102 replies to this topic

[Moore Baby Moore]

So let's get this straight: Bond faced with losing a card game (this isn't exactly Miami getting blown up by a nuke) disrupts him so much that he can't even order a drink the way he wants it?

By losing said card game, he may have inadvertently funded Le Chiffre's terrorist actions. He's not just faced with losing a card game, he's faced with the possibility that he may have totally screwed up the whole mission.

How would this NOT rattle him?

[HildebrandRarity]

So let's get this straight: Bond faced with losing a card game (this isn't exactly Miami getting blown up by a nuke) disrupts him so much that he can't even order a drink the way he wants it?

you actually didn't understand the plot of this film at all, did you?

Don't waste your time arguing with the troll. He's made up his mind and he's getting a kick out of rattling the cage.

[deth]

this Chula character is has proven his inability to argue logically before...

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=36192

where he talks about hating Arnold,the people that hired him, the CR score (because there's no Cornell) and everything he does... but then says the CR score works pretty well in the film.


http://debrief.comma...mp;#entry647699

where he says that the producers know how bad Arnold's music is... but says they like him anyway, that's why they hired him.
and more...


anyway.... this guy's not worth the attention he's recieving. Let the threads of this ignoramus die.

[DaveBond21]

Why is this against his fine tastes? He already had a dinner jacket and it was presumably tailored as well (he knew what tailoring was, after all).

I loved the way this line was delivered - the tone was half like he was talking to a child, and half like he was talking to his wife!! "It's tailored".

I also think he said it like tailoring was actually a relatively new concept to him, too....

[bill007]

I loved the way this line was delivered - the tone was half like he was talking to a child, and half like he was talking to his wife!! "It's tailored".

I also think he said it like tailoring was actually a relatively new concept to him, too....

A fine look at one of those "typical SAS types" becoming cultured.

[MattofSteel]

Chula, you seem to be implying that there is something more "refined" about Baccarat, and you seem to only accept that Texas Hold'Em is a game only played in dorm rooms around the country. See JimmyBond's post, right above, for a great counter.

Baccarat could be considered a much simpler game than Texas Hold'em. How is switching it to Hold'em "dumbing it down?" There is absolutely nothing unrefined about this game, and it is played far and wide.

"Trendy?" Trendy??!

Hold'Em is a phenomenon right now, that is PRECISELY why the switch was made. Could you have seen another 10 minutes of the film where someone explains directly to the audience exactly how to play baccarat? I paid $10 for a Bond movie, not a Bond movie and a card lesson.

I'm not saying everyone knows Hold'Em. But they know enough about poker in general to know that when Bond throws up a straight flush, he wins. Baccarat is NOT by any stretch a common game. For the dramatic purpose of the film, it simply would not generate the same tension. Poker is more versatile in the sense that it allows our characters traits to come forth more. A baccarat sequence would have been nowhere near exciting. It works as a game when Bond plays it for 30 seconds (see, Thunderball, GoldenEye). Not for 20 minutes.

I suggest you try and step back, and just look at the film in a different light. Because I'm getting the impression that in your current mindset, you really aren't willing to be reasoned with.

[MattofSteel]

C. The "Do I look like I care" line about shaken not stirred seems to have you confused, too. You are another that gives "the job is getting under his skin" reason for uttering that line. So let's get this straight: Bond faced with losing a card game (this isn't exactly Miami getting blown up by a nuke) disrupts him so much that he can't even order a drink the way he wants it? That's what you actually believe? No. I'll say Purvis and Wade stupidly stripped Bond of his steadfast sophistication simply to get a cheap laugh from the audience. You bit. I rolled my eyes and said, "What are they doing to Bond?"

(Recall the scene in GOLDFINGER for how steadfast Bond is in his sophistication. Here he is a laser beam was seconds from cutting him in half, shot point blank in the chest by something, captured, held prisoner aboard his enemy's plane, flying to wherever his enemy takes him...and Bond shaves, showers, and makes sure he comes off that plane wearing the most spectacular suit on God's Earth. You really think that losing a hand in cards can rattle Bond's particualar tastes? If that GOLDFINGER situation couldn't shake his sophistication, then Purvis and Wade are clueless as to what Bond is.)

C. I agree about the tailored dinner jacket is more about Bond getting a little touchy about a girl getting too close. However, it still stands that basically a clerk would tell Bond what is suitable for a casino in Montenegro. Don't give me Bond's "personal budget" prohibits him (he was supplied with the latest Aston Martin, for Christ's sake!). No, when Vesper offers the better jacket it's a case of again Purvis and Wade stripping Bond of his inherent sophistication and giving us a scene where Bond doesn't know what is right when it comes to simply dressing appropriately. He doesn't know! This girl knows better than JAMES BOND what to wear in a casino! That is not Fleming/Bond. That is Purvis Wade/Bond. Not mine.

You don't play poker, do you? Do you understand what is happening to Bond at the moment?

A) He just caught one of the insanely worst beats that you can in a game. Full House of that nature getting topped by 4 of a kind...I don't even want to think about the odds, it hurts my head. Le Chiffre had the one possible hand that could have beat Bond. You don't bank on your opponent having that, ESPECIALLY if he's doing his "tell."

Vesper has just denied him funding. He has just failed a hugely important mission, cost his government 10 million dollars, funded terrorists, and indirectly been responsible for the potential future death of thousands of lives. His career, at the very least if not his life, is over.

You want the Bond that is still cool in that situation? You want the Bond who never loses, even when he loses?

TORTURE SCENE!

THERE is the Bond you want, right there in front of you! And...coincidentally...that scene comes after the casino, farther along his journey of becoming the 007 we know...almost as if that's the point of the film....

THERE, he stands up to that. Getting his balls whacked with a rope, and he still manages to be the Bond we know. And you're telling me this isn't the exact James Bond you're claiming to miss?

C) The "Don't give a damn" line is an intrinsic wink to the audience. He's not Bond yet. It's a high level commentary to the audience. Yes, it pulls you out of the film in that sense. But with prequels and sequels, franchise films in general, it's become an accepted scripting technique.

D) Do you quite SEE the point of the film? He's NOT BOND YET. You're right, if three films down the line Craig is still doing that, something's wrong. But the whole idea is, he's developing these ideas and tastes. Eventually he becomes the 007 we know (See: Last scene. Cue Theme music, famous line, wasn't just for show....)

Edited by MattofSteel, 18 December 2006 - 12:27 AM.

[deth]

I think this troll has gone.

[JackWade]

It's people like these that need to be ignored. Typical straggler that has become accustomed to the ridiculous nature of the Brosnan films and is incapable of escaping it.

Sorry, CR is done right. It's a prequel, Bond is becoming who we have grown to love. He's not the same character we've seen from Roger Moore on. Get over it.

[bill007]

Well said Jack.

[mccartney007]

I regret reading this thread.

[supernova]

Michael Caine is a great example of becoming a gourmet of things in life. He worked as a porter in a fish market and came from a poor cockney family - but apparently he has become a brilliant authority on flowers, gardens and also on food and wine. I'm sure he didn't learn that in the marketplace! James Bond isn't supposed to be a scrubber - he did in fact go to a private, expensive school - where no doubt he would have picked up plenty. Its only as he develops as Bond that he manifests all his latent qualities and memories of things past.

[Monkeyfoahead]

Why did I waste my time reading this thread????