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Did Bond mean it?


18 replies to this topic

#1 Judo chop

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 04:38 PM

Starting the Venice fight sequence when Mr. White threatens to kill Vesper, Craig replies,

Edited by Judo chop, 08 December 2006 - 04:40 PM.


#2 Mister Asterix

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 04:48 PM

I think Bond would have killed at that point if the need was there, but mostly it was just anger.

#3 Judo chop

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:04 PM

I think Bond would have killed at that point if the need was there, but mostly it was just anger.


Mr. *, you disappoint. I usually enjoy your posts, but I don't know what this one is suppposed to suggest.

"I love you, and I might kill you. Then again it might be mostly anger."

Kinda irratic, don't you think?

:) (added smiley via edit to indicate cheerful nature of post)

Edited by Judo chop, 08 December 2006 - 05:06 PM.


#4 MsGreen

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:06 PM

He felt betrayed so he was angry and said it. However, you know he was kinda hurt and soften when vesper said "I'm sorry, James" and locked herself in that elvator..ready to die.

however, I think he knows she loved his when she caressing his hand before taking in her last breath (that scene is just so sad)

#5 ComplimentsOfSharky

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:12 PM

I think it was just hollow anger at that point...part irrational, part defense mechanism.


Had Vesper survived though, their relationship wouldn't have been the same. Bond might not let on, but he'd always feel betrayed by her, that's why she killed herself. She knew she'd hurt him too much and couldn't live with it.

#6 Emma

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:27 PM

To answer the first question. I think that he was really saying 'Allow me' out of anger. If it wasn't he wouldn't have held her dead body to his after he pulled her out of the water.

The thing I found striking about the use of the 'Bitch is Dead' line in his conversation with M. Was that it was pure bravado and his attempt to show that he was not hurting. When it was clear that he was.



However had Vesper survived. I think that the relationship would have ended. Yes he loved her...and he would have understood that she was between the proverbial rock and a hard place. And she did what she had to do out of necessity. But the relationship would have been over, since he could never trust her again.

Edited by Emma, 08 December 2006 - 05:28 PM.


#7 Damien Hunt

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:33 PM

I think he meant it in that exact moment, but when he finally vanquished the bad guys, and went to try to save her, one of her last words to him was, "I'm sorry James."

I think after that point, he really wanted to try to save her.

#8 dodge

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 05:38 PM

Unless we buy into the theory that Craig's Bond is a psychopath, it's impossible to visualize his actually murdering Vesper. He'd have turned his gun on One Eye. Would he have forgiven Vesper or had her brought up before a firing squad? I think he may have understood. He adored the woman and a man who's been stripped of his armor doesn't fall out of love quite so quickly. We can argue through the night about how long their love might have lasted. But I can't see him killing her. My own guess is they would have made baby Bonds.

Edited by dodge, 08 December 2006 - 05:57 PM.


#9 00Twelve

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:13 PM

I'm just happy that we now have such a complex Bond that this is even being discussed. :)

#10 Mister Asterix

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:21 PM


I think Bond would have killed at that point if the need was there, but mostly it was just anger.


Mr. *, you disappoint. I usually enjoy your posts, but I don't know what this one is suppposed to suggest.

"I love you, and I might kill you. Then again it might be mostly anger."

Kinda irratic, don't you think?

:) (added smiley via edit to indicate cheerful nature of post)


[mra]Sorry to disappoint you, but you said most everything in your post. If Bond was really ready to kill her right then he would have shot her dead that moment maybe taking Gettler along with her. He certainly had the opportunity.

All I

#11 bond_girl_double07

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:23 PM

Most of us have had that love/hate feeling for someone in our lives before, I think the depth of her betrayal just made Bond momentarily hate her a little more than the average (law-abiding) person :)

In all seriousness, no, I don't think he could have ever killed her.. even before M told him, I think he must have known that she was at least trying to hurt him (and England) as little as possible. She clearly had no choice, and he must have known that she tried to do the right thing in the end. If she'd continued with the betrayal even after he found out then yeah, he would have shot her.

I think the relationship if she'd survived never would have been the same unfortunately.. I think the "Allow Me" line clearly shows that he's got the armour back on, and that he will have to be much more sure of the woman to ever fall in love or trust again (which is where Tracy comes in..)

Bond has a really sad love life now that I think about it :P That character has a "love 'em and leave 'em" reputation, but really he's been through a lot of really excruciating heart-break..

#12 Tiin007

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 07:15 PM

He was just angry. He didn't mean it-- he clearly loved her. Proofs:

1) tries to free her from elevator (even before she says "I'm sorry, James")
2) violently tries to save her (pulling at door while under water)
3) tries to recessitate (sp?) her
4) lies over her body (and is possibly crying) after he realizes she is dead

Granted, had she lived their realtionship would not have been the same- after such a betrayal, there would be no way for it to work out between them. However, he still loved her and didn't want her to die.

#13 bond_girl_double07

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 07:24 PM

Good observation, Tiin.. did Bond actually cry? What's the consensus? I can't really picture any of the other Bonds crying (even though Lazenby obviously did.. it just wasnt good :)), I think it's remarkable that Craig (possibly) pulled off strong and vulnerable at the same time :P

#14 Judo chop

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 07:34 PM

Good observation, Tiin.. did Bond actually cry? What's the consensus? I can't really picture any of the other Bonds crying (even though Lazenby obviously did.. it just wasnt good :)), I think it's remarkable that Craig (possibly) pulled off strong and vulnerable at the same time :P


Craig did better than cry. He got his eyes to redden and MIST, but not shed a tear. (Any man caught wiping his eye during an emotionally moving scene in a movie will explain the subtle but very important difference between the two.)
One of my favorite Bond moments. You see his eyes prepare for tears, and then you see the ice (armour) come over him. His eyes literally 'gulp' back the tears. Wonderful, wonderful acting. It's these skills that Craig can offer where a Connery, for example, could not.

#15 bill007

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 02:52 AM

Connery was never put in a position to cry. We couldn't accept 007 crying in the 60's, unless it was over his dead wife. But that wasn't Connery, was it.

Concerning the question "Did Bond mean it?" Of course he did. He is a Double-00 who had just been double-crossed. He was operating on 'Queen and Country' at that time. Later, when he saw that Vesper was killing herself because of her guilt and shame, Bond realized she really did love him. That's the loss, the hole in his heart, that broke through when he couldn't revive her. That's my take, anyway.

#16 Willowhugger

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:15 AM

He fully intended to pop the traitor.

#17 Vesperlover

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 05:29 AM

I dont think he would have, i think it was heat of the moment cause if he really did want her to die he wouldn't have jumped in the water to save her and then try and resucitate her!

So know i dont think he meant it, i think it was an in the moment comment!

Edited by Vesperlover, 16 December 2006 - 05:30 AM.


#18 Willowhugger

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 06:37 AM

I wonder how the movie would have been if Bond had shot her. Or at least shot AT her.

#19 MrDraco

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 06:52 AM

Well the job is done, and the bitch is dead anyway..