740 replies to this topic

[O.H.M.S.S.]

Who knows if Bond would still exist without Brosnan and Goldeneye.

Of course it would have existed without Brosnan. Goldeneye came out after such a long gap that it was going to be a hit no matter who was starring in it (except perhaps Dalton).

Again I'll reiterate my "Unorthodox opinion." Brosnand saved nothing.

I agree, not that I don't like Brosnan, but he did not save the franchise.

[john.steed]

-the Fleming books were larger-than-life, tongue-in-cheek pulp fiction, not gritty, moody espionage thrillers

-most of the so-called excesses of the movies have their origins in Fleming (e.g. over-the-top villains with lavish lairs, indestructible henchman, outrageously-named love interests etc.)

I have been reading Fleming's Bond books and very much agree with you on these two points. For example, here is Hugo Drax going over-the-top toward the end of Moonraker as he holds Bond prisoner:

“I loathe and despise you all. You swine! Useless, idle, decadent fools, hiding behind your bloody white cliffs while other people fight your battles. Too weak to defend your colonies, toadying to America with you hats in your hands. Stinking snobs who’ll do anything for money. Hah!”

[00Twelve]

- Blofeld should never have been made bald, given a cat, or worn those ugly monotone suits.
Still think so.

- The films aren't near as compelling as their counterpart novels, except TSWLM.
Pretty much still prefer the books to the movies.

- I love Roger Moore, but his Bond is pretty foppish. God bless him.
I love old twelve, but old twelve needs to lighten up. Moore's cooler than the back side of your pillow.

- Lazenby would have been great in further movies.
Had he continued to hone his acting technique, he could have been pretty enjoyable. Sure.

- TND should have remained Tomorrow Never Lies. It would have actually made sense, and it sounds infinitely more Flemingesque.
No question. Would have been loads better.

I need to amend my old list:

- Diamonds Are Forever is a damned good Bond novel
Indeed, 00Twelve, it sure is.

- Many of the films went overboard on Bond's "suave" level
Indeed, 00Twelve, lighten up.

- Dalton would make a perfect Miles Messervy
Agreed.

- Connery looked better physically in Thunderball than in the previous three films
No argument from me.

Alright! Catch-up time--bold updates above, new observations below:

Wish FRWL wasn't quite as light-hearted as it is.

Christopher Lee could have been just as memorable as Joseph Wiseman in Dr. No.

Jeffrey Wright's Felix Leiter is the coolest yet.

The LALD gold coin plot deserves to be adapted.

Moonraker is lovely.

FYEO is nearly as campy but wears it with a straight face.

The role of Q was basically tired after Goldfinger.

Elvis was a hit.

The QOS car chase is a wonderful model for simplicity in storytelling.

Bond need not go on after Daniel Craig.

[blueman]

Lazenby was a waaaaaaaay better Bond than Dalton.

Dalton should've been hired in '80 for FYEO.

Glen blows hot chunks (as a director).

TND was the best Bond since TMWTGG.

QOS is light years better than CR.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Samantha Bond's "Moneypenny" was a straight-up whore.

Agreed; I'd go one further, but they don't allow profanity on these boards.

[Grievous Angel Draven]

Roger Delgado would've made an excellent Blofeld.

LTK is leagues ahead of TLD.

LTK is a better adaptation of Fleming's LALD than the actual film LALD.

John Glen was a much better editor than Peter Hunt.

George Lazenby failed as Bond because he tried so hard to be Connery, which didn't work.

Judi Dench is an awful M, and Malcolm McDowell should have taken over on Goldeneye.

Thunderball has the worst pacing of any of the Bonds.

Never Say Never Again is better than the last two official Connery films (mostly because Sean actually gave a crap about what he was doing).

[Tybre]

Roger Delgado would've made an excellent Blofeld.

Or any Bond villain at all

[HH007]

I'm not a big fan of "Thunderball".

I think Connery is overrated (to an extent). He was great in his first three films, but not so much in his later ones.

I thought Brad Whitaker was a good villain... or, at least, I enjoy Joe Don Baker's performance.

[Colossus]

I liked Connery's laconic performance in YOLT. A refreshing change of pace from the alphamale machismo of how things were getting beforehand.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

George Lazenby was an excellent Bond.

Holly Goodnight is one of my favourite Bond girls (perhaps due to Britt Ekland's stunning beauty).

Roger Moore is not as unconvincing an action man as some people claim.

Pierce Brosnan is not the antichrist, just the weakest Bond.

Thunderball is overlong, but overally a decent film.

The Man With the Golden Gun is a lovely movie, despite its shortcomings.

A GoldenEye starring Timothy Dalton would have been a big hit (and possibly an interesting movie). Period.

Octopussy might be the most entertaining Bond movie.

[Sockem]

CR, besides the gun barrel and title sequence, is way way way too over the top.

LALD is one of the worst Bonds.

LTK is as well.

Add DN too. (Duck)

I like Another Way to Die it fits QOS.

Thunderbore is boring.

TMWTGG through MR are the only good Moore films.

TWINE is ok.

I prefer Blofeld in OHMSS.

Felix Leiter is stupid and unnecessary in the movies.

Edited by Sockem, 26 July 2009 - 09:00 AM.

[Aris007]

I'm not a big fan of "Thunderball".

You're not the only one!

[DR76]

George Lazenby failed as Bond because he tried so hard to be Connery, which didn't work.

George Lazenby succeeded, because he didn't bother trying to be like Connery.


Without Gert Frobe's performance, the character of Auric Goldfinger is an idiot.

Edited by DR76, 26 July 2009 - 06:53 PM.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Without Gert Frobe's performance, the character of Auric Goldfinger is an idiot.

Agreed; it's only the subtle touches in his performance that saves the character.

[Colossus]

TMWTGG through MR are the only good Moore films.

Definitely his most entertaining.

[Sockem]

I'm not a big fan of "Thunderball".

You're not the only one!

From what I've read of this thread, this is not so unorthodox of an opinion.

[HH007]

I'm not a big fan of "Thunderball".

You're not the only one!

From what I've read of this thread, this is not so unorthodox of an opinion.

Looking around this thread some more, I've come to realize that.

[blueman]

I kinda like TB.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I kinda like TB.

As do I; there, you're not alone.

[AMC Hornet]

So here's my list - which expresses my personal opinion, not a manifesto of what I declare is the BEST or WORST in the canon. Nobody - not even Roger Ebert, Leonard Maltin, Michael G. Wilson or Barbara Broccoli have the right to declare such absolutes. Keep in mind I was a child of the seventies, so I grew up on Guy Hamilton & Roger Moore, seeing the first six films only at retrospectives.

My favorites, in no particular order:

Thunderball (come on, who wants a Bond movie to be short?)
OHMSS (you don't have to be a Connery fan to be a purist)
Diamonds Are Forever (the first one I ever saw. Those who saw AVTAK first feel the same way)
Live and Let Die (the first one I got to look forward to, and I love that boat! [not to mention Gloria Hendry in a bikini])
TMWTGG (I'd lived in Thailand a few years before, plus Chris Lee and that gun!)
TSWLM ([detecting a trend here?] Love the ski chase, the tanker and that Lotus)
Octopussy (a sixties-style Bond with a [then] contemporary theme)
The Living Daylights (without a 59-year-old Roger Moore!)
Die Another Day (yes, I know, but it was part of a really great Christmas)

Those are my essentials - not because they were especially great (some of them take a lot of critical flak) but simply because they appealed to me.

My least favorites include:

AVTAK (57-yr-old Roger, Tanya Roberts and a plot out of Superman)
Moonraker (loved it as a kid, but it's still silly sci-fi)
Licence to Kill (well written, acted & directed, but just too damn nasty)
From Russia With Love (excellent film, and a great break from spectacle, but not one I watch frequently)
TWINE (a taut thriller interrupted by gratuitous action scenes which do not advance the plot)

The rest - including NSNA but not CR '67 - occupy the middle ground as near-favorites.

So I don't actually hate any of them; they all have their merits. For instance, I would probably rate Goldfinger higher if it weren't the only one I'd never had the chance to see on the big screen - that kind of exposure makes a difference.

As for the lead actors, I can't claim a favorite - as my lists indicate. Again, I don't hate any of them. It's too soon to say which of Daniel Craig's outings is my favorite, although I'll admit I like Casino Royale better of the two so far. Maybe after the next one, if the gun barrel's back in the right place, the White Keyes stay away from the theme song and Bond gets to look like like he's enjoying himself for a change, I'll have a new entry for list #1.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Dr. No -- While historically important, Ursula Andress' Honey Ryder is the most overrated Bond girl.

From Russia With Love -- Rosa Klebb is one of my least favorite villains.

Goldfinger -- Shirley Bassey's Goldfinger is one of my least favorite Bond themes.

Thunderball -- The underwater climax is exciting and perfect as it is.

You Only Live Twice -- Nancy Sinatra's theme song is just okay.

On Her Majesty's Secret Service -- Diana Rigg's Tracy di Vicenzo is closer to middle of the road among Bond girls than the top.

Diamonds Are Forever -- DAF is a really good, fun film. Sean Connery looks better here than in Never Say Never Again.

Live And Let Die -- Sheriff J.W. Pepper is absolutely hilarious and is an asset to the cast.

The Man With The Golden Gun -- Lulu's theme song is vastly underrated. While the stunt is better off without it, the slide whistle during the 360-degree jump is not a scene killer.

The Spy Who Loved Me -- Karl Stromberg is one of the best villains of the series.

Moonraker -- Bond should have gone into space.

For Your Eyes Only -- I'm glad Ernst Stavro Blofeld came back and was given an appropriate sendoff (death). Bill Conti's score is among the best of the series. I like Max the parrot--and his scenes. And I like the end scene with Margaret Thatcher.

Octopussy -- Rita Coolidge's All Time High is the best ballad of the series. This is Roger Moore's best 007 film. Kamal Khan is the second best villain of the series (behind Franz Sanchez). Gobinda is the third best henchman of the series (behind Jaws and Oddjob). I approve of the clown outfit at the U.S. Air Force base--it makes absolute perfect sense for the scene. I think Octopussy is the most underrated film of the series.

Never Say Never Again -- Nigel Small-Fawcett is moderately funny. (I had a hard time with this film because I think most/all of my opinions on this one follow the majority.)

A View To A Kill -- Bond's liaison with May Day doesn't creep me out--and under the scene's circumstances I even approve of it.

The Living Daylights -- Brad Whitaker is a solid villain--the most underrated of the series.

Licence To Kill -- The best film of the series. Franz Sanchez is the best villain of the series. Pam Bouvier is the best girl of the series. Timothy Dalton's reaction upon seeing Della Churchill's body is the worst acted scene by a 007 actor in the series.

GoldenEye -- Xenia Onatopp is the best femme fatale of the series. The dive after the plane in the PTS doesn't bother me (although I wish they'd done it for real).

Tomorrow Never Dies -- The PTS is the best in the series. David Arnold's best score.

The World Is Not Enough -- Garbage's theme song is a great song. EON should have used Scott Walker's Only Myself To Blame as the closing song. It's a good tune.

Die Another Day -- Madonna's theme song isn't as bad as many say. Same goes for Jinx Johnson. I even don't mind the invisible car (Bond has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to technology and such technology is being worked on as we speak.) Pierce Brosnan is my favorite James Bond.

Casino Royale -- Le Chiffre is a little overrated as a villain.

Quantum Of Solace -- The most overrated Bond film by far. Bond's dumping of Rene Mathis' body is THE ABSOLUTE WORST SCENE of the series--totally un-Bondian.

[john.steed]

I agree with you on somethings and disagree with you on other. This is one that I strongly agree with:

Quantum Of Solace -- The most overrated Bond film by far. Bond's dumping of Rene Mathis' body is THE ABSOLUTE WORST SCENE of the series--totally un-Bondian.

[Fiona Volpe lover]

This miht be my second go at this but anyway....

YOLT is the best Connery
MR is the best Moore
DAD is the best Brosnan
QOS is the worst Bond of all
GF is one of Connery's weakest
TSWLM is one of Moore's weakest
GE is definately Brosnan's weakest
Connery's best performance was in TB
Moore's best peformance was in TMWTGG
Brosnan's best performance was in TND
George Lazenby should have done more Bonds
Felix Leiter is pointless in most of the films and has never been really done right
TB's underwater battle is one of the best climaxes ever
David Arnold is pretty poor except when copying John Barry
Many of the silly things in the Moore films,such as Kung Fu,Sheriff Pepper etc.add to the films
Xenia Onatopp is one of the worst Bond girls
Holly Goodhead is one of the best and one of the most gorgeous

That'll do...for now!

[00Twelve]

Bond's dumping of Rene Mathis' body is THE ABSOLUTE WORST SCENE of the series--totally un-Bondian.

I can't think of a single reason that could justify that viewpoint. "Bondian" is an evolving term; it's not set in stone (and certainly not by us, for damn sure). And there is no better alternative under the sun for dealing with the body.

Sorry, I know this thread's about not having to justify one's unique viewpoints. I'm sure you can argue just as strongly about one of mine. Hope it doesn't offend too terribly; I just had to make a case.

[tdalton]

Bond's dumping of Rene Mathis' body is THE ABSOLUTE WORST SCENE of the series--totally un-Bondian.

I can't think of a single reason that could justify that viewpoint. "Bondian" is an evolving term; it's not set in stone (and certainly not by us, for damn sure). And there is no better alternative under the sun for dealing with the body.

Sorry, I know this thread's about not having to justify one's unique viewpoints. I'm sure you can argue just as strongly about one of mine. Hope it doesn't offend too terribly; I just had to make a case.

I'd argue the opposite that it's actually a very "Bondian" scene. Ian Fleming's James Bond is a cold-hearted, ruthless individual who really isn't all that much better than the people that he's tasked with dealing with, and the scene with Mathis in the street in QOS is an example of that.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Bond would never treat a friend and ally that way--callously tossing his body in a dumpster. Yes, he would stay with him in the street as he died and he might move him if circumstances dictated, but he wouldn't toss him in with a bunch of garbage regardless of whether that person would have cared or not.

And the scene itself is pointless. Bond's not hiding Mathis to buy time as many have said on these forums. Mathis' arm and leg are clearly seen dangling over the edge so who is Bond fooling? Plus, if you are to make the argument that the dumpster is like a coffin, (which I wouldn't) wouldn't it be respectful to place him COMPLETELY inside rather than haphazardly half in, half out. As for the time element, it would only time him two seconds to put the arm and leg inside.

If Bond really wanted to throw off the police and give them some pause, it would have made more sense to prop Mathis up AGAINST the dumpster and give him the gun he'd used to kill the motorcycle cops. That way, the Bolivian cops would have had to consider that Mathis came to enough to kill the cops.

Regardless, as I said before, Bond would not treat his friends that way. NOWHERE in the books or films does Bond do anything remotely like this. Yes, he's done similar things to villains but NEVER to friends, hence his treatment of Mathis' body in Quantum Of Solace is UN-BONDIAN.

[00Twelve]

We differ on how much respect Bond is required to show a corpse in dangerous situations. I'll venture to say that the Vijay scene is "un-Bondian" (see how flexible that term is?), as nowhere in the books would Bond ever stoop over even a friend with piteous furrowed brow and say some meaningless epitaph like "no more problems." But then, Moore always did define his own Bond; one can't accuse him of sticking to the source material all that often.

[Cruiserweight]

Samantha Bond's "Moneypenny" was a straight-up whore.

And i love it!

[Cruiserweight]

Dr. No -- While historically important, Ursula Andress' Honey Ryder is the most overrated Bond girl.

Goldfinger -- Shirley Bassey's Goldfinger is one of my least favorite Bond themes.

Thunderball -- The underwater climax is exciting and perfect as it is.

You Only Live Twice -- Nancy Sinatra's theme song is just okay.

Diamonds Are Forever -- DAF is a really good, fun film. Sean Connery looks better here than in Never Say Never Again.

Live And Let Die -- Sheriff J.W. Pepper is absolutely hilarious and is an asset to the cast.

The Man With The Golden Gun -- Lulu's theme song is vastly underrated. While the stunt is better off without it, the slide whistle during the 360-degree jump is not a scene killer.

The Spy Who Loved Me -- Karl Stromberg is one of the best villains of the series.

Moonraker -- Bond should have gone into space.

For Your Eyes Only -- I'm glad Ernst Stavro Blofeld came back and was given an appropriate sendoff (death). Bill Conti's score is among the best of the series. I like Max the parrot--and his scenes. And I like the end scene with Margaret Thatcher.

Octopussy -- Rita Coolidge's All Time High is the best ballad of the series. This is Roger Moore's best 007 film. Kamal Khan is the second best villain of the series (behind Franz Sanchez). Gobinda is the third best henchman of the series (behind Jaws and Oddjob). I approve of the clown outfit at the U.S. Air Force base--it makes absolute perfect sense for the scene. I think Octopussy is the most underrated film of the series.

A View To A Kill -- Bond's liaison with May Day doesn't creep me out--and under the scene's circumstances I even approve of it.

The Living Daylights -- Brad Whitaker is a solid villain--the most underrated of the series.

Agree

[hilly]

Norman Burton- AS Felix Leiter he was adequate. Given the fact that the main selling point of DAF was Connery's return, they could have had anyone play Felix and it wouldn't have made a jot of difference.