29 replies to this topic

[JimmyBond]

Let's not kid ourselves, Bond 22, no matter how impressively down to Earth and gritty the storyline is, will include action sequences that attempt to out-do those from CR (although a film with less action sequences is preferrable, I don't see Eon/Sony going that route).

With that in mind, how would you up the action? If you were in charge? Would you add more fight sequences and allow Craig's Bond to become more of a physical Bond? Or would you up the action sequences and give us more Brosnan style shoot outs? I know those are two extremes, but that's two extremes we've seen in the Bond films.

Personally I'd have Bond rely less on his firearm and more on his brute strength (that's what I want to see more out of the Craig series anyways), hopefully toning it down so much that we get action sequences where Bond will rely on his wits rather than how many bullets he can fire.

So, what do you think?

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I don't think it needs pumped up per se.

However, if there's going to be some big shoot-out for a finale, I'd really like to see Bond leading a team again or at least part of one. I think the raid on the docks and on st cyrills make for good examples (both are from FYEO obviously).

No rambo Bond...at least not for a long while.

[Zorin Industries]

I'm not sure pumping up the action quota is either on the agenda or something that would benefit BOND 22.

DIE ANOTHER DAY rivalled MOONRAKER for its physical excesses, yet was followed with the tamer, more subtle CASINO ROYALE.

I think ROYALE was a litmus test for EON - one they didn't even know they were trying out. With 9 BAFTA nominations, the biggest box office take for a 007 film and the sort of "okay we are prepared to like this one" praise usually reserved for the likes of Spielberg behind them I don't think EON are going to blow it now.

Besides, Barbara Broccoli is a 'character' inclined literary producer who would not pass on putting another less bombastic BOND film in the vein of ROYALE on the screen again.

[Judo chop]

This time Bond faces... THREE sumo wrestlers!

The midget can turn out to be Bond's ally at the last minute just when you think Bond is done for.

Seriously though, it's going to tough to up the ante. I do hope they continue to tout Craig as a hard-as-nails toughy Bond, using his brute force as you put it, but more especially using his mind in conjunction with his body ala the Madagascar chase, as well as that neat little up-the-stairs move he does in the airport to jump onto the moving truck. Basic stuff, but enough to move it past the point of predictability.

And obviously there will be more than one action scene, so there is room for firearm combat as well. In those instances, it'd be nice to see his training come through; I'd like to believe Bond is a better shot than most (TLD anyone?).

Edited by Judo chop, 13 February 2007 - 09:30 PM.

[00Twelve]

As long as the action sequences aren't conceived before the rest of the story, Bond 22 should be OK. You can usually tell when a film feels like the story came after the highlights were already set in stone. If I could have any personal preference for action in Bond 22, I'd love to see a good car chase (I mean a good car chase...hasn't really happened yet in Bond) along the lines of Ronin, Bourne, F.Conn, or Bullitt. I don't want to see too many action scenes, or that silly notion of having to have some action scene in every global location that is used in the movie. I'd also like to see that Bond can still be hurt. Like, a broken bone would be great.

[Roebuck]

Quality over quantity. Better one memorable action sequence per act than padding the film with the same old shoot outs and car chases.

[Harmsway]

Quality is the key here. BOND 22 shouldn't seek to outdo the action of CASINO ROYALE in terms of size (maybe in terms of tension and thrills, however). And furthermore, it would be best to avoid any extensive gunplay, unless the gunplay is very surgical and direct. I don't want showers of bullets everywhere for minutes on end.

Furthermore, if BOND 22's running time is 120 minutes (compared to ROYALE's 144 minutes), then BOND 22 should have one giant action scene less than ROYALE did.

Oh yeah, NO CAR CHASE. Over the past five Bond films, we've had a car chase (yes, CASINO ROYALE's was very brief, but it was still a car chase, and likeable purely because of its brevity). Car chases have been done to death in this franchise and others. Come up with more interesting sequences, please.

[JimmyBond]

Well, technically there wasnt a car chase in TWINE, but no one remembers that film, so it's ok if you overlooked it

I see what most of you are saying, about having less action sequences. But the very nature of this film being a sequel, I think there will be some pressure to outdo CR's action sequences, perhaps instead of having two big action sequences in the first act, they only have one, then have a series of smaller confrontations? Maybe some fist fights, or just plain foot chases?

Heck, why even follow a formula? Why not have just two action scenes? One in the teaser and one in the finale, that would work great. And when I say action I mean huge set pieces, we could still have some small confrontations (whether shoot outs or fist fights) over the course of the film. They have a chance to really shake things up a bit.

[Loomis]

Well, there are car chases and there are car chases, and I'd like to see a good one in BOND 22. You're not going to say that the car chase in TOMORROW NEVER DIES is as thrilling as the one in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY are you, Harmsway? It's how it's conceived and handled, after all.

I'd like something very much along the lines of C'ETAIT UN RENDEZVOUS, a film I mentioned here on CBn a while back:

[quote name='Loomis' post='473466' date='30 October 2005 - 13:20']C'ETAIT UN RENDEZVOUS (1976, directed by Claude Lelouch)

Think the Moscow car chase in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY is exciting, do yer? Wanna see something that makes it look like watching drying paint? Something that's like Grand Theft Auto played for real?

You know the scene in DRIVEN where Kip Pardue nicks a racing car and takes it shooting through city streets, pursued in another racing car by Sly Stallone, at every moment narrowly missing pedestrians and regular traffic? A sequence that was hooted at for being preposterously unrealistic, even by Stallone flick standards?

Well, truth is stranger than fiction, so they say, and someone did something very similar and filmed it. And that someone wasn't a Stallone-style action star or professional stunt driver, but, of all people, an arty French film director who apparently wanted to simultaneously test a new camera and a new Ferrari, mounting the former on the bonnet of the latter (resulting in a short film that's a single, unbroken take of nine minutes or so). On the evidence of RENDEZVOUS, he may also have been quite, quite mad. Don't try this at home. Or anywhere.

With the exception of a staged "surprise" ending clearly telegraphed by the title, everything in RENDEZVOUS was apparently done on a wing and a prayer, without any speeding up of film or editing tricks. There's been much debate over whether Lelouch and co. employed any movie magic to fool viewers into thinking this race at truly lunatic speed through the wide boulevards and narrow sidestreets of early morning Paris, barely dodging vehicles, buildings and passersby, considerably more death-defying than it actually was (as well as debate over whether Lelouch was arrested when the film was first shown, whether it's Lelouch or a Formula One driver behind the wheel, whether the police had a hand in making sure things went smoothly by blocking off streets, whether it isn't even a car at all but a motorbike, etc.), but if effects were used then we're talking JURASSIC PARK-level technical genius, many years ahead of the state of the art.

There's been a lot of talk over the years about RENDEZVOUS being a poignant document of a Paris that no longer exists (and the film trades on a romantic view of Frenchness that may never have existed in the first place - one chuckles as one imagines a policeman executing a Gallic shrug and tearing up the speeding ticket, saying to the driver: "But monsieur was going like a madman to meet a pretty girl? I quite understand - just don't do it again"). This talk, of course, has more than a slight air of "I buy Playboy for the articles". Let's be clear: RENDEZVOUS isn't KOYAANISQATSI. Its travelogue or documentary qualities are not what have made it a cult movie for decades. The draw is very simple: it's an edge-of-seat record of what must surely be one of the most insane and brilliant pieces of driving in history.

And, obviously, it's also morally indefensible. Surely no film should unbelievably flagrantly risk the lives not only of its makers but also of many innocent people? How on earth did Lelouch convince himself that this was even vaguely doable? And how did he persuade others to take part? One imagines that he was prepared to die, but what about those he might so easily have killed? What did he think his lawyers might have said at a hearing? "Ah, but Monsieur Lelouch was merely trying to push the boundaries of cin

[English Agent]

Let's not kid ourselves, Bond 22, no matter how impressively down to Earth and gritty the storyline is, will include action sequences that attempt to out-do those from CR (although a film with less action sequences is preferrable, I don't see Eon/Sony going that route).

With that in mind, how would you up the action? If you were in charge? Would you add more fight sequences and allow Craig's Bond to become more of a physical Bond? Or would you up the action sequences and give us more Brosnan style shoot outs? I know those are two extremes, but that's two extremes we've seen in the Bond films.

Personally I'd have Bond rely less on his firearm and more on his brute strength (that's what I want to see more out of the Craig series anyways), hopefully toning it down so much that we get action sequences where Bond will rely on his wits rather than how many bullets he can fire.

So, what do you think?

I agree with you 'Jimmy'................all i hope is that they don't end up with another final action scene
with a laser bearing space satelite for the umpteem time!!!!

[dodge]

In agreement with Loomis, I think the only real limits are the Dream Team's imagination and prowess. Car chases are a dime a dozen...until done in a new thrilling way, which gets harder and harder to find. But new ways are still there. Friedkin topped Bullitt once in the French Connection and then went to find in Jade--an otherwise prettty lousy film--a new way to do it. The car chase in Ronin was wild. The original Italian job came up with a new way. Etc. And Loomis' idea could be thrilling--world class, REAL stunt-driving seen through Bond's eyes.

Fight scene? A long, extended one would be great. Especially if Bond had the chance to use his wits as he did in CR's parkour scene. Find a new setting or a shifting and lethal terrain. Anything but excess gun play, which really ain't all that thrilling. We've had a couple of fights in enclosed spaces--FRWL, DAF, CR come to mind. Is there a possibility of a fight in a wide open space--where there's almost nowhere to run for a much bigger of faster appointment (who's either on foot or on wheels)?

These guys are well-enough paid to crack their noggins on these points and come up with new ways to surprise us. Less isn't necessarily more. Sometimes it's simply slacking off.

[JimmyBond]

These guys are well-enough paid to crack their noggins on these points and come up with new ways to surprise us. Less isn't necessarily more. Sometimes it's simply slacking off.

That's another great point. Looking at two Bond films which are chock full of action scenes:

Moonraker and Tomorrow Never Dies could be argued are more reliant on action sequences than actual story narrative. However one film feels more spaced out and flows better while the other is really fast. Of course MR is the slower one, why? Because while yes, it does have numerous action sequences, they are more innovative than just Bond outrunning bullets.

To add to what you said dodge: "As long as it's innovative, it doesnt matter how much there is. I'm not suggesting we have Bond jump from action scene to action scene, but if the producers actually give Bond interesting and dynamic action sequences, it won't hurt the film at all, no matter how many sequences we get.

[Ouroboros]

I'd like them do at least one chase, not necessarily a car chase, but something involving expensive vehicles going at unsafe speeds. But that's just because I have a soft spot for chase scenes.

As for the rest of the action sequences, while I think hand to hand is good, I'd like them to tone it down a bit. Hand to hand always seems passive to me, sort of like Bond is waiting for the other guy to attack him, which - though good spycraft - isn't really the way the Bond movies go. 00s, even post-reboot, seem more like one man Special Forces squadrons (thinking of American Special Forces or the SAS in particular...i.e. lots of observation, etc, but ultimately there to get something deadly done). So I'd like to see a good shootout as well.

Not necessarily a TND style OTT mini-war (although I do love TND), but something violent and semi-real, but still stylish...along the lines of Michael Mann's shoot-outs. But again, this is mostly just because I love shoot-outs.

Whatever they do, I think they should always make sure Bond has at least two action set-pieces, because I don't think the movies (or even really the books) have been about the gritty, ambiguous world of Covert Ops but more a sort of semi-realistic fantasy world of Cops and Robbers 2.0. And in the semi-realistic fantasy world of Cops and Robbers 2.0, people love characterization and good writing, but they also like to see stuff blow up.

[DaveBond21]

I agree that the Bond producers will want either the same amount of action, or more, in Bond 22, as there was in CR.

But I do find it very interesting, reading this thread, that we are all Bond fans, who loved CR, yet we have quite different ideas about Bond 22.

Interesting.

[Harmsway]

Well, there are car chases and there are car chases, and I'd like to see a good one in BOND 22. You're not going to say that the car chase in TOMORROW NEVER DIES is as thrilling as the one in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY are you, Harmsway? It's how it's conceived and handled, after all.

No, of course not. But I'd just like a break from the idea of a car chase, period. After all, they've not been featured in only Bond films, but also the BOURNE films (and they were done VERY well there). I'd rather they concentrated on a different kind of sequence and use their creative energies there.

Imagine Bond pursuing another driver (or, of course, being pursued) through city streets, late at night or early in the morning, and imagine watching it all pretty much through Bond's eyes (windscreen). No need for machine guns, or for rockets shooting from the cars, and no need to go crashing through Perrier delivery lorries or to even show any destruction. Just the white-knuckle thrill of buildings, vehicles and so on very narrowly missed at very high speed. A sequence in which the excitement lies in watching virtuoso daredevil driving, expertly pulled off, rather than in the usual explosions and cars flipping over.

Okay, I take it all back. That's kick-.

[Loomis]

Thanks. Have a look at RENDEZVOUS (quality not too good, but, hey, what do you expect from YouTube?) and you'll see exactly what I'm (ho ho) driving at.

[Loomis]

Watching CR on DVD yesterday, I was convinced that, in order to play to Craig's strengths and serve as a true sequel, BOND 22 must have less action. It must also be an even darker, more character- and atmosphere-driven effort, the THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK to CR's STAR WARS.

Now, precisely how they'd be able to top CR in the grittiness stakes without having Bond tortured or a heroine who kills herself, I've no idea. But now is not the time for turning back - it's the time for making the cinematic equivalent of Fleming's YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, with added angst. It's the time for making LICENCE TO KILL look like OCTOPUSSY.

[sharpshooter]

Totally agree Loomis. Every word of it.

[HawkEye007]

I think a good car chase, without weapons, would be goo for Bond 22. Maybe even get Craig onto motorcycle or something like that. A chase through busy London streets would work. Also I would like to see him lead some spec ops guys into battle, something like TB or TSWLM.

[avl]

Watching CR on DVD yesterday, I was convinced that, in order to play to Craig's strengths and serve as a true sequel, BOND 22 must have less action. It must also be an even darker, more character- and atmosphere-driven effort, the THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK to CR's STAR WARS.

Now, precisely how they'd be able to top CR in the grittiness stakes without having Bond tortured or a heroine who kills herself, I've no idea. But now is not the time for turning back - it's the time for making the cinematic equivalent of Fleming's YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, with added angst. It's the time for making LICENCE TO KILL look like OCTOPUSSY.

How about they kill M and Bond is to blame/blames himself.

[Loomis]

Watching CR on DVD yesterday, I was convinced that, in order to play to Craig's strengths and serve as a true sequel, BOND 22 must have less action. It must also be an even darker, more character- and atmosphere-driven effort, the THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK to CR's STAR WARS.

Now, precisely how they'd be able to top CR in the grittiness stakes without having Bond tortured or a heroine who kills herself, I've no idea. But now is not the time for turning back - it's the time for making the cinematic equivalent of Fleming's YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, with added angst. It's the time for making LICENCE TO KILL look like OCTOPUSSY.

How about they kill M and Bond is to blame/blames himself.

Could be. After Dench's long presence in the series, and her importance to CASINO ROYALE (I'd argue that it's only in CR that her character truly has a memorable role, although I confess I'm rather stumped at articulating precisely what it is), her death would have real impact. I do feel that Craig's Bond needs to be psychologically beaten up on even more in 22, stripped of his powers in some way. Think Fleming's YOLT, people, Fleming's YOLT. Craig's journey towards The Bond We All Know And Love™ needs to be a long one, taking up at least one more film.

(I've always liked the idea of a team of fellow Double-Os sent after Bond on the basis of false and malicious intelligence [provided, perhaps, by Villiers], although perhaps it would risk seeming a bit BOURNE IDENTITY. Make a nice little subplot, though. Or was it done in one of the Gardners?)

[Mike00spy]

I also want to see a brutal, tense fight scene in the pouring rain... at night.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I'd like to see Bond at some sorto of Expo in Buenas Aires or Barcelona and all hell breaks loose...Bond has to 'borrow' a formula car on display and chase a villian on a Ducatti/race bike in the city ah la NSNA but racheted up a thousand fold...Zencat's shatterhand chase comes to mind as well...imagine a formula car going 160-200 down a crowed street like the Monte carlo grand prix...could be fun. Down to earth style Bond can still be spectacular.

And more gritty fights against expert opponents; a paramilitary mission in the beginging of the film thrown in as well.

[MarcAngeDraco]

(although a film with less action sequences is preferrable, I don't see Eon/Sony going that route).

Agreed... and unfortunately agreed.

[tdalton]

I'm not in favor of them pumping up the action in Bond 22 at all. I think that they need to scale it back. If they're going to have more action sequences, then I'd rather see more hand-to-hand combat in the next one, rather than just a set piece here that was shoe-horned into the story or a set-piece there featuring ridiculous looking CGI.

As much as I love Casino Royale, the free-running sequence could have either been shorter or not even there at all, and it wouldn't have bothered me one bit. They need to scale it back from what was in Casino Royale and make the next film a very, very, very dark film.

[Ace Roberts]

I've always been intrigued by suspense filled cat & mouse chases in the dark - like the opening of From Russia With Love - or classic Alfred Hitchcock moments like To Catch A Thief. I would like to see an extended chase sequence that has Bond moving from rooftops to underground sewers while pursued by large numbers of bad guys. He must use both the art of deception as well as his athlletic ability to escape getting caught. This would not be the adrenaline filled pursuit like CR - rather one filled with cat-like quietness and heart pounding suspense. I know this has been done a lot - but with some forethought and Eon's knack of class action sequences - this could really be an exciting moment in the series.

[00Twelve]

I think they should aim high in terms of prolific action sequences. Not just big stunts, but scenes that could be counted among cinema's greatest. A car chase comparable to Bullitt, for example. Or a cat & mouse chase comparable to French Connection.

[marktmurphy]

Well, there are car chases and there are car chases, and I'd like to see a good one in BOND 22. You're not going to say that the car chase in TOMORROW NEVER DIES is as thrilling as the one in THE BOURNE SUPREMACY are you, Harmsway? It's how it's conceived and handled, after all.

Oh I'd say that the TND one was the best Bond has given us so far, with perhaps FYEO coming second- it's a lovely tight little scene; hardly a classic car chase at all, really. Supremacy was a big epic thing and was excellent- at the moment I'd say all time best car chase, actually (still not sure about Bullitt; it's utterly meaningless plot-wise).

I'd like something very much along the lines of C'ETAIT UN RENDEZVOUS, a film I mentioned here on CBn a while back

Hmm. Rendezvous. Have you never noticed that the car actually isn't going that fast? Certainly not as fast as the engine seems to think it is, going by the noise. Almost as if the engine noise has been dubbed on afterwards, in fact...
Compare with similar bumper-mounted shots from Ronin for example, and you'll see he's not going all that.

I'd like to see some good driving in a Bond; it's like in Ronin, rather than be all showy and drift the cars wildly, back end going everywhere, they drift the cars properly- that's to say they're set up perfectly in line with the bend, just as an expert driver would do. That gives much more of a thrill than watching two cars sliding around on an expanse of obstacle-less ice.

[Harmsway]

[quote name='Loomis' post='715439' date='20 March 2007 - 06:46']Watching CR on DVD yesterday, I was convinced that, in order to play to Craig's strengths and serve as a true sequel, BOND 22 must have less action. It must also be an even darker, more character- and atmosphere-driven effort, the THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK to CR's STAR WARS.

Now, precisely how they'd be able to top CR in the grittiness stakes without having Bond tortured or a heroine who kills herself, I've no idea. But now is not the time for turning back - it's the time for making the cinematic equivalent of Fleming's YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, with added angst. It's the time for making LICENCE TO KILL look like OCTOPUSSY.[/quote]
I'd love that. If there's any point at which a YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE-like film would work, it's now. And I imagine CASINO ROYALE has emboldened EON with this direction, so BOND 22 will probably take it the direction that much further.

BOND 22 already has a dark set-up. I tend to think it's going to play out like a gritty version of DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER's pre-title sequence - Bond's out for blood and vengeance. Furthermore, he's going to find out that Vesper's boyfriend was a baddie. Can you imagine the pain he's going to want to inflict on him?

[quote name='Loomis' post='715477' date='20 March 2007 - 08:56']I do feel that Craig's Bond needs to be psychologically beaten up on even more in 22, stripped of his powers in some way. Think Fleming's YOLT, people, Fleming's YOLT. Craig's journey towards The Bond We All Know And Love

[Byron]

And more gritty fights against expert opponents; a paramilitary mission in the beginging of the film thrown in as well.
[/quote]

I like your idea Tarl, to take it further, Craig doing a commando style raid in camouflage gear. Or something along the lines of Connery's infiltration of Largo's beach house in Thunderball (always found that "sneaking around" aspect of the films and novels entertaining and Craig did it well in CR, specifically staging the car crash to gain access to the security room in the Bahamas).

I would also like to see Craig using a sniper rifle or possibly a proper Sniper to Sniper duel (not quite what we got in TLD).