7 replies to this topic

[SirCliff]

i got thinking about this earlier on due to the shower scene does anyone feel there could be a link between Vesper and Lady Macbeth...

eg

The blood on her hands comment in the shower and the guilt she suffers from the killing of the people
and of course the suicide like lady macbeth,
the strong to weak character changes like lady macbeth (eg. the strong willed woman who banters with bond on the train and then reduced to tears in the shower and later suicide)
and the fact she has influnce over Bond (macbeth) through sexuality hence getting the code for the money with love/sex.

im probably looking into it too much but it was the blood the hands line from the shower that got me thinking as it is of course lady macbeth where this originates.

If there is meant to be a link between the characters does this suggests a more negative view of vesper as a manipulator of people???

[Gri007]

I have read Macbeth, about 6 years ago at school. I do see your view.

Fleming had possably have based Vesper on Macbeth, but then the shower scenes where completely original. I think.

I know Fleming bases certain characters on real life people, but who was the inspiration behind Vesper I dont know. I've always thought he might have based her loosly on one of his lovers durng the way.

[Mathis05]

"Damned spot!" Yes I know exactly what your talking about. "And yet here's another." Those are paraphrased, but about right I believe. I was thinking the same thing in the theatre when I first saw CR. They have a similarity in that both are affected by murder/killing in a way each didn't expect for herself. Well Done!

[stromberg]

... but it was the blood the hands line from the shower that got me thinking as it is of course lady macbeth where this originates.

Most definitely. Everyone who writes something like this into a script (P&W or Haggis, in this case) should be aware of the analogy (and I'm sure they were). My first thought when I saw that scene.

I also had that 'Lady Macbeth' feeling even a few scenes ago, when Bond washes his face in the blood red water.

[SirCliff]

"Damned spot!"

....well you know what can i say...lol.

They have a similarity in that both are affected by murder/killing in a way each didn't expect for herself.

- very good point.



I would guess from what i read from people that the consensus opinion is that she loved him, does the macbeth thing suggest that maybe she wasnt all that good after all and manipulated bond to get what she wanted??? either way what a bloody deep and well written character....jinx - pah i pity thee. lol.

[SirCliff]

Another huge point that ive just thought of actually...if vesper is to make a link with lady macbeth maybe you extend it to Bond as macbeth perhaps...

the struggle with morality and ambition -

at the start he is reluctant to commit murder but it later becomes easier
And betrayal which runs throughout CR

murdering his friend Banquo/ Mathiass ( not murder but u get the idea.)

and on a lesser note really scrapping the bottom of the barrell the play is full of conflict and oxymorons - "When the battle's lost and won,"
"So foul and fair a day I have not seen."

the half monk half hit man line???? scrapping the barrell i know. lol.



OK now ive had enough im looking into it too much. lol

[Kara Milovy]

Fleming certainly used Shakespearean allusions.

But don't overlook the thought that Vesper herself was consciously referencing Macbeth when she said "damned spot." That was my impression, anyway.

[bill007]

Huh?