113 replies to this topic

[spynovelfan]

For a few years now, it has been established fan orthodoxy that Timothy Dalton came the closest to Ian Fleming's James Bond (with Connery the best Bond and Lazenby in the closest Fleming adaptation). Is it true, though - or is it something we want to be true? I don't think being close to Fleming is about smoking - that's an attribute of his individualistic bon-viveur lifestyle. So let's try to break it down to see what we *really* feel. Here are some elements of Fleming's Bond I have identified from the novels. If you agree that they would - roughly - make up someone closely resembling Fleming's character, try to honestly rate each actor out of 5 for each attribute. Add up the total and see who has the largest Quantum of Fleming. Enjoy. And no cheating!

A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way)
B Debonair
C Cold-blooded
D Bon-viveur
E Cocky
F Laconic
G Driven
H Menacing
I Individualistic
J Romantic
K Womanising
L Haunted
M Anti-authoritarian

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Outstanding idea...I need to think about this for a little while before I answer...but I'll get back here before the day is up.

[ACE]

In this piznizz is much risico...

1 Cruelly Handsome SC 5 GL 4 RM 3 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
2 Debonair SC 4 GL 3 RM 5 TD 3 PB 5 DC 3
3 Cold-blooded SC 5 GL 4 RM 3 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
4 Bon-viveur SC 5 GL 4 RM 5 TD 3 PB 4 DC 3
5 Cocky SC 5 GL 4 RM 3 TD 3 PB 4 DC 4
6 Laconic SC 5 GL 4 RM 5 TD 3 PB 4 DC 3
7 Driven SC 3 GL 4 RM 3 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
8 Menacing SC 5 GL 3 RM 3 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
9 Individualistic SC 5 GL 3 RM 5 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
10 Romantic SC 3 GL 4 RM 3 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
11 Womanising SC 5 GL 5 RM 5 TD 3 PB 5 DC 3
12 Haunted SC 1 GL 3 RM 1 TD 4 PB 4 DC 4
13 Anti-authoritarian SC 4 GL 5 RM 3 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5

Quantum of Fleming/65 SC 55 GL 50 RM 47 TD 53 PB 53 DC 55

QoF as a Percentage % SC 84.6 GL 76.9 RM 72.3 TD 81.5 PB 81.5 DC 84.6

Very Brasseye of you, SNF. I suppose the QoF is measured on a Shatner's Bassoon!

Fun though.

I surprised myself!

[Loomis]

CONNERY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 1
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 55

LAZENBY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 3
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 51

MOORE
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 2
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 1
TOTAL = 48

DALTON
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 2
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 4
F Laconic - 1
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 1
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 3
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 44

BROSNAN
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 1
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 2
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 2
H Menacing - 2
I Individualistic - 1
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 4
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 38

CRAIG
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 2
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 3
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 56

So, Craig just narrowly beats Connery to be the closest to Fleming's of the screen Bonds. Laz comes third, Moore fourth, and Dalton and Brosnan are the least Flemingian of the bunch.

Which sounds about right to me, although I'd question whether a couple of these traits are especially Flemingian. For instance, is Fleming's Bond particularly anti-authoritarian? Does he ever go against M, whom he appears to view (as the cinematic 007 most definitely doesn't) as an almost godlike figure? Is he ever cocky (except towards villains)? Dunno, perhaps I'm just forgetting my Fellminng for a moment.

[ACE]

So, Craig just narrowly beats Connery to be the closest to Fleming's of the screen Bonds. Laz comes third, Moore fourth, and Dalton and Brosnan are the least Flemingian of the bunch.

You nobbled Tim, dintcha, Loomis!

BTW, you set it out in a much more sensible way than me!

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I stole ACE's setup

1 Cruelly Handsome SC 5 GL 3 RM 3 TD 5 PB 2 DC 5
2 Debonair SC 4 GL 3 RM 5 TD 3 PB 5 DC 2
3 Cold-blooded SC 5 GL 4 RM 4 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
4 Bon-viveur SC 5 GL 5 RM 5 TD 4 PB 4 DC 4
5 Cocky SC 5 GL 5 RM 4 TD 3 PB 4 DC 4
6 Laconic SC 5 GL 4 RM 5 TD 3 PB 4 DC 3
7 Driven SC 3 GL 4 RM 2 TD 5 PB 2 DC 5
8 Menacing SC 5 GL 3 RM 3 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
9 Individualistic SC 5 GL 4 RM 5 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
10 Romantic SC 2 GL 4 RM 3 TD 5 PB 2 DC 5
11 Womanising SC 5 GL 5 RM 5 TD 3 PB 5 DC 2
12 Haunted SC 1 GL 2 RM 1 TD 4 PB 2 DC 4
13 Anti-authoritarian SC 4 GL 5 RM 2 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5

SC 54
GL 54
RM 47
TD 55
PB 44
DC 54

I really hope I did my math right because this is a cool result

Tim number 1, then a three way tie between Sean, George and Daniel for second...with Roger trailing and Pierce in the dust.

[Mr Woodpigeon]

Which sounds about right to me, although I'd question whether a couple of these traits are especially Flemingian. For instance, is Fleming's Bond particularly anti-authoritarian? Does he ever go against M, whom he appears to view (as the cinematic 007 most definitely doesn't) as an almost godlike figure? Is he ever cocky (except towards villains)? Dunno, perhaps I'm just forgetting my Fellminng for a moment.

As far as I know he isn't. I think it is in Moonraker that it is mentioned how much respect he has for M.

[Pam Bouvier]

CONNERY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 1
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 54

LAZENBY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 2
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 4
L Haunted - 2
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 47

MOORE
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 3
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 1
TOTAL = 49

DALTON
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 2
F Laconic - 1
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 3
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 50

BROSNAN
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 2
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 3
I Individualistic - 1
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 4
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 43

CRAIG
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 2
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 57

The script has alot to do with some of these rating. Had Moore done Brosnan or Craig DAF, the numbers would have been different for me. Different scripts, focus on different aspects of our hero.

[spynovelfan]

I'm enjoying all the answers so far. Loomis, do you really think Roger Moore comes across as more cold-blooded a character than George Lazenby? Is that your whole 'He shoots people and then jokes about it' idea?

Which sounds about right to me, although I'd question whether a couple of these traits are especially Flemingian. For instance, is Fleming's Bond particularly anti-authoritarian? Does he ever go against M, whom he appears to view (as the cinematic 007 most definitely doesn't) as an almost godlike figure? Is he ever cocky (except towards villains)? Dunno, perhaps I'm just forgetting my Fellminng for a moment.

As I said, I meant it to be a rough indication, with enough factors so that it creates more of an accurate result but not so many that nobody would bother filling the thing in for every actor. I think a lot of people go for Timothy Dalton as being more like Fleming, without thinking through why precisely. It's become a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, and I think at least some of it is to do with his coming after Moore. He scores very highly for me on his looks, menace, romantic streak and driven nature. But I think Bond's debonair, bon-viveur and womanising elements are just as important in the books, and I don't think Dalton has nearly as much as any of those as some of the others. I cannot imagine Dalton's Bond having his own recipe for scrambled eggs or visiting a tailor - he would regard both as frivolous vanities. Not so Moore's Bond.

Is Fleming's character anti-authoritarian? Yes, I think he is, especially considering the time. One gets the feeling that the other Double-Os play it by the book. Bond, while being patriotic and dutiful and very loyal to M, does things his way. Examples of this would be his message back to M in DR NO:

'KINDLY INFORM ARMOURER SMITH AND WESSON INEFFECTIVE AGAINST FLAME THROWER'

This is anti-authoritarian (and also an example of his laconic humour). Other examples of anti-authoritarian behaviour from 007 would include the entirety of the short story THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, in which he questions his mission to assassinate an enemy agent from the start, and then fails to complete it because he liked the look of her (also an example of his romantic streak). One more example of his attitude to authority: his reaction against the regime at Shrublands.

As for Bond's cockiness, yes, I think he is often very sure of himself indeed in Ian Fleming's books. In CASINO ROYALE, Vesper says that everyone is an island. Bond, who has only just met her replies: 'Let's get together and make an archipelago'. He makes some very cocky remarks to Solitaire within minutes of meeting her. Ah, is this cocky or just womanising? Bond is very cocky in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, completely underestimating his enemy because he thinks they're just two-bit American gangsters who could be no real threat - he admits as much later on. He is also extremely cocky with Drax at Blades, in his first meeting with Scaramanga, with Goldfinger's girl and in his dealings with 'Nash' before he realises who he is.

I can provide examples from the books for all of the elements, if you'd like.

[spynovelfan]

The script has alot to do with some of these rating. Had Moore done Brosnan or Craig DAF, the numbers would have been different for me. Different scripts, focus on different aspects of our hero.

True, but I think there's more to it than that nevertheless. If that were really the case, then Lazenby would be universally hailed by fans as being the closest to Fleming, because the film he was in is universally hailed by fans as being the closest to the novel. But even though he had all the Fleming material to work with and Dalton had a couple of slices of short stories to work with, Dalton gets that tag. Equally, Moore's dinner with Scaramanga in THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN seems like it's very much Fleming's character, even though the film bears little relation to the novel and has a very different emphasis. Throughout the course of a film an actor gives off a definite vibe - and it can work both ways. In THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, Timothy Dalton has a line about knowing a great restaurant in Karachi. That's a very Fleming-esque line, but because of Dalton's performance throughout the film, that part of his character doesn't convince me that much. Another example would be the ending of ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE. If the other actors had had that scene to play, would they have come across as convincingly as Lazenby did? Even if he had had a script focussing on the haunted romantic elements of the character, I don't think Connery could have been as convincing. See what I mean?

[Loomis]

I'm enjoying all the answers so far. Loomis, do you really think Roger Moore comes across as more cold-blooded a character than George Lazenby? Is that your whole 'He shoots people and then jokes about it' idea?

Yeah. His Bond can be very sadistic. Leaving Moore aside, though, I don't think Laz shows much coldbloodedness. Some, sure - they all show some. But nothing to write home about.

This is anti-authoritarian (and also an example of his laconic humour). Other examples of anti-authoritarian behaviour from 007 would include the entirety of the short story THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, in which he questions his mission to assassinate an enemy agent from the start, and then fails to complete it because he liked the look of her (also an example of his romantic streak). One more example of his attitude to authority: his reaction against the regime at Shrublands.

Okay, but there's none of the extreme anti-authoritarianism sometimes displayed by the cinematic Bond. Can't picture him turning rogue agent, and I think he'd emasculate himself with a carpet beater before even contemplating the idea of breaking into M's home.

[David Schofield]

I think there should also be a specific looks section - Fleming refers to Bond as BLUE EYED, BLACK HAIRED (let's exclude the comma) SIX FEET IN HEIGHT, c 12-12 and a half stone. (I appreciate cruel mouth is taken up by cruelly handsome).

Obviously, the eye colouring would do wonders for Rog, Tim, Pierce and DC's case, but nothing for Sean and Laz. And of course haircolouring would torpedo Rog and DC.

As for height/build...

Oh, and what about age... or are we talking about the time the actor was at his most Bondian i.e. Sean really isn't trying the same act in Diamonds as DN, is he?

Sorry for being pedantic. Think the top points are relevant, though

[spynovelfan]

Okay, but there's none of the extreme anti-authoritarianism sometimes displayed by the cinematic Bond. Can't picture him turning rogue agent, and I think he'd emasculate himself with a carpet beater before even contemplating the idea of breaking into M's home.

M is not the only form of authority around - have a reread of Bond's conclusions at the end of his stay at Shrublands and tell me he's not anti-authoritarian. Bond also considers resigning a few times in Fleming, and I can see that he might well have gone rogue if Fleming had been alive a little longer. He goes rogue in Geoffrey Jenkins' PER FINE OUNCE, and it seemed to me perfectly in keeping with Fleming's character. Dalton's Bond does come back at the end - just as Fleming's does in LALD and YOLT.

Still, I do take your point. But if you think that any of the actors had more of an element than Fleming's Bond, you can still only give them 5. Them's the rules. This is obviously not an exact science. I'm just trying to make people think outside their preconceptions a bit and examine what it is that makes 'Fleming's Bond'. It is not entirely about being a dark assassin. Despite Kingsley Amis' description of Bond as a 'blank invoice slip', I think there are quite a few elements for an actor to get across the same impression. And, of course, being close to Fleming doesn't necessarily mean being better.

[spynovelfan]

I think there should also be a specific looks section - Fleming refers to Bond as BLUE EYED, BLACK HAIRED (let's exclude the comma) SIX FEET IN HEIGHT, c 12-12 and a half stone. (I appreciate cruel mouth is taken up by cruelly handsome).

Obviously, the eye colouring would do wonders for Rog, Tim, Pierce and DC's case, but nothing for Sean and Laz. And of course haircolouring would torpedo Rog and DC.

As for height/build...

Oh, and what about age... or are we talking about the time the actor was at his most Bondian i.e. Sean really isn't trying the same act in Diamonds as DN, is he?

Sorry for being pedantic. Think the top points are relevant, though

I think those points are more relevant for a lookalike contest, though, David! I'm trying to get at who most resembles Fleming's character. His looks are important, or he wouldn't be able to charm half the ladies he does. The plots often rely on that, and I think Mackenzie Crook would have a job convincing us he's Fleming's character for that reason. He's score well on the blue eyes, though. But so what? How do blue eyes make a difference? I'd say the scar makes more of one, because it brands him as someone who has been in danger before, and so on. His tan is arguably important (ish), because it tells us he's cosmopolitan and something of an outsider. But half the population has dark hair. The same applies to height and build and so on - I find Craig very menacing, and part of it is down to his build. I find Brosnan far less so, partly for the same reason. But Brosnan is more debonair than Craig, and that is also partly down to build. Connery, perhaps (a view) manages to be extremely menacing and debonair, because of his facial features, voice, posture, height, build. If it bothers you that one actor is two inches shorter than the 6 foot as described in Fleming, or two inches taller, lower their rating in one of these categories. I don't think they warrant their own categories, or we'll be judging a modelling competition. And I really don't think that Pierce Brosnan is the closest to Ian Fleming's Bond!

I see this as a bit like the smoking question. The fact that he smokes 70 Morland's a day shows that he is individualistic in his tastes and a bon-viveur. But it is not the only way that is shown in the books, so an actor who doesn't smoke at all can show they are individualistic bon-viveurs in other ways. The way they order a drink, for example. The colour of Bond's eyes and his comma of hair are extremely precise details, not character traits. The fact that he is cruelly handsome is what is important. I admit that for box office success, the more handsome one is - and perhaps dark-haired - the more likely it will be that the audience accepts you as James Bond.

But we're not discussing that. We're discussing who comes closest to matching Ian Fleming's James Bond.

[spynovelfan]

Lacking a spreadsheet, I nicked Loomis' format.

CONNERY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 5
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 1
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 1
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 54

LAZENBY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 2
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 53

MOORE
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 2
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 2
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 2
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 47

DALTON
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 2
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 2
E Cocky - 4
F Laconic - 2
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 2
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 49

BROSNAN
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 1
I Individualistic - 2
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 49

CRAIG
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 2
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 5
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 59

[tdalton]

Sean Connery
Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way): 4
Debonair: 4
Cold-Blooded: 5
Bon-viveur: 4
Cocky: 4
Laconic: 4
Driven: 4
Menacing: 5
Individualistic: 4
Romantic: 4
Womanising: 5
Haunted: 3
Anti-authoritarian: 3
Total: 53

George Lazenby
Handson (in a somewhat cruel way): 3
Debonair: 3
Cold-blooded: 3
Bon-viveur: 3
Cocky: 2
Laconic: 4
Menacing: 3
Individualistic: 1
Romantic: 5
Womanising: 3
Haunted: 4
Anti-authoritarian: 5
Total: 39

Roger Moore
Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way): 3
Debonair: 5
Cold-blooded: 1
Bon-viveur: 5
Cocky: 4
Laconic: 4
Menacing: 2
Individualistic: 4
Romantic: 5
Womanising: 5
Haunted: 2
Anti-authoritarian: 1
Total: 41

Timothy Dalton
Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way): 5
Debonair: 3
Cold-blooded: 4
Bon-viveur: 3
Cocky: 4
Laconic: 5
Menacing: 5
Individualistic: 5
Romantic: 4
Womanising: 1
Haunted: 5
Anti-authoritarian: 5
Total: 49

Pierce Brosnan
Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way): 3
Debonair: 5
Cold-blooded: 2
Bon-viveur: 4
Cocky: 3
Laconic: 1
Menacing: 3
Individualistic: 1
Romantic: 3
Womanising: 4
Haunted: 1
Anti-authoritarian: 3
Total: 33

Daniel Craig
Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way): 5
Debonair: 4
Cold-blooded: 5
Bon-viveur: 4
Cocky: 5
Laconic: 5
Menacing: 5
Individualistic: 4
Romantic: 5
Womanising: 3
Haunted: 3
Anti-authoritarian: 5
Total: 53


Interestingly, I always thought that Dalton was the closest, but based on this survey, I find Connery and Craig to be tied as being the closest to Fleming, with Dalton in a close third, followed by Roger Moore, then George Lazenby, and Brosnan in last with a score of 33

[Lazenby880]

This is a *very* interesting idea for a thread, although I must first point out one little issue with its basis for me: to be a succesful cinematic James Bond one needn't be 'Fleming's Bond' (who defies specific definition anyway

Edited by Lazenby880, 25 November 2006 - 02:08 AM.

[ACE]

Interestingly, I always thought that Dalton was the closest, but based on this survey, I find Connery and Craig to be tied as being the closest to Fleming,

Snap, tdalton. I did my results very quickly. I did not think about it, I just let it happen. Had similar, surprising results.

As a final qualification, each actor is marked at his 'peak'; the Sean Connery of ...[You Only Live Twice] is not the Sean Connery of the superlative [Goldfinger].

Nice point, well made, as usual, Lazenby880.

As to your point about Fleming's Bond - don't all the actors have him running through some point of their performances like writing through rock candy?

[Lazenby880]

Nice point, well made, as usual, Lazenby880.

As to your point about Fleming's Bond - don't all the actors have him running through some point of their performances like writing through rock candy?

You have evidently been smoking something strong ACE.

Share the wealth.

[ACE]

You have evidently been smoking something strong ACE.

Share the wealth.

I hope you know my staunch views on redistribution of capital!

[SecretAgent007]

Sean Connery
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 4
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 2
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 1
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 55

George Lazenby
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 58

Roger Moore
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 2
F Laconic - 2
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 2
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 43

Timothy Dalton
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 3
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 2
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 53

Pierce Brosnan
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 3
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 3
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 53

Daniel Craig
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 4
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 3
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 58

huh, wierd

Another catagory you could ad would be loyalty.

Edited by SecretAgent007, 25 November 2006 - 03:32 AM.

[Double-Oh Agent]

My list kind of surprised me with how it turned out. Let's see if you are too.

SEAN CONNERY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 2
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 54

GEORGE LAZENBY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 5
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 57

ROGER MOORE
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 2
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 1
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 2
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 44

TIMOTHY DALTON
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 3
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 3
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 53

PIERCE BROSNAN
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 2
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 49

DANIEL CRAIG
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 3
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 5
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 4
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 55

So, in short, my final tally is:
1. Lazenby 57, t2. Connery & Craig 55, 4. Dalton 53, 5. Brosnan 49, 6. Moore 44.

I can't believe Lazenby topped my list. While I like him as Bond he's my least favorite. I suppose credit has to go to such a great story line that OHMSS is. Also, my favorite two Bonds--Brosnan and Moore--are at the bottom of the list. I guess I like my cinematic Bonds different from my literary Bond.

FYI, when I first read this post, I erroneously ranked the actors among themselves in the respective categories on a 1-6 scale with 1 being the best and 6 the worst. For what it's worth, here's what I came up with on that score:

A Handsome (in a cruel way)-- SC 1, TD 2, GL 3, DC 4, PB 5, RM 6
B Debonair -- RM 1, PB 2, SC 3, GL 4, TD 5, DC 6
C Cold-Blooded -- DC 1, SC 2, TD 3, GL 4, RM 5, PB 6
D Bon-Viveur -- RM 1, SC 2, PB 3, TD 4, GL 5, DC 6
E Cocky -- DC 1, GL 2, SC 3, RM 4, PB 5, TD 6
F Laconic -- DC 1, TD 2, GL 3, SC 4, PB 5, RM 6
G Driven -- DC 1, TD 2, GL 3, SC 4, PB 5, RM 6
H Menacing -- DC 1, SC 2, TD 3, GL 4, PB 5, RM 6
I Individualistic -- DC 1, SC 2, GL 3, TD 4, RM 5, PB 6
J Romantic -- TD 1, DC 2, GL 3, PB 4, RM 5, SC 6
K Womanizing -- SC 1, RM 2, GL 3, PB 4, DC 5, TD 6
L Haunted -- TD 1, PB 2, GL 3, DC 4, RM 5, SC 6
M Anti-Authoritarian -- GL 1, TD 2, DC 3, SC 4, PB 5, RM 6

Final results: 1. Craig 36, 2. Connery 40, t3. Lazenby & Dalton 41, 5. Brosnan 57, 6. Moore 58.

Not a whole lot of change there, but on looking at these lists, Craig is definitely off to a great start as 007.

[bond_girl_double07]

Ooooo this is going to be fun

1 Cruelly Handsome SC 5 GL 2 RM 3 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
2 Debonair SC 4 GL 2 RM 5 TD 3 PB 4 DC 4
3 Cold-blooded SC 5 GL 2 RM 3 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
4 Bon-viveur SC 4 GL 4 RM 5 TD 3 PB 2 DC 4
5 Cocky SC 5 GL 3 RM 5 TD 2 PB 4 DC 5
6 Laconic SC 4 GL 4 RM 2 TD 3 PB 3 DC 5
7 Driven SC 4 GL 2 RM 2 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
8 Menacing SC 5 GL 1 RM 2 TD 4 PB 2 DC 5
9 Individualistic SC 5 GL 3 RM 4 TD 5 PB 2 DC 5
10 Romantic SC 2 GL 4 RM 5 TD 5 PB 4 DC 5
11 Womanising SC 5 GL 1 RM 5 TD 2 PB 4 DC 4
12 Haunted SC 1 GL 2 RM 1 TD 5 PB 3 DC 5
13 Anti-authoritarian SC 5 GL 4 RM 1 TD 4 PB 2 DC 5

SC 54
GL 34
RM 43
TD 51
PB 39
DC 62


Connery is my favorite, but Craig is the most like Fleming's vision (IMO). Gotta do something about that blonde hair, though Ohhh wait.. that didn't really matter afterall (see, haters )

[icecold]

.......Well, isn't that lovely? My browser decided to crash so I lost all the details but here's how it came out in the end.

Craig - 60
Dalton & Connery - 52
Lazenby - 47
Moore - 43
Brosnan - 40

I was quite surprised at the last 2, I thought Moore would have been at the bottom.

[spynovelfan]

[quote name='Lazenby880' post='655917' date='25 November 2006 - 02:45']
This is a *very* interesting idea for a thread, although I must first point out one little issue with its basis for me: to be a succesful cinematic James Bond one needn't be 'Fleming's Bond' [/quote]

But that's not its basis. I am not arguing that fidelity to Fleming's character means the performance is better or worse or more commercially successful or less so. It is purely about trying to see who is closest to Fleming's creation.

[quote](who defies specific definition anyway

[Double-Oh-Zero]

As for Bond's cockiness, yes, I think he is often very sure of himself indeed in Ian Fleming's books. In CASINO ROYALE, Vesper says that everyone is an island. Bond, who has only just met her replies: 'Let's get together and make an archipelago'. He makes some very cocky remarks to Solitaire within minutes of meeting her. Ah, is this cocky or just womanising? Bond is very cocky in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, completely underestimating his enemy because he thinks they're just two-bit American gangsters who could be no real threat - he admits as much later on. He is also extremely cocky with Drax at Blades, in his first meeting with Scaramanga, with Goldfinger's girl and in his dealings with 'Nash' before he realises who he is.

I can provide examples from the books for all of the elements, if you'd like.

Hmm...the cockiness...yes, true, but for many of those bits, Flemmmingn could have been writing it with the intent of depicting Bond as being doped up to his eyeballs with Benzedrine (like in the Drax card game at Blades). Would this make any difference as to how we'd rank the actors, I wonder? Dunno, myself. Were there other references Fellmmming made to Bond taking Benzedrine? Perhaps Felllmingn only explcitly depicted him taking it a few times in order to let the audience make up their own minds in other moments of Bond's self-assuredness.

Still, I'm detracting from the point of this most interesting thread, and I've no idea what that point has to do with anything, frankly. Anyway, I've also blatantly copied Loomis' format...

SEAN CONNERY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 5
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 4
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 2
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 56

GEORGE LAZENBY
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 5
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 3
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 4
M Anti-authoritarian - 4
TOTAL = 54

ROGER MOORE
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 2
B Debonair - 32. Alright, alright... 5
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 1
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 3
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 1
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 42

TIMOTHY DALTON
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 4
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 3
F Laconic - 4
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 4
I Individualistic - 4
J Romantic - 5
K Womanising - 3
L Haunted - 5
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 53

PIERCE BROSNAN
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 3
B Debonair - 5
C Cold-blooded - 3
D Bon-viveur - 5
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 3
G Driven - 3
H Menacing - 2
I Individualistic - 3
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 5
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 3
TOTAL = 47

DANIEL CRAIG
A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - 4
B Debonair - 4
C Cold-blooded - 5
D Bon-viveur - 3
E Cocky - 5
F Laconic - 5
G Driven - 5
H Menacing - 5
I Individualistic - 5
J Romantic - 4
K Womanising - 4
L Haunted - 3
M Anti-authoritarian - 5
TOTAL = 57

Totals:
Craig: 57
Connery: 56
Lazenby: 54
Dalton: 53
Brosnan: 47
Moore: 42

It looks like Craig just nudges ahead of Connery by only one point.

Hmm. Pretty much what I expected, really.

I still favour Connery just slightly over Craig so far as my favourite Bond.

[spynovelfan]

I don't think Bond's cockiness is *entirely* down to his drug habit, Double-Oh-Zero! The DAF example I gave is fairly sustained, for instance. I also think he's quite cocky at the end of OHMSS, just presuming he's won. And it doesn't occur to him that his enemies might *really* get him. He's pretty cocky throughout CR, as he admits in the final chapter, the secret agent playing Red Indians - he hadn't considered that espionage might involved his being betrayed, and he just trusted Vesper because she was a woman and they get in the way, if anything. I stand by cocky.

SecretAgent007 suggested adding 'loyalty' to the list. I won't, partly because we're doing this now and I think we have enough categories; partly because apart from loyalty to M, which comes up every now and again, who else is Bond loyal to? Country, I suppose, but it doesn't seem all that stressed to me. And finally, I'm starting to feel sorry for how poorly Dalton's performing in these scores, and if we add loyalty he'll do even worse, because he quit!

[Double-Oh-Zero]

I don't think Bond's cockiness is *entirely* down to his drug habit, Double-Oh-Zero! The DAF example I gave is fairly sustained, for instance. I also think he's quite cocky at the end of OHMSS, just presuming he's won. And it doesn't occur to him that his enemies might *really* get him. He's pretty cocky throughout CR, as he admits in the final chapter, the secret agent playing Red Indians - he hadn't considered that espionage might involved his being betrayed, and he just trusted Vesper because she was a woman and they get in the way, if anything. I stand by cocky.

Oh, I don't deny the fact that Bond is quite a cocky bugger a lot of the time without the use of drugs. I just thought that it might be worth noting that he does use Benzedrine from time to time, which has to count for something in terms of his general attitude. And given that (I don't think) any of the movie Bonds have ever been shown willingly taking Benzedrine (yet; it'd be damned interesting if CraigBond started in the next one)...dunno, just a thought that popped into me empty noggin when you mentioned the Blades card game. Something for me to ponder, I s'pose.

Or maybe I should just take some sleeping pills myself and bugger off.

[Lazenby880]

But that's not its basis. I am not arguing that fidelity to Fleming's character means the performance is better or worse or more commercially successful or less so. It is purely about trying to see who is closest to Fleming's creation.

Ah, forgive me for misunderstanding your raison d'

Edited by Lazenby880, 27 November 2006 - 08:38 PM.

[superado]

Thanks for pointing me to this thread you started, Spynovelfan!

Anyway, after glancing at the initial posts and various responses, I'm concerned (1) if the criteria accurately captures Fleming's Bond, (2) If some of these traits should be better qualified (3) If there should perhaps be a weighting.

For example, was lit Bond really debonaire? I don't think he was, but for the sake of argument that he was indeed debonaire, to what degree? Theoretically, Cary Grant was more debonair than lit Bond, thus being more "Bond" in that category than Bond himself. The same thing with being cold blooded; sure, Bond did not flinch in hurting/killing people, but he struggled with it internally as we saw in the begining of GF.

Some of the other aspects that I question are:

A Handsome (in a somewhat cruel way) - I suggested the importance of weighing these "Quantums of Fleming." Doesn't everyone think that Bond's most basic physical traits as described by Fleming, excluding the details of scars, bone structures resembling specific celebrities, etc., weigh very heavily? I think this factor is up there. Because film is obviously a visual medium, whether or not a Bond actor is handsome (and plain and simple, handsome, without having to squint or rationalize in order to conclude that he's handsome), is a significant qualification to consider.

D Bon-viveur - Though Bond was hedonistic, I think that this aspect needs to be better qualified in the light of Fleming's portrayal of Bond, who was purposefully non-descript in that he wanted utter privacy in enjoying his goods; take the Bentleys for example and how he dressed them down.

E Cocky - Was lit Bond really cocky? Perhaps in the face of villainy, but generally, no.

F Laconic - Per Merriam Webster, this is defined as "using or involving the use of a minimum of words : concise to the point of seeming rude or mysterious". How could this be fairly evaluated in the interest of the Bond actors? By the fact that these are EON films, I think laconic is off the table.

K Womanising - Again, it's difficult to find parity between the individual movies and books, because in some of the books, Bond feasted on women, sometimes it was implied (MR) while not being actualized (again, MR). Dalying with married women, for example, was intentionally given treatment in CR (and TND) to make Bond bolder and "closer to the books" though the decision to extensively not do that earlier lies in the realm of production politics and should offer very little merit for the actors' influence.

M Anti-authoritarian. I think that Bond has wrongly been branded as a rebel, and worse, display of this in recent films have been attributed to Fleming's writings; I thought it nice to see Dalton actually acting out Bond's occasional, internalized disagreements with M, but it got old when Brosnan (repeatedly) and Craig revisited it. How Bond internalized his feelings for authority was vastly different from how he actually behaved in front of them...which I would say is pretty much like how the rest of us carry on!

Some attributes that are missing and should be listed are "sardonic," "ironic" and "saturnine."

Edited by superado, 04 May 2007 - 10:12 PM.