29 replies to this topic

[Judo chop]

Did anybody else find that

[Mr Woodpigeon]

Bond does not drink to get hammered. So, the way it was done - business, was perfect.

[Vauxhall]

I may end up being in a minority here, but I really don't think it matters as I can't see the line retaining as much power on screen as it does in the book. Not exactly sure why, but it may be a reflection upon 21st century cinema - such a phrase doesn't quite have the same shock value.

[dinovelvet]

I thought it was fine, Craig delivered it coldly and casually. I do agree that there was a certain shock value in having a book end like that in 1953 that just isn't there today, so it could never really be as potent as seeing it on the page.

[Judo chop]

I may end up being in a minority here, but I really don't think it matters as I can't see the line retaining as much power on screen as it does in the book. Not exactly sure why, but it may be a reflection upon 21st century cinema - such a phrase doesn't quite have the same shock value.

Well, I would suppose the real impact should originate from the fact that Bond was in love, and now has ice in place of a heart; not so much that he used a bad word, if that's what you're getting at.

[marktmurphy]

Thing is, we've read the book and know the line. We want a big fanfare when we see it on the screen.
Someone who hasn't read the book just knows that Bond's love has died in his arms. And for him to suddenly have turned to stone and casually refer to her as 'the bitch'; it's a shock. It's the utter trivial way in which he says it that's shocking. It won't work for someone who knows it's coming, but someone who doesn't know it's there, it's not signposted at all and they'll think 'hang on; did he say 'the bitch is dead'? Crikey'.

[Judo chop]

Thing is, we've read the book and know the line. We want a big fanfare when we see it on the screen.
Someone who hasn't read the book just knows that Bond's love has died in his arms. And for him to suddenly have turned to stone and casually refer to her as 'the bitch'; it's a shock. It's the utter trivial way in which he says it that's shocking. It won't work for someone who knows it's coming, but someone who doesn't know it's there, it's not signposted at all and they'll think 'hang on; did he say 'the bitch is dead'? Crikey'.

You know, I think the guy in the row behind me DID say "Crikey"!

[Brock Samson]

The only thing that aggravated me about it was the way they softened her betrayal by having M's bit of exposition after Bond says 'job done, bitch dead'. Should have just left it that she was a double agent. Or am I remembering the book incorrectly?

[AgentPB]

I may end up being in a minority here, but I really don't think it matters as I can't see the line retaining as much power on screen as it does in the book. Not exactly sure why, but it may be a reflection upon 21st century cinema - such a phrase doesn't quite have the same shock value.

I agree although they didn't give the line it's due!

[deth]

The only thing that aggravated me about it was the way they softened her betrayal by having M's bit of exposition after Bond says 'job done, bitch dead'. Should have just left it that she was a double agent. Or am I remembering the book incorrectly?

no, you're right. I think it would have made it all the more powerful.....

[spynovelfan]

Thing is, we've read the book and know the line. We want a big fanfare when we see it on the screen.
Someone who hasn't read the book just knows that Bond's love has died in his arms. And for him to suddenly have turned to stone and casually refer to her as 'the bitch'; it's a shock. It's the utter trivial way in which he says it that's shocking. It won't work for someone who knows it's coming, but someone who doesn't know it's there, it's not signposted at all and they'll think 'hang on; did he say 'the bitch is dead'? Crikey'.

Hadn't thought of it that way, but I think this is spot on. Craig deliberately underplayed it, and the casualness of it is what shocks. Very clever decision of his.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I don't think they could've ended it like the book.

They learned a lesson with OHMSS...no matter how low Bond gets beaten....he needs to come out on top in the end. The bitch is dead just wouldn't have been high enough for most people (myself included). I loved the ending and I loved Daniel's delivery of the line.

[MR. BOND 93]

Yeah I expected it to be in like a London phone booth actually... don't ask me why... but the line itself wasn't that memorable either.

[K1Bond007]

I think it worked fine within the confines of this film. The best part of that scene wasn't really the delivery of the line to me, but rather M's reaction.

[EyesOnly]

I don't remember M's reaction!

[Hass]

I haven't seen the film yet (that's what you get for living in Australia) so I can't judge Craig's delivery of the line.

But it's obvious the power of the line is diminished by it not being the very last.

How you end a film determines how your audience interprets everything that has gone before it.

Take Gone with the Wind. "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" is a powerful line wherever it's placed. But if the movie ends there we'd interpret the film differently. Scareltt would have ultimately lost. But it doesn't. Scarlett gets a coda where she tells herself that "tomorrow is another day" and that frames how we look back on the preceding god-knows how many hours of that film (well it was a long movie).

The whole reason the line "Bond... James Bond" is so powerful in Casino Royale is because it is the last line of the film. Placement is everything.

P.S. Yes, I know I shouldn't be wandering into the spoilers section, but I'm only looking at topics I consider 'safe'.

[Hass]

Just another thing on the meaning of the line itself.

Sure, it shows Bond being hard and cold and cruel.

But an interesting thing to remember is that Bond calls Vesper "the bitch" numerous times throughout the book - even when he's already falling for her.

Before he's even met her, he refers to her as "the bitch".

When he thinks she's been kidnapped he calls her "the silly bitch".

So when he delivers that final line I can always see him thinking, underneath the surface, "the stupid bitch - what was she doing getting tangled up in that mess and getting herself killed?"

For me, it's the true power of the line. It shows Bond as a bastard getting on with his life - his emotion changing from love to hate, but he's a scarred man and wishes more than anything in the world that he still had Vesper in his arms.

Cheers.

[deth]

that's a GREAT point, Hass

[K1Bond007]

I don't remember M's reaction!

M's reaction is more upsetting to herself than at James. I don't know. Maybe it's me. She just looks like she's taken aback a little.

[MR. BOND 93]

Yeah I think if Bond had called Vesper a bitch before he said 'The Bitch is dead' like in the book... like instead of him calling her a 'Bloody idiot' at Casino Royale, he could of called her a 'Stupid bitch' or something like that. Then the line would of made a little more... sense.

[Qwerty]

I don't remember M's reaction!

M's reaction is more upsetting to herself than at James. I don't know. Maybe it's me. She just looks like she's taken aback a little.

Indeed. I believe in the script there is something about M not being necessarily happy with herself that she has basically sacrificed Bond to become a spy or something along those lines.

It works well in the film.

[doubler83]

Maybe if Craig dropped an F-Bomb ("Job done. The ing bitch is dead") it would have been more powerful.

Or, maybe not.

[Pam Bouvier]

The only thing that aggravated me about it was the way they softened her betrayal by having M's bit of exposition after Bond says 'job done, bitch dead'. Should have just left it that she was a double agent. Or am I remembering the book incorrectly?

In the book her sucidue note explains her reasons. No note in the movie, so I guess, they had "M" take on the role of explaining to the audience.

Didn;t really annoy me, but your right, it does soften Bond's reaction imo.

[marktmurphy]

Maybe if Craig dropped an F-Bomb ("Job done. The ing bitch is dead") it would have been more powerful.

Or, maybe not.

Honestly, I think not. Because if he'd said ing bitch it would have implied some kind of passionate hatred, and this needs to just be cold.

[Judo chop]

Maybe if Craig dropped an F-Bomb ("Job done. The ing bitch is dead") it would have been more powerful.

Or, maybe not.

Honestly, I think not. Because if he'd said ing bitch it would have implied some kind of passionate hatred, and this needs to just be cold.

I think I would have had to laugh if he had gone the F-Bomb rout, much like the scene with the wedding singer in "Old School", if anybody recalls.

[JackWade]

I thought it was fine. The audience chuckled at it.

Honestly, at first I would've liked to have had that be the last line. However, with Mr. White being involved with the movie, the line they chose to end the movie worked perfectly.

[Marketto007]

Yeah I expected it to be in like a London phone booth actually...

I imagined exactelly the same thing when I read the book...

xxx

[SecretAgentFan]

I think he delivers it very well - cold and angry, although as an reaction to M a bit too fast, thereby revealing that he only wants M to think that he hates Vesper while he actually still loves her. And M realizes that, of course.

[bonds_walther]

[quote name='Judo chop' post='653671' date='21 November 2006 - 22:13']
Did anybody else find that

[DamnCoffee]

^^Agreed