56 replies to this topic

[Bryce (003)]

OK, snide remarks aside, I'll weigh in on this. Hopefully without being a bastard.

As a man of the world who has only had four serious relationships with four amazing women, I've always put my cards on the table. If the girls don't or haven't or thought they could alter the "rules of poker", well, your loss.

Rule 1: No married women. Seperated for a year plus or filing for divorce? I want to see the papers. It's LA and this kind of thing can end up in the tabloids or in front of a judge or at the wrong end of a barrel.

Rule 2: Relationship vs. playmate. Again, cards on the table. So bloody tired of the girls who think "Hey, if I put out, I can change his mind". At 39 and, Hell, even at 29, that isn't going to happen. Yeah, things can change, but once the terms are set on a fling, that's how it is.

Rule 3: Sex. Well, isn't that what it's about? Men like it. Women like it. If you can agree on it being just that, then why the Hell not?

Doesn't mean you can't dote or be affectionate.

I'm protective of the women I'm with, equally of those who are friends, doting if need be and always concerned for their well being.

Anyone looking for "Happily Ever after"? I'll buy a copy of Grimm's for.

I respect women and their hopes, dreams, desire, but I have terms, much like Bond, and those are the way I live my life.

Only had one "fatal attraction", but it was dealt with.

Miss Bellucci and I get it. My Muses get it. Others have come to understand it. If they're bitter, it's their problem.

Disposible? Never.

Pursuit? Always.

As the song goes "Funny how it always goes with love, when you don't look, you find."

*runs and hides as pitch-forks and torches of the ladies beat on the doors of Casa Bryce*

[Pam Bouvier]

I have been silently monitoring this thread, with mild amusement, for a time. I realise my presence may be much like that of a woman entering Blades in the '50's (unwelcome &a bit unnerving ), but I trust such men of the world are gentlemen enough to indulge a lady, who sincerely holds them all in very high regard?
I wonder, if I may make one or two, humble inquires?

1. Bryce, I truly enjoyed reading your rules of the game, so to speak. I wonder, do these rules effect your pursuit of women that are signficantly younger than yourself? I ask, because many young women are inexperienced women. when one is twenty, having a man "lay his cards on the table" can very well be taken as a challenge, to be "the one", as they say, to truly win the man's heart.

Guys, beware, just because a young girl acts like she knows the game, most don't. A man of the world,in my humble opinion, as an obligation to keep that in mind (as well as keep it in his pa-..well, to keep other things out of harmsway )

2. Have any of you been in a situation where the shoes was on the other foot? In other words, you were the one being looked upon as the "disposable pleasure" or "worthwhile pursuit"? If so, how did that work for you?


3. One last question, for those of you that are fathers
of girls. Have you versed your daughters in the rules of the game, or discussed said rules with your daughter's love interests? As a father, do you feel good about your daughter being viewed in these terms?

Inquiring minds would like to know

Edited by Pam Bouvier, 15 January 2007 - 11:10 PM.

[Four Aces]

OK, snide remarks aside, I'll weigh in on this. Hopefully without being a bastard.

As a man of the world who has only had four serious relationships with four amazing women, I've always put my cards on the table. If the girls don't or haven't or thought they could alter the "rules of poker", well, your loss.

Great rules. As I have mentioned before, great minds think like mine. Others not so great, don't

Rule 1: No married women. Seperated for a year plus or filing for divorce? I want to see the papers. It's LA and this kind of thing can end up in the tabloids or in front of a judge or at the wrong end of a barrel.

Excellent, look at the papers. There are many women that won't release from one relationship until they have a grip on the next one.

Rule 2: Relationship vs. playmate. Again, cards on the table. So bloody tired of the girls who think "Hey, if I put out, I can change his mind". At 39 and, Hell, even at 29, that isn't going to happen. Yeah, things can change, but once the terms are set on a fling, that's how it is.

And watch out if they accept the terms, and then cry foul.

Rule 3: Sex. Well, isn't that what it's about? Men like it. Women like it. If you can agree on it being just that, then why the Hell not? Doesn't mean you can't dote or be affectionate.

No. Men love sex, women like sex. Women love being in love. Men like being in love

I'm protective of the women I'm with, equally of those who are friends, doting if need be and always concerned for their well being.

Anyone who describes himself as a gentleman should employ the above standard.

Disposible? Never.

Pursuit? Always.

Great minds think like mine

Great post 003

[Four Aces]

...

1. ...I wonder, do these rules effect your pursuit of women that are signficantly younger than yourself? I ask, because many young women are inexperienced women. when one is twenty, having a man "lay his cards on the table" can very well be taken as a challenge, to be "the one", as they say, to truly win the man's heart...

Pam,

Just so you know, all is not what it appears to be with older men and younger women relationships. I'll let you in on a little secret, the male peers of these older men usually look down on them if they have a younger wife or girlfriend. It is perceived as an unequal relationship. It's like the guys in college who went trolling for dates at the local high school, or college professors who marry their coeds, or otherwise just have relationships with them.

These men tend to think they are special because they have a younger woman, and these women tend to think they are more mature because they have attracted an older man. There are some exceptions, but for the most part, the whole thing is considered a joke, at least by most in my age group who have had any success in life. Kinda like Trump's marriage to whoever that youngling is...a joke.

So BACK ON TOPIC, what do you think is Vesper's motivation in asking Bond the question(s)?

[erniecureo]

Guys, beware, just because a young girl acts like she knows the game, most don't. A man of the world,in my humble opinion, as an obligation to keep that in mind (as well as keep it in his pa-..well, to keep other things out of harmsway )

Sorry, but I can't agree. I refuse to be responsible for someone else's wishful thinking. I know it sounds harsh, but there it is. On the other hand, when it becomes obvious that the person in question (male or female) is more invested than he or she should be, then I would say a reiteration of the conditions is certainly in order. And if the deluded person still clings to the dream of a future, then it's time to break it off and go looking for a more like-minded partner. Who wants to be with a "clinger," anyway?

2. Have any of you been in a situation where the shoes was on the other foot? In other words, you were the one being looked upon as the "disposable pleasure" or "worthwhile pursuit"? If so, how did that work for you?

Um, yes. My only complaint with being a disposable pleasure was that I didn't know this was the situation until too late! Had I been so informed at the outset, I'd have been much more relaxed, and would have enjoyed it much more. Trouble is, what she told me vs. what she really wanted were two separate things--so I kept banging into contradictions between what she said and what she did. I can only surmise that her lack of honesty was her way of avoiding being labeled a "bad" girl. Interestingly, by the time I figured out that she was only interested in sex, I was ready to bail out anyway. The sex was okay, but we were so incompatible in so many other ways, it didn't seem worth it to maintain the relationship, such as it was.

3. One last question, for those of you that are fathers
of girls. Have you versed your daughters in the rules of the game, or discussed said rules with your daughter's love interests? As a father, do you feel good about your daughter being viewed in these terms?

I don't have kids, but if I had a daughter, I'd try to raise her so that by the time she reached dating (or sexual activity) age, she saw herself as rersponsible for her own decisions, with an understanding of her own worth, compassion for others, and an internal compass that relied less on what society or people thought, and more on what she thought. In other words, I'd hope that if she wanted to date casually or pursue a long-term relationship, she could do either and not feel like she had to explain or defend her choices to anyone. How's that? (And by the way, I know it's easier said than done!)

[Santa]

This is turning into a rather interesting discussion. The main thing I'd like to point out here that everything said here about women also applies to men, in my experience. Bryce and Pam's posts could both be reversed, if you see what I mean. Just thought I'd mention it...

[Pam Bouvier]

4Aces, very much agree with your statements on inequity. Point taken.


As for Vesper's comment, I thought at the time, it was a rebuff.
I thought the conversation was her way of letting Bond know this was business & nothing more.

santajosep, I couldn't agree with you more .

Actually, I am married to some one who is 14 years older than myself. However, the bloom was off the flower, so to speak, when we met.

I just think sometimes men assume because a young woman (and I mean young 20ish) can talk the talk she has walked the walk. As mature as a young lady may appear, there often is a hugh difference in life experience between 20 and 40.

You all have been really gracious with your responses. Please keep them coming. It's always nice to sneak into Blades every now and again and see how the "other half" views the ways of the world .
Thanks for indulging me.

Edited by Pam Bouvier, 16 January 2007 - 02:23 AM.

[Bryce (003)]

...I wonder, if I may make one or two, humble inquires?

Always darling.

1. Bryce, I truly enjoyed reading your rules of the game, so to speak. I wonder, do these rules effect your pursuit of women that are signficantly younger than yourself? I ask, because many young women are inexperienced women. when one is twenty, having a man "lay his cards on the table" can very well be taken as a challenge, to be "the one", as they say, to truly win the man's heart.

Point taken. Age is never an issue with myself. Attraction is attraction. I've met girls who have poise, knowledge and experience well beyond their years. I've also met girls with dillusional attitudes about life, love and sex. Trademark being they are in their 30's, live at home (having never lived anywhere else) and have no life experience.

Bryce rule #4: You better own a car and know how to drive.

I met a girl in London who was 23 going on 50 in terms of her attitude, station in life and, of the many things that clicked between us, was her attitude of "men don't get it". We still exchange emails. Yes, younger girls sometimes do take it as a challenge and do think they "know better" or can manipulate a man with sex, but that's youth. I have no guilt for my actions. Past or present.

Guys, beware, just because a young girl acts like she knows the game, most don't. A man of the world,in my humble opinion, has an obligation to keep that in mind (as well as keep it in his pa-..well, to keep other things out of harmsway )

Agreed and yes, you young gents, keep this tidbit in mind.

2. Have any of you been in a situation where the shoes was on the other foot? In other words, you were the one being looked upon as the "disposable pleasure" or "worthwhile pursuit"? If so, how did that work for you?

What happens in Vegas, STAYS in Vegas....and, no, I have no problem with this. It can work both ways. As long as the "cards" are on the table, dresser, floor, sofa, bathtub, over the sofa, the night stand etc., there isn't a problem.

Inquiring minds would like to know

Now they know in terms of 003. Just sayin'

[Pam Bouvier]

Got to think of some clever repartee, here, guys. Although, I must say I am still laughing at Bryce's last comments.


Give me a sec, here

[Pam Bouvier]

Alright, drink is in hand, Phil Collins CD is playing. I am back.

You must excuse the romantic in me. But, hey, grand passion has it's place (and by the way, I forget who said men love sex & women love being in love a few posts back, but, I must disagree. Women love sex as much as you guys do. There are just more serious considerations for us the next morning if, ah, "precautions" weren't followed, so many of us are a little choosey about these situations).

However,as much as we ALL enjoy the chase, guys,doesn't it get, well old? So many women, so many lines, soooooooooooo many ...well, so many??

Edited by Pam Bouvier, 16 January 2007 - 03:14 AM.

[Pam Bouvier]

For the Doctor:

Bryce, FYI, whenI said earlier I was laughed regarding your post, I hope you know, I meant that this topic in general is something I find very amusing. Just dawned on me it might have sounded a bit rude. Did NOT mean it that way at all!

Discussing grand passion with you is a great pleasure!

[Athena007]

The main thing I'd like to point out here that everything said here about women also applies to men, in my experience.

Exactly! I've been avoiding posting in here again as a number of things being said are irking the hell out of me. But your response is perfect and way better put and condensed than I was "drafting" out.

[Bryce (003)]

Oh, by all means!

Athena, santajosep, you're completely right! It has always been both ways. Anyone thinking otherwise is in my "dillusional" or "psycho chick" catagory.

So, what have we determined? Bond girls and Bond guys think the same.

Wish the rest of the world would.

[mccartney007]

There's a theme running through this thread that bothers me, which is the acceptance of certain "givens" regarding the definition of "class," "respect," etc.

For me, a "disposable pleasure" is no less a pleasure. Equating "disposable pleasure" and "any woman will do" is like saying there's no difference between cordon bleu cuisine and McDonald's--because the food at each has a shelf life. Huh?

This whole "disposable pleasure" vs. "worthwhile pursuit" discussion points out, to me, the frustrating double standard women have to work with.

Some people, it seems, equate casual sex with a lack of respect, or class. Huh? I say that if two consenting adults wish to engage in sexual congress, no one has the right to define that liaison. How is the sex magically more acceptable if the two are married to each other? Or in a committed relationship?

What's interesting to me is that the woman is perceived as losing something if she engages in a one-night stand. The cause-and-effect of this (at least in the US) is that women are taught that sex somehow demeans them unless it has meaning other than simple pleasure (i.e., commitment, a future, etc.) As a result, they assign a higher value to their "virtue," and resolve not to "give it up" easily.

What happens? Men regard this as a challenge. The result is that the "virtue" becomes the sole point of the chase, and the woman is objectified--exactly the result that women were trying to avoid in the first place.

As for Bond, he doesn't strike me as a "player." Even in his short-term liaisons, he thinks well of the women he's with. There is none of the loathing or disgust that we see so much of in today's society. (Look at the college cretins in Borat: They epitomize this sexual loathing in its most virulent form.)

Bond likes women, they like him, they have sex. Who cares?

I'll close by saying that the thing that drives me crazy about US culture is its obsession with (and categorization of) sex. Everybody does it, folks. And everybody likes it. So what's the big deal?

Excellent post, ec! Very well said.

[mccartney007]

Point taken. Age is never an issue with myself. Attraction is attraction. I've met girls who have poise, knowledge and experience well beyond their years. I've also met girls with dillusional attitudes about life, love and sex. Trademark being they are in their 30's, live at home (having never lived anywhere else) and have no life experience.

Exactly. Attraction is attraction and sometimes that can surprise the hell out of you. When you make a connection with someone why should you deprive yourself of something that works (or may work) just because of certain people's hangups over stupid issues like age, race, gender, etc.

Guys, beware, just because a young girl acts like she knows the game, most don't. A man of the world,in my humble opinion, has an obligation to keep that in mind (as well as keep it in his pa-..well, to keep other things out of harmsway )

In all fairness, the same could be said about older folks as well. There are a great number of people out there old enough to know the rules of the game and how to play that, frankly, have no idea about it. It's hard to have a sense of responsibility about something when you can't be sure which cards you've been dealt.

2. Have any of you been in a situation where the shoes was on the other foot? In other words, you were the one being looked upon as the "disposable pleasure" or "worthwhile pursuit"? If so, how did that work for you?

Actually, I've been in these situations more times than I can probably remember. They worked out fine at first as I'm a firm believer in the "love does not equate sex and sex does not equate love" philosophy. It didn't work out well as the "predators" of the relationships soon became the ones with hearts dancing in their eyes.

[Bryce (003)]

Actually, I've been in these situations more times than I can probably remember. They worked out fine at first as I'm a firm believer in the "love does not equate sex and sex does not equate love" philosophy. It didn't work out well as the "predators" of the relationships soon became the ones with hearts dancing in their eyes.

Damn Right!

Well said Sir Paul.

[erniecureo]

I'd like to point out here that everything said here about women also applies to men, in my experience.

Couldn't agree more. I guess that's what I've been trying to say...let's get rid of the double standard!

I've been avoiding posting in here again as a number of things being said are irking the hell out of me.

Interesting, Athena...I for one would like to know what irks you, and why.

As to the assessment that older man/younger woman relationships are viewed as a joke by the male's peers, I'd have to disagree. Some may do so, but often there's an undercurrent of jealousy running through the disapproval.

Just as we make fun of the middle-aged guy with a Corvette, we pick on the older guy with his younger girlfriend. In both cases, I see a guy who has done nothing more than delay his gratification. He's in a position to enjoy the finer things in life, so who am I to begrudge him that? If a 65-year-old prefers to be with a 23-year-old, so what?

In Europe and Asia, this is much more accepted--and, I think, rightfully so. After all, to criticize a relationship like this from afar is a form of prejudice, no? Would it be acceptable to look down on a black man with a white girl, question his motives, call him a "joke?" I don't think so.

As to the inequity of May-September relationships, I'd reply that almost all relationships are unequal. One or the other partner almost always holds the upper hand, whether emotionally, sexually, financially, etc. It's the way the world is, and it's foolish to pretend it isn't so.

That being said, if you find the mythical "equal" relationship, I advise you to take whatever steps are necessary to keep it--you've hit the jackpot!

I enjoy these conversations, for the peek it allows us into the other gender's pysche. I may not always agree with posters' comments, but they're never boring...

[Athena007]

I've been avoiding posting in here again as a number of things being said are irking the hell out of me.

Interesting, Athena...I for one would like to know what irks you, and why.

If I addressed every point individually there might be the longest rant in CBn history. So I'm going to try this and be done with it. This was already said but this thread is full of "men do this and women do this." Well, first off I think everything in this thread can be reversed to represent the other gender as well.

Basically it seems like a lot of things being said in this thread are being said as definites. But that simply isn't true. Not all women act or understand life a certain way and not all men either. Not all younger women/older men or younger men/older women relationships are for sure the way they've been portrayed here. As well things being said about people of a certain age (20's, 30's, etc) only know so much of the world. I think the things in this thread can be placed on SOME men and SOME women. But no... I don't believe at all that this is how everyone is or everyone thinks. Everything said in this thread is circumstantial.

[Four Aces]

Dang!

Interesting how Vesper's interrogatory of Bond could raise such passions amongst us. Just more evidence of a good script

I wonder if the general audiences who saw the film even gave a second thought to Vesper's questions.

Uh, maybe we think too much

[dodge]

I've been avoiding posting in here again as a number of things being said are irking the hell out of me.

Interesting, Athena...I for one would like to know what irks you, and why.

If I addressed every point individually there might be the longest rant in CBn history. So I'm going to try this and be done with it. This was already said but this thread is full of "men do this and women do this." Well, first off I think everything in this thread can be reversed to represent the other gender as well.

Basically it seems like a lot of things being said in this thread are being said as definites. But that simply isn't true. Not all women act or understand life a certain way and not all men either. Not all younger women/older men or younger men/older women relationships are for sure the way they've been portrayed here. As well things being said about people of a certain age (20's, 30's, etc) only know so much of the world. I think the things in this thread can be placed on SOME men and SOME women. But no... I don't believe at all that this is how everyone is or everyone thinks. Everything said in this thread is circumstantial.

Yeah, we all get circumstantialized, life being what it is. But one thing's a far better than average bet. The real magic, the kind that counts, has lots less to do with tricks or strategies or gimmicks...than with the powerful spell that is cast when somebody's eyes say 'I'm lookin' at you.

[Bon-san]

1. Worthwhile pursuit?...or...

2. Disposable pleasure?

I just saw the movie again, and this question asked by Vesper caught my attention. This brings me to subject of the varieties of womanizers. The overwhelming majority these days would select the second option, as I opine they are classless. The sophisticated and discriminating playboy would select the first option.

Well, speaking for sophisticated and discriminating playboys everywhere...


Oh, who am I kidding.


BTW, excellent commentary erniecureo.

[Athena007]

I've been avoiding posting in here again as a number of things being said are irking the hell out of me.

Interesting, Athena...I for one would like to know what irks you, and why.

If I addressed every point individually there might be the longest rant in CBn history. So I'm going to try this and be done with it. This was already said but this thread is full of "men do this and women do this." Well, first off I think everything in this thread can be reversed to represent the other gender as well.

Basically it seems like a lot of things being said in this thread are being said as definites. But that simply isn't true. Not all women act or understand life a certain way and not all men either. Not all younger women/older men or younger men/older women relationships are for sure the way they've been portrayed here. As well things being said about people of a certain age (20's, 30's, etc) only know so much of the world. I think the things in this thread can be placed on SOME men and SOME women. But no... I don't believe at all that this is how everyone is or everyone thinks. Everything said in this thread is circumstantial.

Yeah, we all get circumstantialized, life being what it is. But one thing's a far better than average bet. The real magic, the kind that counts, has lots less to do with tricks or strategies or gimmicks...than with the powerful spell that is cast when somebody's eyes say 'I'm lookin' at you.

Quite true indeed! I compleatly agree.

[erniecureo]

Well said, Athena. I agree.

As far as being circumstantialized, once was enough. Thank God I was just a baby when the doctors did it, so I don't remember anything...

[dodge]

Well said, Athena. I agree.

As far as being circumstantialized, once was enough. Thank God I was just a baby when the doctors did it, so I don't remember anything...

It's very painful, Ernie, as I pointed out. My own operation was done in the odd little town of Kinders. Which is why I've come to say, along with Tennessee Williams:

I have always relied on the strangeness of Kinders.

[Four Aces]

Well said, Athena. I agree.

As far as being circumstantialized, once was enough. Thank God I was just a baby when the doctors did it, so I don't remember anything...

Okay, now that was pretty funny, LMAO!

[kaloushilabops]

All I know is that if I were sitting on that train with him, having a little sizing up debate, drinking wine, eating lamb, exotic locale, looking fabulous....Algerian love knot or not....I'd want to have Bond. yup

[punkinpuss]

Erm, actually the phrase that Vesper uses is "meaningful pursuit" not "worthwhile pursuit" -- which may or may not suggest different things to different people.

Whether Bond finds (or seeks) meaning in the pursuit of any woman doesn't negate the fact that the sum of all his conquests/relationships do affect him, whether he realizes it or not. Same for the killings.

And the annoying thing about people is that sometimes they surprise you and boom, disposable pleasure becomes meaningful pursuit. And vice versa. Or meaningful pleasure. Or pleasurable disposal. Don't mind me, I'm just babbling.

As long as we continue to see Human!Bond in future installments, whatever he does (heartbroken romantic or coldhearted cad) will be worth watching and thinking about.