24 replies to this topic

[HildebrandRarity]

Does anyone in here know if we are going to witness a fight between a cobra and a mongoose on camera?

Is it going to be brutal/bloody/real?

Will there be subtext?

(It seems very Fleming if it is...kinda like the siamese fighting fish, or tarantula, or scorpion, or sharks, or piranah fish of the old days)

Thanks.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 17 October 2006 - 01:13 AM.

[Harmsway]

Does anyone in here know if we are going to witness a fight between a cobra and a mongoose on camera?

If the December draft is accurate on this point, we will.

Is it going to be brutal/bloody/real?

I have no idea.

Will there be subtext?

Depends what you mean by subtext - if you want to turn it into a symbol, you could, but the film isn't naturally going to hand that to you. It's not a major element of a scene; it's just what a large crowd is watching in Madagascar (along with the bomber, Mollaka).

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

Spoiler

There is and should look real although I don't know how brutal it will look. It's there to set up the mood and athmosphear of the following sequence. It's the beginning of the chase in Madagascar and is where Bond and his co-agent Carter are shadowing Mollaka. It does add that kind of exotic feel with something you don't see everyday. There should be real tension. You got hundreds of men yelling and cheering the aniamls on while they bet and adds a sense of danger and energy. There is a Fleming-esque vibe.

[Vauxhall]

Yes - should look most realistic. I believe that were using an abandoned swimming pool in a hotel in The Bahamas as the pit in which the fight would be taking place. Will look quite impressive with dozens of people crammed in and watching the mongoose and snake in action.

[JCRendle]

CGI or real - I couldnt work it out from the script

[Vauxhall]

CGI or real - I couldnt work it out from the script

I do seem to remember reading about some reptiles being loaned out to the production team, and the assumption was that they were snakes for the Madagascar sequence. Although with rules about animal cruelty, I guess there may be a mix of real shots and CGI if it does get brutal.

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

I could be wrong but from what I heard the actual animals fighting will be real but they will use CGI to insert them into the empty swimming pool.

[Vauxhall]

I could be wrong but from what I heard the actual animals fighting will be real but they will use CGI to insert them into the empty swimming pool.

Now you mention it, that does seem familiar. Perhaps there was an old news story about it? I'll have a look around.

[HildebrandRarity]

There's no point in having a cgi animal fight. The audience will IMMEDIATELY roll its collective eyes if it is cgi.

I read last year (or early this year) that the fight between the two hateful enemies was caught for real in Africa...that it is REAL action (like the sharks being gunned and speared in Thunderball...but in this case the action on camera not being deliberately staged for the production team) from a real location.

If it was filmed, it would be sad to see it not make the final cut for 'animal cruelty' reasons given that it is a documented piece of actual footage.

It certainly is Fleming, isn't it and in keeping with the exotic deadly animal vibe of the past?

[Qwerty]

Man. This must be one of the oddest Casino Royale thread titles if one hasn't read the script or parts of it.

[HildebrandRarity]

Man. This must be one of the oddest Casino Royale thread titles if one hasn't read the script or parts of it.

Yea, but I don't have the script... I did, however, read about this fight somewhere even BEFORE Eva Green and Mads were cast...I don't know where I read it but it seemed awsome and very Flemingesque at the time.

I'm hoping it makes the final cut because it lends the element of the BIZZARE (along with Le Chiffre's 'tears of blood/diseased eye' quirk) which is a hallmark of the entire Bond canon both literary and cinematic and something which separates it from the other action movies.

Did it make the final draft or cut?

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 17 October 2006 - 02:02 AM.

[Harmsway]

Did it make the final draft or cut?

As far as I'm aware, yes, it did.

[HildebrandRarity]

Did it make the final draft or cut?

As far as I'm aware, yes, it did.

Awsome! Thanks, Harmsway. Hope the animal rights people don't get their nickers in a twist and engineer a boycott of Casino Royale. He he...it actually might even boost the box office. LOL!!!

Btw, given what you guys know about the script, is there a possibility that the titles sequence actually segues into/onto the cobra and mongoose attacking each other?

It would certainly be a surreal moment and could be a smooth transition between Kleinmann's work on this one and the body of the film.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 17 October 2006 - 02:13 AM.

[Qwerty]

Man. This must be one of the oddest Casino Royale thread titles if one hasn't read the script or parts of it.

Yea, but I don't have the script... I did, however, read about this fight somewhere even BEFORE Eva Green and Mads were cast...I don't know where I read it but it seemed awsome and very Flemingesque at the time.

This was definitely something I personally was pretty much unaware of before the script.

[Harmsway]

Btw, given what you guys know about the script, is there a possibility that the titles sequence actually segues into/onto the cobra and mongoose attacking each other?

Yeah - it's possible that the main titles would open on a shot of the cobra/mongoose fight.

[JimmyBond]

Btw, given what you guys know about the script, is there a possibility that the titles sequence actually segues into/onto the cobra and mongoose attacking each other?

Yeah - it's possible that the main titles would open on a shot of the cobra/mongoose fight.

Except that there is another scene before the Madagascar action sequence. I find it hard to believe they'd alter the order of sequences in the film.

[Harmsway]

Btw, given what you guys know about the script, is there a possibility that the titles sequence actually segues into/onto the cobra and mongoose attacking each other?

Yeah - it's possible that the main titles would open on a shot of the cobra/mongoose fight.

Except that there is another scene before the Madagascar action sequence. I find it hard to believe they'd alter the order of sequences in the film.

Ah yes, I forgot about that.

[Pussfeller]

Did it make the final draft or cut?

As far as I'm aware, yes, it did.

Hope the animal rights people don't get their nickers in a twist and engineer a boycott of Casino Royale.

If the producers put real animals in danger, it would be foolish not to expect some kind of penalty. I don't think they would risk damaging the film by doing something irresponsible.

I don't see how the Cobra/Mongoose fight could be done without CGI or some kind of special effects. That doesn't mean it has to be a DAD paragliding fiasco.

[HildebrandRarity]

Did it make the final draft or cut?

As far as I'm aware, yes, it did.

Hope the animal rights people don't get their nickers in a twist and engineer a boycott of Casino Royale.

If the producers put real animals in danger, it would be foolish not to expect some kind of penalty. I don't think they would risk damaging the film by doing something irresponsible.

I don't see how the Cobra/Mongoose fight could be done without CGI or some kind of special effects. That doesn't mean it has to be a DAD paragliding fiasco.

Perhaps they saw this type of gambling/betting activity during scouting in Africa and filmed the real thing documentary style like Coppola did with the steer being hacked/chopped down/up for Apocalypse Now.

[Pussfeller]

They'd still be profiting from animal cruelty, whether or not they initiated it. Even back in 1979, Coppola caught a lot of for using that cow chopping thing, even though he didn't arrange it. The problem is that he exploited it for financial gain. I don't entirely agree with that logic, but there it is. And even assuming the producers have no compassion for animals whatsoever, I doubt they would risk breaking any labor laws or safety codes. Such a fight, if real, could result in an extra being injured, and unlike animals, extras can sue.

Anyway, a real fight might actually be less entertaining than one contrived using special effects and creative editing. A real fight might be repetitive and boringly slow. On the other hand it could be ridiculously fast, a blur in the corner of a shot. No one knows until it's over. Perhaps the animals would refuse to fight or one would escape. These are animals, not actors, and they can't be controlled. What if one of the animals expired without contributing a usable take? Would they buy ten cobras and ten mongooses just in case? Producers don't like vagaries like that. When you stop and look at all the contingencies, faking it would be the only option.

With a little imagination, a realistic and entertaining effect could be achieved. Just as a guess, perhaps they filmed the animals separately, each attacking a little green prop or something, and then digitally combined the images. Perhaps the mongoose was real and they used a mechanical snake augmented by CGI. I don't know. But however they did it, you can be sure they didn't just throw the creatures into an empty swimming pool and film them going at it.

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

They'd still be profiting from animal cruelty, whether or not they initiated it. Even back in 1979, Coppola caught a lot of for using that cow chopping thing, even though he didn't arrange it. The problem is that he exploited it for financial gain. I don't entirely agree with that logic, but there it is. And even assuming the producers have no compassion for animals whatsoever, I doubt they would risk breaking any labor laws or safety codes. Such a fight, if real, could result in an extra being injured, and unlike animals, extras can sue.

Anyway, a real fight might actually be less entertaining than one contrived using special effects and creative editing. A real fight might be repetitive and boringly slow. On the other hand it could be ridiculously fast, a blur in the corner of a shot. No one knows until it's over. Perhaps the animals would refuse to fight or one would escape. These are animals, not actors, and they can't be controlled. What if one of the animals expired without contributing a usable take? Would they buy ten cobras and ten mongooses just in case? Producers don't like vagaries like that. When you stop and look at all the contingencies, faking it would be the only option.

With a little imagination, a realistic and entertaining effect could be achieved. Just as a guess, perhaps they filmed the animals separately, each attacking a little green prop or something, and then digitally combined the images. Perhaps the mongoose was real and they used a mechanical snake augmented by CGI. I don't know. But however they did it, you can be sure they didn't just throw the creatures into an empty swimming pool and film them going at it.

Well they did not film the aniamls going at it at the bottom of a swimming pool. It was in one of the articles that said they had over a hundred extras around a empty swimming poola dn they were supposed to be watching a mongoose/cobra fight but the pool was empty and the animals would be digitally inserted in post-pro. Now I also know they had a real snake handler providing reptiles for the production so there will be a real snake and maybe they did use somekind of greenscreen to put the animals together. Either way the animals will most likely be real but the fight may not.

[Pussfeller]

That's what I would expect. If they tried to do it with totally CGI animals, it would probably be lousy. But I doubt they would even have the animals in sight of each other unless they were both heavily doped, so I expect (and hope) some kind of clever, minimalist CGI will be used to combine them. I really hope they don't go George Lucas on us with close-ups and such. The scene could be done very well without showing much actual sparring at all.

[Scamp]

Yes it's in, exactly where and as it says in the script.

[Vauxhall]

Yes it's in, exactly where and as it says in the script.

Excellent; thanks. Is it particularly violent and bloody, or does it simply act as a bit of dressing for the scene?

[Scamp]

Introduction AND background/dressing I would say!