26 replies to this topic

[triviachamp]

What was the meaning of the bit about the person who sent Bond to school? Was it supposed to mean that Bond is working class? (Waits for Craig Haters to jump in ) Is that faithful to Iain Felmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmming?

I wonder if that will be brought up later, or not. I read somewhere that Bond "resents" this fellow though I'm not too sure I noticed that. Good enough reason to watch it again?

Or am I looking into it too much.

[Righty007]

James Bond's parents died in a climbing accident when he was twelve years old. He was sent to live with his Aunt Charmian who paid for his education at Eton and Fettes College. Bond does come from a working class family and every single thing Vesper guessed about him is true except for his watch is an Omega not a Rolex.

[triviachamp]

James Bond's parents died in a climbing accident when he was twelve years old. He was sent to live with his Aunt Charmian who paid for his education at Eton and Fettes College.

So why didn't they mention her then?

[Righty007]

James Bond's parents died in a climbing accident when he was twelve years old. He was sent to live with his Aunt Charmian who paid for his education at Eton and Fettes College.

So why didn't they mention her then?

Vesper isn't a physic plus neither of them went into detail about their life.

[JimmyBond]

What was the meaning of the bit about the person who sent Bond to school? Was it supposed to mean that Bond is working class? (Waits for Craig Haters to jump in ) Is that faithful to Iain Felmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmming?

I wonder if that will be brought up later, or not. I read somewhere that Bond "resents" this fellow though I'm not too sure I noticed that. Good enough reason to watch it again?

Or am I looking into it too much.

You don't read much Fleming do you?

[TheREAL008]

What I didn't like was the myspace page. It says Bond was born in Germany? What was that??? GERMANY? No, He's English.

Er...Scots and Swiss..but he's defenately UK all the way through.

[Righty007]

What I didn't like was the myspace page. It says Bond was born in Germany? What was that??? GERMANY? No, He's English.

Er...Scots and Swiss..but he's defenately UK all the way through.

James Bond was born in Germany except for in the Young Bond novels which say he was born in Switzerland.

[triviachamp]

What was the meaning of the bit about the person who sent Bond to school? Was it supposed to mean that Bond is working class? (Waits for Craig Haters to jump in ) Is that faithful to Iain Felmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmming?

I wonder if that will be brought up later, or not. I read somewhere that Bond "resents" this fellow though I'm not too sure I noticed that. Good enough reason to watch it again?

Or am I looking into it too much.

You don't read much Fleming do you?

I have read Fleming thank you very much, all of them in fact. So this is just a reference to his aunt then? Oops I thought it was someone else as they did make this person out to be a bit mysterious.

[1q2w3e4r]

What I didn't like was the myspace page. It says Bond was born in Germany? What was that??? GERMANY? No, He's English.

Er...Scots and Swiss..but he's defenately UK all the way through.

James Bond was born in Germany except for in the Young Bond novels which say he was born in Switzerland.

Really where does it mention that he's born in Germany?

He is called in Fleming's novel half Scot and half Swiss. There's mention he's born in Glencoe in the Scottish highlands as well I believe.

Each to their own.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I believe it is mentioned in Bond's obituary in You Only Live Twice.

His father is Scottish and his mother is Swiss and I believe it was Bond's father who was born and raised in Glencoe.

[David Schofield]

James Bond's parents died in a climbing accident when he was twelve years old. He was sent to live with his Aunt Charmian who paid for his education at Eton and Fettes College. Bond does come from a working class family and every single thing Vesper guessed about him is true except for his watch is an Omega not a Rolex.

Righty007, I suspect you might be American, because there is nothing in the Fleming description of the Bonds of Glencoe, or Pett Bottom, (or the Delacroix of Vaud), or in Andrew Bond's profession that would indicate Bond is remotely working class as we British would understand it. "Working Class" in the UK invariably refers to skilled or non-skilled manual workers. Few international arms dealer with wealthy Swiss wives would fall into the catagory. It may be different in the USA. However, I maintain, Fleming did not intend Bond to be "working class" and, of course, in Moonraker, it is mentioned Bond has income from private money, presumably from that which he was left after his parents death.

In British terms, Bond is at the very least middle class, quite possibly upper middle class. The British class system does not mean that somebody is "working class" just because they or there parents have had to work for a living.

Sorry for the matter of fact social education.

[ACE]

Yes, I too was perplexed by Righty007's assertion of the fictional Bond's socio-economic group. Where's Michael Apted when we need him - 007 Up, anyone?

I agree with Mr Schofield's very accurate analysis.

Now, tell me about your childhood, Meester Bnd...

[David Schofield]

Yes, I too was perplexed by Righty007's assertion of the fictional Bond's socio-economic group. Where's Michael Apted when we need him - 007 Up, anyone?

I agree with Mr Schofield's very accurate analysis.

Now, tell me about your childhood, Meester Bnd...

"Well, me Dad was up at four int'mornin' and jumped on his bike and rode to factory. You could see the Vickers plant from t'end of our street, ruddy great clouds of thick black smoke comin' art. Me Dad'd joins 'undreds of other walkin' through gate. Then 'ed stand at 'is lathe all bloody day mekin' them bloody guns. Tharsands of em. Day after day. Then, when whistle'd blow at six, 'ed ride 'om again and jump in tin bath me Mam 'ad filled in front of t'fire."

Obviously, after his mystery benefactor had paid for his expensive education, Bond's diction of the English language would have improved somewhat. If only to fit in with is clothes as an aspiring Oxbrigde type

[ACE]

LOL, Mr Schofield!

Of course, while we're at it, Bond never went to Oxbridge University (sic !).

[stone cold]

"Well, me Dad was up at four int'mornin' and jumped on his bike and rode to factory. You could see the Vickers plant from t'end of our street, ruddy great clouds of thick black smoke comin' art. Me Dad'd joins 'undreds of other walkin' through gate. Then 'ed stand at 'is lathe all bloody day mekin' them bloody guns. Tharsands of em. Day after day. Then, when whistle'd blow at six, 'ed ride 'om again and jump in tin bath me Mam 'ad filled in front of t'fire."

is that your impression of how working class people are meant to speak?

[David Schofield]

"Well, me Dad was up at four int'mornin' and jumped on his bike and rode to factory. You could see the Vickers plant from t'end of our street, ruddy great clouds of thick black smoke comin' art. Me Dad'd joins 'undreds of other walkin' through gate. Then 'ed stand at 'is lathe all bloody day mekin' them bloody guns. Tharsands of em. Day after day. Then, when whistle'd blow at six, 'ed ride 'om again and jump in tin bath me Mam 'ad filled in front of t'fire."

is that your impression of how working class people are meant to speak?

No, its a piss take of working class, c1930s. You know, when Fleming's Bond was growing up.

Growing up BUT NOT among the working class.

[spynovelfan]

"Well, me Dad was up at four int'mornin' and jumped on his bike and rode to factory. You could see the Vickers plant from t'end of our street, ruddy great clouds of thick black smoke comin' art. Me Dad'd joins 'undreds of other walkin' through gate. Then 'ed stand at 'is lathe all bloody day mekin' them bloody guns. Tharsands of em. Day after day. Then, when whistle'd blow at six, 'ed ride 'om again and jump in tin bath me Mam 'ad filled in front of t'fire."

is that your impression of how working class people are meant to speak?

It's a (very funny) reference to a Monty Python sketch.

I thought the slightly Dickensian 'benefactor' comment was interesting (and I can see the slight confusion, as you wouldn't really think of someone that immediately in the family as being a benefactor), because it brought to mind the Tim Powers novel DECLARE, in which a British boy's education and upbringing is entirely sponsored by MI6 with the intent of his becoming an agent later on. Perhaps Charmain had some help from Andrew's old contacts?

Incidentally, one of the SAS' main suppliers during and after the war was Vickers.

[David Schofield]

I thought the slightly Dickensian 'benefactor' comment was interesting (and I can see the slight confusion, as you wouldn't really think of someone that immediately in the family as being a benefactor), because it brought to mind the Tim Powers novel DECLARE, in which a British boy's education and upbringing is entirely sponsored by MI6 with the intent of his becoming an agent later on. Perhaps Charmain had some help from Andrew's old contacts?

Incidentally, one of the SAS' main suppliers during and after the war was Vickers.

Well, of course, its possible that Craig Bond has no Aunt Charmian, was indeed educated by MI6. Hey, as an orphan, perhaps he didn't even know his background, even his name and was given the name "James Bond", and as is clearly suggested from the film, gradually being taught and learning sophistication, etc.

Perhaps, he's been made to be "James Bond" even, to replace an older 'real' (?) James Bond. Perhpas the codename theory really is alive...

[Righty007]

James Bond's parents died in a climbing accident when he was twelve years old. He was sent to live with his Aunt Charmian who paid for his education at Eton and Fettes College. Bond does come from a working class family and every single thing Vesper guessed about him is true except for his watch is an Omega not a Rolex.

Righty007, I suspect you might be American, because there is nothing in the Fleming description of the Bonds of Glencoe, or Pett Bottom, (or the Delacroix of Vaud), or in Andrew Bond's profession that would indicate Bond is remotely working class as we British would understand it. "Working Class" in the UK invariably refers to skilled or non-skilled manual workers. Few international arms dealer with wealthy Swiss wives would fall into the catagory. It may be different in the USA. However, I maintain, Fleming did not intend Bond to be "working class" and, of course, in Moonraker, it is mentioned Bond has income from private money, presumably from that which he was left after his parents death.

In British terms, Bond is at the very least middle class, quite possibly upper middle class. The British class system does not mean that somebody is "working class" just because they or there parents have had to work for a living.

Sorry for the matter of fact social education.

I think that mistake means I need to read a lot more Fleming. Thanks for the correction.

[Johnboy007]

My dad asked me this same question on the way home from the theatre. "How could James Bond afford to attend a university (he understood it as Oxford from the movie) if both of his parents are dead?"

Frankly, I don't think they should explain his childhbood in detail. His apparent absence of a childhood makes him a better character.

I did agree with Righty's assessment after a first reading through Fleming. It does essentially make Andrew sound like a common factory worker which, in America, makes him working class. But how then could a common factory worker's family receive an education (and legacy) at Eton? That would indicate they are at least middle class (which they are).

Fortunately, Pearson does a good job of cleairng this up in the "biography".

[David Schofield]

My dad asked me this same question on the way home from the theatre. "How could James Bond afford to attend a university (he understood it as Oxford from the movie) if both of his parents are dead?"

Frankly, I don't think they should explain his childhbood in detail. His apparent absence of a childhood makes him a better character.

I did agree with Righty's assessment after a first reading through Fleming. It does essentially make Andrew sound like a common factory worker

I think this clearly shows the difference in interpretation of "class" and "society" between the UK and USA.

You must quote me the reference from Fleming that implied Bond's father was a factory worker.

There are, I agree, potential different readings of Fleming... but James Bond's dad a factory worker...?

[Johnboy007]

No time to flip through them, but all I can remember is something along the lines of "worked for the Villiers factory". So he could be an assembly line grunt or the regional manager, president, etc. So far as I can remember Fleming never explained what Andrew did at Villiers, hence the varying interpretations seen here. I'm not saying he was a member of the "working class", but I can see how it could be interpreted that way. However, since he frequently left on vacation to rock climb in Switzerland and could enroll (and presumably pay) for his son to attend Eton. Therefore he can't be working class and must be middle or upper class.

[David Schofield]

No time to flip through them, but all I can remember is something along the lines of "worked for the Villiers factory". So he could be an assembly line grunt or the regional manager, president, etc. So far as I can remember Fleming never explained what Andrew did at Villiers, hence the varying interpretations seen here. I'm not saying he was a member of the "working class", but I can see how it could be interpreted that way. However, since he frequently left on vacation to rock climb in Switzerland and could enroll (and presumably pay) for his son to attend Eton. Therefore he can't be working class and must be middle or upper class.

The line from YOLT is that Andrew Bond worked as a "foreign representative" for Vickers and that consequently James spent all his childhood abroad.

I don't think there is any indication of shop floor work in that.

[Johnboy007]

Well, you're preaching to the choir here.

[ACE]

Wasn't Bond's benefactor Magwitch?

After all, we had, ahem, great expectations of Daniel Craig!

(OK, OK, shoot me!)

[Righty007]

Wasn't Bond's benefactor Magwitch?

After all, we had, ahem, great expectations of Daniel Craig!

(OK, OK, shoot me!)

I hate that book.

[JCRendle]

"Well, me Dad was up at four int'mornin' and jumped on his bike and rode to factory. You could see the Vickers plant from t'end of our street, ruddy great clouds of thick black smoke comin' art. Me Dad'd joins 'undreds of other walkin' through gate. Then 'ed stand at 'is lathe all bloody day mekin' them bloody guns. Tharsands of em. Day after day. Then, when whistle'd blow at six, 'ed ride 'om again and jump in tin bath me Mam 'ad filled in front of t'fire."

is that your impression of how working class people are meant to speak?

It's a (very funny) reference to a Monty Python sketch.

Love that sketch (which has been repeated by many comedy groups along the years - anyway...

Bond, I believe is upper middle class.