70 replies to this topic

[zencat]

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[zencat]

Originally posted by Roebuck


Yeah Zencat. I know about Gardner.

...hence the use of the phrase 'ABOUT the only one'

And I'm not sure John Person or Kingsley Amis or Christopher Wood made truckloads of cash for their forays into the Bond literary world.

And, of course, we all know what happened to Jim Hatfield.

[Roebuck]

What percentage of novelists DO make truckloads of money Zencat?
Which brings me back to my previous question.
Should the amount the author is earning have any bearing on how the quality of his work is judged? Why should it have any bearing on my crittical oppinion of Benson's work?

I'm not saying he's a bad guy. Just an indifferent writer.

[zencat]

Your right, I don't think novelists make much money at all. The only way a novelist makes money is by selling the movie rights.

Actually, Roebuck, I don't know why we're talking about money. I've kind of gotten lost myself in this thread. But I don't think Raymond is indifferent about his work at all. I think he puts a lot of hard work into these books and I give him credit for that.

[Roebuck]

Actually it was Daniel who introduced the topic of Benson's earnings.
I was a little confused about the relevance myself. That's why questioned it.
And I'm not doubting his passion for the character of Bond.

What I find indifferent is his output.
Read (just as an example) one of Lee Child's 'Jack Reacher' stories.
The way the dialogue sparks. The strong character development. The way his narrative structure draws you in.
Child has real pride in the craft.

I find none of that in Benson's output and that's all I can judge him on.
Not his good intentions.

[zencat]

Fair enough.

Maybe I'll take you up on your suggestion to read a "Jack Reacher" story. I'm intrigued.

[marktmurphy]

jamesbonddoubleoseven in Wales.

Or how about investigating trouble in the glamorous world of Formula 1 racing?

Or investigating where all the money goes in the seedy world of novel writing...

[ThomasCrown76]

James Bond takes on Enron and the logging industry!

[zencat]

Originally posted by marktmurphy
Or how about investigating trouble in the glamorous world of Formula 1 racing?

I kind of like this idea. I always wanted to see Bond in a formula race car.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by zencat

Wait? Why is it so bad to mention Fleming characters and incidents again? I really don't get this.

It's dangerously uncommercial. This may appeal to the fan readership, who know what the characters are and what they did (although it may be a presumption too far that every Bond fan has read, or has any interest in, the Fleming books). However, the casual reader can't unlock the past history and, given that the books are becoming dependent upon the reader's knowledge of previous events, might not be tempted to. In short, too many in-references and in-jokes only ever amuse those in the know. Those few are few. Fleming's Bond books, the last three being exceptional (within every meaning of the word) try to be self-contained adventures, for the most part. What, however, is the impact of Never Dream of Dying if one hasn't read other books? It's uncreative and parasitic.

Secondly, it shows a marked lack of faith in one's own original characters. It would be better to invest time and care developing new and intruiging people rather than a shorthand use of folks who already come with their backstory developed.

Thirdly, it's chronologically suspect. But then only a fan would say that. I bathe in my own hypocrisy and let a tide of inconsistence wash me clean.

A fourth point, and my biggest gripe about Benson's use of Fleming's characters: he sometimes cooks up outcomes for them that seem almost designed to infuriate Fleming fans.

For instance, as I see it, Fleming set up the ending of "You Only Live Twice" in such a way as to make the reader "know" that

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Bond is unwittingly walking into death or captivity in the Soviet Union, but that he will live on (live twice, if you will) - in a way - since Kissy is carrying his child.

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What does Benson do? He kills off

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James Suzuki, son of Bond and Kissy,

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thus ruining the ending of YOLT (although, arguably, "The Man With the Golden Gun", "Colonel Sun" and all the subsequent continuation novels had wrecked it already - my interpretation of it, at least).

And then there's his treatment of Draco. Please.

Perhaps it's a bit daft to gripe about such things - after all, I'm perfectly free to ignore the Benson era and to not consider it part of the "canon"; but I do think Benson did some good stuff, so I don't want to dismiss his work totally.

I just think he was a bit too free and easy with Fleming's characters, that's all (although he was fairly respectful of Fleming's Bond, which is more than can be said for Gardner at times).

[Loomis]

There seems to have been a mixed (though generally positive) reaction to Never Dream of Dying and The Man With the Red Tattoo, so I was just curious about what you'd all like to see in Benson's next Bond novel that wasn't in the previous couple.

I can only think of a few things :
I'd like the books to focus much more on Bond rather than secondary characters. I include characters from previous novels and films in this, it's nice to see Tanaka again but not at the expense of letting Bond have his own adventure and relying on his own wits.

I'd like information to be given as its necessary and not in two or three long paragraphs or extensive "information dump" dialogue that makes for very dry reading.

Finally (for now), I'd like to see Bond involved in a really deep mystery where the true villians aren't really known until the very end (a good twist).

Anybody else have any ideas?

If we do get another novel about the adult Bond, I'd like it to be a period affair, set in the late '60s (after the events of "The Man With the Golden Gun" and "Colonel Sun"). I'd like it to be dark - what I'm looking for, I guess, is "Just Another Kill" (I've said it before and I'll say it again: IFP should be approaching clinkeroo and Jim).

Fleming characters should be used sparingly, and only when absolutely necessary. Amis got away with not bringing back Tiger Tanaka, and so on and so forth, and so should a new writer. And, please, no cars that change colour or become invisible - no more "Eon elements" in new novels. If people think such things are necessary for commercial appeal, they ought to have a look at the sales figures for the Bensons. Keep the movie Bond in the film series, and bring back the literary 007.

If we're going to have a new literary series, I'd like it to take an ageing, and increasingly unstable, Bond through the great events of the late '60s and early '70s, Forrest Gump-like (China during the Cultural Revolution, the Vietnam War, etc.), finishing up with his death or disappearance (yeah, I know that's asking for the moon).

I'd like a talented author to come up with stories Fleming might have gone on to write, rather than just another series of inconsequential potboilers about an ageless and never-changing secret agent called James Bond.

I'm convinced that only adult and intelligent Bond novels, with interesting stories and some real surprises, will get the reading public interested again. I like some of Benson's books, but getting someone to do essentially the same thing all over again would be rather pointless, IMO.