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Vesper


18 replies to this topic

#1 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:16 AM

Casino Royale was Bond's first mission.

And to me, that means that the other actors who played Bond, and their adventures all followed the events of this one.

Therefore, I think, that whenever Bond sees a woman drowning, he will get flashbacks of Vesper. In particular, I now see the speed with which he runs to save Tracy in the PTS of OHMSS in a new light.

He also saves women from drowning in the following situations:-

Saves Anya in TSWLM
Saves Christmas Jones in TWINE, in the submarine
Saves Jinx when the Ice Palace in DAD

And from now on, when I watch these scenes, I will imagine that he has flashbacks of Vesper.


Anyone else agree?

#2 Santa

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:19 AM

I'd need a fair amount to drink first

#3 PrinceKamalKhan

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:23 AM

Casino Royale was Bond's first mission.

And to me, that means that the other actors who played Bond, and their adventures all followed the events of this one.

Therefore, I think, that whenever Bond sees a woman drowning, he will get flashbacks of Vesper. In particular, I now see the speed with which he runs to save Tracy in the PTS of OHMSS in a new light.

He also saves women from drowning in the following situations:-

Saves Anya in TSWLM
Saves Christmas Jones in TWINE, in the submarine
Saves Jinx when the Ice Palace in DAD

And from now on, when I watch these scenes, I will imagine that he has flashbacks of Vesper.


Anyone else agree?


Interesting point, DaveBond21. According to the Fleming novels, the casino Bond meets Tracy at in On Her Majesty's Secret Service is Royale and he had had Vesper on his mind when he first saw Tracy because he was visiting Vesper's grave. Now, I will believe this in the film version as well. Vesper will haunt 007 the rest of his life. Another reason, Bond will look even more idiotic getting all weepy over Elektra in The World is not Enough.

#4 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:26 AM

Interesting point, DaveBond21



Thanks.

To me, all the Bond movies have James Bond in them, and all of them had Vesper. And all the ones from OHMSS-DAD had been married to Tracy, albeit briefly.

#5 Santa

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:29 AM

I entirely understand what you mean, I just can't do it when I'm watching them. Completely beyond my tiny brain.

#6 Turn

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:36 AM

He also saves women from drowning in the following situations:-

Saves Anya in TSWLM
Saves Christmas Jones in TWINE, in the submarine
Saves Jinx when the Ice Palace in DAD

And from now on, when I watch these scenes, I will imagine that he has flashbacks of Vesper.


Anyone else agree?

Don't forget he also saved Wai Lin at the end of TND and, indirectly, Melina in FYEO. He kind of had the opposite reaction with Bambi and Thumper in DAF, though.

Interesting way of looking at it.

#7 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:38 AM

Don't forget he also saved Wai Lin at the end of TND and, indirectly, Melina in FYEO. He kind of had the opposite reaction with Bambi and Thumper in DAF, though.

Interesting way of looking at it.



Ah, yes, thanks for those reminders.

#8 Judo chop

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:46 AM

I'd need a fair amount to drink first

pour me one too.

#9 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:48 AM

I'd need a fair amount to drink first

pour me one too.



Are you happy for Bond to have Vesper in the back of his mind in Bond 22, though?

#10 Judo chop

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:02 AM

I'd need a fair amount to drink first

pour me one too.



Are you happy for Bond to have Vesper in the back of his mind in Bond 22, though?


Didn't mean to totally diss your post, DB21, but I don't think I'll ever be able to watch old Bond films and think of CR's Vesper. But to answer your question, yes, I think so. I wouldn't want it to be a prominent feature and certainly not a plotline. (is 'plotline' a word? I'm on beer #4 now.)

I could see something along the lines of Bond and XXX in TSWLM, when XXX mentions Bond's ex-wife and Bond gets sensitive. I'd like there to be a moment during which Bond is reminded of Vesper's death (or even more specifically drowning) to give Craig a chance to show some more of his acting chops. I think Bond 22 should hinge heavily on CR in many ways, and a rememberance of Vesper scene could be done very, very well by Craig.

So, yes. Let's see the hurt in Bond next film. :cooltongue:

#11 Shadow Syndicate

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:07 AM

Im sorry, makes sense but i cant imagine 69 Laz having flashbacks to 2006

#12 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:10 AM

Some good discussions here.


To me, the producers made a movie to show Bond's origins. We see how he becomes a 00, but we also how his character became shaped. I think they wanted to show us why Bond can never be with a woman long-term (except, he thought, Tracy), and so all the other Bonds had Vesper in their past, even before this latest movie was made, just as it's a known fact he is an orphan - and not just in GE and CR (the movies where it's mentioned).

#13 Judo chop

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:17 AM

Some good discussions here.


To me, the producers made a movie to show Bond's origins. We see how he becomes a 00, but we also how his character became shaped. I think they wanted to show us why Bond can never be with a woman long-term (except, he thought, Tracy), and so all the other Bonds had Vesper in their past, even before this latest movie was made, just as it's a known fact he is an orphan - and not just in GE and CR (the movies where it's mentioned).


I agree with you, but somehow I tend to separate the general character of Bond from the cinematic Bond. Yes, of course Sean Connery played a Bond that was who he was because of Vesper; Ian first wrote Vesper, which set up the Bond in Dr. No, which inspired the film of 1962. There is a connection.
But, to go directly from the screen Vesper to Moore's feelings of being drowned with a woman dragged underwater in FYEO... I lose the connection. Know what I mean?

#14 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:27 AM

But, to go directly from the screen Vesper to Moore's feelings of being drowned with a woman dragged underwater in FYEO... I lose the connection. Know what I mean?



Yes, I see what you mean... :cooltongue:

#15 neversaynever

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:30 AM

Just as well you put this in spoilers, because you wouldn't want to give away a key plot point: say, in the heading of this thread, when it appears in the main forums page?

:cooltongue:

#16 DaveBond21

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:33 AM

Just as well you put this in spoilers, because you wouldn't want to give away a key plot point: say, in the heading of this thread, when it appears in the main forums page?


Yes, I know, I am sorry.


I am not the only one to have done this. I remember seeing spoilers listed on the main forum, before the movie was released.

I was also hoping that most Bond fans have seen the movie by now.

But at the same time, I didn't know how else to title this thread, and get the attention I wanted devoted to it.



Sorry... :cooltongue:

#17 Judo chop

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:34 AM

Vesper has been dead since the 50's. I think people know by now.

#18 the other fellow

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 01:06 PM

Casino Royale was Bond's first mission.

And to me, that means that the other actors who played Bond, and their adventures all followed the events of this one.

Therefore, I think, that whenever Bond sees a woman drowning, he will get flashbacks of Vesper. In particular, I now see the speed with which he runs to save Tracy in the PTS of OHMSS in a new light.

He also saves women from drowning in the following situations:-

Saves Anya in TSWLM
Saves Christmas Jones in TWINE, in the submarine
Saves Jinx when the Ice Palace in DAD

And from now on, when I watch these scenes, I will imagine that he has flashbacks of Vesper.


Anyone else agree?


Totally DB21.

The PTS of OHMSS may have had an influence in the method in which the
writers chose to portray Vesper's death. If that makes sense.
To me, it conects the 2 films.

#19 The Corrector

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:42 PM

For me, the James Bond in Casino Royale cannot be the same manifestation of the character as in the previous twenty films; in the same way that the James Bond in Fleming's stories is not the same as Sean Connery in Dr. No. or as Barry Nelson on T.V.
I prefer to see Casino Royale as a completely fresh start for Bond, and that the Bond played by Connery, Moore et al. never experienced the events of Casino Royale (i see no real evidence in films 1-20 to suggest that Bond encounted Le Chiffre at the casino. I don't like to think that each and every representation of the character should link together and that an event in 2006 can affect the emotions of a character in a film in 1969 (partly because I could never believe a character with that much baggage!).
Obviously the Bond in Casino Royale is very similar to the Bond in Fleming's story of the same name and the Bond played by Connery in FRWL, but that for me is the joy of the various interpretations; looking for the qualities that are shared and those that are different.
Saying that, I have enjoyed reading everyone else's theories on this thread even if I'm not in concurrance with them.