65 replies to this topic

[Boldman]

I haven't read HTTK yet, no. I read Zero Minus Ten, Tomorrow Never Dies and The Facts of Death. Out of the three, I thought TND was the best (or least worse ).

You seem to like the bedside companion. Maybe I should give it a chance. I was put off reading it because it was by Benson, and I was told it was full of mistakes.

As for Gardner, I enjoy his books. I haven't read them all yet, as they're quite difficult to find.

[zencat]

Boldman (26 Jul, 2001 09:41 p.m.):
As for Gardner, I enjoy his books.  I haven't read them all yet, as they're quite difficult to find.

I've found the Gardner books are all over ebay, especially the U.S. editions. You could probably pick them up cheap there.

I wish they would reprint the Gardners. Heck, I wish they'd reprint the Flemings!

[mccartney007]

Boldman (26 Jul, 2001 09:41 p.m.):
I haven't read HTTK yet, no.  I read Zero Minus Ten, Tomorrow Never Dies and The Facts of Death.  Out of the three, I thought TND was the best (or least worse ).

You seem to like the bedside companion.  Maybe I should give it a chance.  I was put off reading it because it was by Benson, and I was told it was full of mistakes.

The Bedside Companion isn't filled with mistakes. The book "The Bond Files" is chocked full of them. Maybe you (or the person who told you about it) were confusing the two? My friend Gary Giblin did a review of the book and it wasn't flattering. It's over on the Secret Intelligence website (http://www.secretintel.com)

As for Gardner, I enjoy his books.  I haven't read them all yet, as they're quite difficult to find.

Gardner books are definately not hard to find. Ebay has them by the truckload and there are plenty of book retailers on line that have them. All you have to do is look. http://www.bibliofind.com and http://www.bookfinder.com are some favorites of mine. I think John aka 'zencat' is a big fan of those two site as well.

[zencat]

Yes, I'm a big fan of those sites. Also ABE. But I like Bookfinder the best because it searches all the sites at the same time. I've made some major finds on Bookfinder.

I was also thinking that The Bond Files might have been the book Boldman's friend was confusing with The Bedside Companion.

Speaking of The Beside Companion. It's now, or going to be soon, available as an eBook.

[zencat]

zencat (27 Jul, 2001 05:07 p.m.):
Speaking of The Beside Companion. It's now, or going to be soon, available as an eBook.

But of course you know this mccartney007 because I just realized who you are.

I can't find my little advert card that gave the address for the eBook site. Do you have it?

[Boldman]

You mean http://www.publishingonline.com/ ?

[mccartney007]

zencat (27 Jul, 2001 05:07 p.m.):
Yes, I'm a big fan of those sites. Also ABE. But I like Bookfinder the best because it searches all the sites at the same time. I've made some major finds on Bookfinder.

I was also thinking that The Bond Files might have been the book Boldman's friend was confusing with The Bedside Companion.

Speaking of The Beside Companion. It's now, or going to be soon, available as an eBook.

It's been available as an ebook for a few months now, actually. They are publishing the "...Companion" in book form again along with Benson's non-Bond effort, "Evil Hours."

The address is http://www.publishingonline.com and they are both available August 15th.

[zencat]

That's it! Thank you sir.

[Boldman]

The guy who said bedside companion was full of mistakes, said this on another forum. I can't find the link now, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

[Mr Trump]

I've never actually read a Benson book so I can not comment but from what I hear he sounds very good and I am deperatley trying to get hold of some of his Bond books.

[Blue Eyes]

I'm glad to find some productivity in here.

If you're going to not read a fictional Benson book atleast read the Beside Companion. I was lucky enough to find it at University stashed away and it's a fantastic read. Facts etc... are very well collated.

I've seen The Bond Files, but only at a bookstore. I was reading it and thinking about where they got all their info from. Things I'd never heard mentioned in a Bond movie or book yet!!

Never mind But great to see this all moving along.

But after Zencat's comments I'm wondering who mccartney007 is! Confused !

[Mr Trump]

If I ever see the book blue eyes I'll read it. Hopefully when I go on holiday I might find some Bond books at the book store at the Airport and maybe the Beside Companion.

[zencat]

Check the other Benson threads about which books to read and in which order. Benson did a midstream "trilogy" of books (High Time to Kill, Doubleshot, Never Dream of Dying) so you wanna try to read at least these books in order.

There's a list on the U.S. Amazon.com site called "Bonding with Benson" written by some madman... Not only can you buy the books here, but you can get an idea of which order to read them in. http://www.amazon.co...0048401-4529513

[Boldman]

Come on, there must be somebody out there who doesn't like him. Even if it's just a little bit, you can't all love him. Can you?

[zencat]

Believe it or not, I do have a criticism of Benson. But it's one that I think is constructive and would happily share with him. I posted this elsewhere, but I feel Benson should send Bond to locations that are more dangerous. I'd like to see Bond in a real 21st century hot zone, like the Middle East or Africa. Bond in Israel? That would rock! I know Benson doesn't wanna travel to these locations (can you blame him for not wanting to go to Iran), but I think he should. I think it would inspire him and could lead to a real masterpiece of modern espionage. It could be his FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, and it could be a Bond book that crosses over to the non-Bond reading public. God knows the movies will never send Bond anyplace that's, well, difficult to shoot in. That's all the more reason Benson should seriously consider this.

[Boldman]

Anything else? The dumbing down of the writing? The cheapening of the sex? The fact that Bond is turned into an idiot? The tackiness of the gadgets?

[Blue Eyes]

Boldman (29 Jul, 2001 09:01 p.m.):
Anything else?  The dumbing down of the writing?  The cheapening of the sex?  The fact that Bond is turned into an idiot?  The tackiness of the gadgets?

I wouldn't say he's cheapened sex, just made it more plainly erotic. How are the gadgets tacky btw? And why is Bond an idiot? Not knocking you, but I'd just like to see how you see it.

[Boldman]

I wouldn't say he's cheapened sex, just made it more plainly erotic.

More plainly erotic? The scenes are no more erotic for a few 'dirty words'.

How are the gadgets tacky btw?

A self healing car? Paint that changes colour? A flying camera, which Bond can operate with one hand, whilst driving a car at high speed with the other?

And how is Bond an idiot?

From reading Bensons books, Bond comes off like one of those fat, bumbling detectives from low-budget TV shows.

Why are you so defensive about Benson on this board?

[Blue Eyes]

Boldman (30 Jul, 2001 02:06 a.m.):
A self healing car?  Paint that changes colour?  A flying camera, which Bond can operate with one hand, whilst driving a car at high speed with the other?

You do know that all these things are in development or do exist don't you?

[Boldman]

You do know that all these things are in development or do exist don't you?

Yes I do know these things exist, but why would they spend thousands of pounds on one mission?

People criticise Moonraker, but people can go into space. Just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's right to use in a Bond novel.

And I'm still waiting for more Benson criticisms.

[zencat]

A self healing car?  Paint that changes colour?

Now you see, this is the type of Benson bashing that I just don't understand. I love these gadgets because they're inventive and REAL. Bond movies should feature cutting edge technology. If they had a car that REALLY changed colors, that would become a classic and generate a ton of publicity for the film. But no, instead it's...

PURVIS
Gee, what kind of gadgets should we use in this one, Wade?

WADE
Oh, I don't know. What did Raymond Benson use in...?

PURVIS
(slamming his finger to Wade's lips)
NO! Mr. Wilson said we couldn't read those books or else he'd have to pay Raymond a buck fifty, remember?

WADE
Oh, yeah. That's right. Thanks. I guess that why they call you "the smart one."

PURVIS
Let's just use the rockets behind the headlight again. Sound good?

WADE
Yeah! Cool! Everyone loves rockets behind the headlights!

Michael Wilson suddenly peeks his head in the office, furious

[Blue Eyes]

Boldman (30 Jul, 2001 02:29 p.m.):
Yes I do know these things exist, but why would they spend thousands of pounds on one mission?  

Well several reasons. For one most gadgets are meant to be returned and reused over and over. Secondly, because should these missions fail the world is at stake and trillions of dollars of global economy. That seems good enough reason.

Plus it's all fantasy! James Bond doesn't exist, nor Fleming's Blofeld! So what does it matter if such gadgets are mentioned!

And I'm still waiting for more Benson criticisms.

We're not going to make up crisicisms. Personally I can't think of any. I'm perfectly happy with Benson's novels.

[Jacques Nexus]

Boldman (25 Jul, 2001 10:07 p.m.):
Everyone on this board seems to adore Benson.  Can't any of you see that he can't write, and that all of his novels are terrible?

The only reason he got to write them in the first place is that he did one book on 007, which I'm told is full of mistakes (although I've never read it, and hopefully never will).

Isn't it time that they passed the shoe on to someone who's literate?

The test of time will show that Benson is a better STORYTELLER than Fleming, Amis and Gardner. However, Benson is NOT as good a WRITER as Fleming or Amis but is on a par with Gardner. Anyway what's your problem with Benson ?. At the end of the day, what's the use of having a better WRITER if they don't have a good story to tell ?. Judging by your user name I think you must be a Gardner fan...that's okay...I won't hold it against you.

[The Admiral]

I've just read all of the post's and simply want to point out my opinion.

I love Benson's books, the story's are great, especially HTTK, which I think you'll find is probably everyone's fav. Benson book, is that right?

I wish he could write the books quicker!

[zencat]

Dave (01 Aug, 2001 07:51 p.m.):
I've just read all of the post's and simply want to point out my opinion. I love Benson's books, the story's are great, especially HTTK, which I think you'll find is probably everyone's fav. Benson book, is that right?

I go back and fourth between HTTK and NDOD as my favorite Benson book. HTTK seems to have the edge, especially with the non-hardcore Bond fans, I've found.

[White Persian]

Jacques Nexus (01 Aug, 2001 04:28 p.m.):
[The test of time will show that Benson is a better STORYTELLER than Fleming, Amis and Gardner. However, Benson is NOT as good a WRITER as Fleming or Amis but is on a par with Gardner. ....  
At the end of the day, what's the use of having a better WRITER if they don't have a good story to tell ?. .

Whew... Mr Boldman sure opened a can of worms.
I really can't let Nexus's prediction go by without comment though. Fleming is indeed a better writer than either of his successors, but I have to say he also surpasses them as storytellers as well, and I just can't see future generations elevating Benson's workmanlike pastiches above the Fleming classics.
My own take on all this, which I've expressed elsewhere, is that Benson is a better plotter than Gardner, and undeniably has a better grasp of Bond and his world, but his prose is no more than servicable, lacking style. Gardner, on the other hand writes more capably, but his plotting is often directionless and repetitive, and "his" Bond becomes less and less recognizable as Fleming's character.
I feel that we have to retain Fleming as the yardstick when assessing any of his successors. Kingsley Amis's effort was as good on all levels as most of Fleming's Bonds. Gardner's first couple were about on par with, say, Fleming's D.A.F. or T.M.W.T.G.G., but were no equal to Fleming's best. In terms of the writing, I don't find any of Benson's writing as good as any of Fleming's, but his plotting and research are fine (though I cringed at "Double Shot" - the plastic-surgery doppelganger was hokey when The Man From Uncle used it thirty years ago).
I've no problem with Benson upping the erotic level (Amis did the same thing), but it has to be done with class and style. Otherwise you get something on the level of Penthouse Forum, which is not noted for its literary qualities.

[Boldman]

I'm not a Gardner fan. He's alright, and better than Benson, but I wouldn't call myself a fan.

I still think Bensons the weakest writer. His books read more like 'the sun' than novels, a writing style I'm just not comfortable reading.

Another thing I don't like is the way he shows off his Bond knowledge when it doesn't fit in. I can't remember which book it was, but in one of them he visits a sperm bank :-D, where he's asked to write out a list of all the injuries Bond's had. Benson then has to make a huge list of every time Bond's ever been hurt. Why? What's the point, other than to say "Look how clever I am, I know how many times 007's been hurt"!

Is Bensnon a member of these forums? Are all the seperate identities actually Benson posting under multiple names? I knew a forum like that once.

[bridge]

I am not a Benson fan. although The best is indubitably Fleming. Bond books should have a temperance. I do not look onto them as being merely stories that are for entertainment. I believe that there should always be depth to each one of them. Fleming had the best one, of course he was the original in the first place. Frankly, I am sorry to see that Bond books have been degenerated over the years in attempt to catch up with the modern time periods. It's true that Gardner's books are not that thrilling and at times not that gloomy. It's also true that Benson did have some ideas of his own. Yet a writer with story is not a writer yet. A writer with skills and stories is a truly great writer.

[Blue Eyes]

Is Bensnon a member of these forums? Are all the seperate identities actually Benson posting under multiple names? I knew a forum like that once.[/quote]

No I can tell you taht he isn't. Unless he's doing it secretly. And I very much know who I am Thank you anyway

[Jacques Nexus]

I think the best way to sort out this whole question is to ask:

Who besides Benson can write GOOD Bond novels ?. The answer ?. I don't know. Can people suggest candidates ?. At this point of time Benson, with his expertise in the Bond character, has to be the best man for the job.

In the old days I used to think to myself why didn't scriptwriter Richard Maibaum write or collaborate in the writing of new 007 novels. Geewhizz !...they would have been corkers !!!.