Like JW Pepper is funny? Like a head-turning pigeon is funny?

I won

#55 PrinceKamalKhan

PrinceKamalKhan

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11139 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:57 PM

Just out of curiosity, Publius. What is your favorite 1970s or "lighthearted" Bond film?

Hmm...tough question. I'd have to say either Live and Let Die or Golden Gun. Despite their flaws, I think dropping a young, much darker Roger Moore in various bizarre settings completely out of his element makes for some great, twisted fun. They may share some unfortunate similarities to Diamonds, but there's an energy and freshness in those two that I found sorely lacking in the other.



Really? That's interesting you didn't pick the usual answer a.k.a The Spy Who Loved Me. I'm actually rather impressed. As enjoyable as TSWLM indeed is, I respect independent thinkers. The Man with the Golden Gun does seem very similar in many ways to DAF. In some ways, TMWTGG is a slight improvement over its immediate 2 predecessors: TMWTGG does feature far more exotic locations than the 1st 2 1970s Bond films and has a far superior villain in Christopher Lee's Scaramanga.

#56 DanMan

DanMan

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 2009 posts
  • Location:The City That Never Sleeps

Posted 28 February 2007 - 04:34 AM

LALD and TMWTGG are great because their both bizaare and original action/adventure films, both unique in the Bond canon. TSWLM is really the first generic Bond flick which lends nothing new to the series and the first to recycle a plot from an earlier film.

#57 Taro Todoroki

Taro Todoroki

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 277 posts
  • Location:Columbus, Ga USA

Posted 28 February 2007 - 04:42 AM

DAF: Was it that bad? Yes-- and worse than DAD

Ummmm..............no.

#58 ChronoBreak

ChronoBreak

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 112 posts
  • Location:Pacific Northwest

Posted 28 February 2007 - 05:15 AM

LALD and TMWTGG are great because their both bizaare and original action/adventure films, both unique in the Bond canon. TSWLM is really the first generic Bond flick which lends nothing new to the series and the first to recycle a plot from an earlier film.


I agree completely. Definitely the first (and, perhaps, most lavish) "greatest hits package" of the series.

#59 mrsbonds_ppk

mrsbonds_ppk

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1297 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 02 March 2007 - 06:14 AM

Like I said in another topic; when I think about DAF it's always LOL. This movie is crazy/silly, but I enjoy it a lot. Is it bad?...Yes...Is it worse than DAD?...now that I think about it there equal, BUT..I'll give DAF the edge because I enjoy it more.

Bond: "Thank you very much." "I was just out walking my rat and seem to have lost my way..."

Plenty O'toole: "Hey, what the hell is this? A pervert's convention or something?"



#60 LadySylvia

LadySylvia

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1299 posts
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA

Posted 02 March 2007 - 05:24 PM

I have a low opinion of DAF, but I still like it, in a crazy way. It's fun. I like it a hell of a lot better than GF, which makes my skin crawl.