35 replies to this topic

[Niwram]

http://www.contracos...l=cctimes_state

Now THAT'S dictatorship!

[MarcAngeDraco]

Now THAT'S dictatorship!

So, you think it's okay to post death threats on your web page?....

[Johnboy007]

Had she been incarcerated or beaten or expelled, I might agree. But I don't consider a 15 minute talk that didn't result in any charges to be a huge deal.

So, as the title asks: not very sick and twisted.

[Four Aces]

Not sick, not twisted.

Those laws have been on the books for years, and those types of "jokes" are taken just as seriously as jokes about bombs at airports, or on airplanes.

It's got nothing to do with Bush, or "dictatorship". It has everything to do with protecting an elected US President.

4A

[Loomis]

...the agents were justified in questioning her over her MySpace.com posting. ...agents went too far by not waiting until she was out of school and questioning her without a parent present. ...the agents should have more quickly figured out they weren't dealing with a real danger.


I agree with all of those statements.

[Skudor]

I agree with Loomis. The SS needed to investigate this as they do with all possible death threats and the girl did (apparently) break some laws. But to pull her out of class and scare her like this seems unneccessary. Her parents, or at least a teacher, should also have been present.

[DamnCoffee]

Agreed, a 14 year old girl shouldn't have to go through that on her own.

[Byron]

It has everything to do with protecting an elected US President.

4A
[/quote]


I, like many people do not believe that Bush is a legitimately elected President. After all he was made president by the Supreme Court in 2000 and not the people.
That whole election should have been re-run and the people decide who shall be president not some unelected court.

[homerjbond]

I, like many people do not believe that Bush is a legitimately elected President. After all he was made president by the Supreme Court in 2000 and not the people.
That whole election should have been re-run and the people decide who shall be president not some unelected court.

Moot point, when they finally finished the recount in Florida, Bush won by 500-something votes. The Supreme Court made the right decision.

Don't worry, only 2 more years of this "dictatorship"

[Four Aces]

Agreed, a 14 year old girl shouldn't have to go through that on her own.

A 14-yr old girl shouldn't be posting stuff like that either.

I, like many people do not believe that Bush is a legitimately elected President. After all he was made president by the Supreme Court in 2000 and not the people.
That whole election should have been re-run and the people decide who shall be president not some unelected court.

The election is not the issue, nor the topic of this thread.

4A

Edited by Four Aces, 16 October 2006 - 12:52 AM.

[Four Aces]

I agree with Loomis. The SS needed to investigate this as they do with all possible death threats and the girl did (apparently) break some laws. But to pull her out of class and scare her like this seems unneccessary. Her parents, or at least a teacher, should also have been present.

Since this thread is really intended to be an anti-US thread and/or anti-Bush thread, which arise here on CBn from time-to-time, let's keep a few things in mind:

1. MI-5, IRL, is much more into the violation of UK subject privacy rights than anything we have here in the US, with or without the Patriot Act. The FBI or CIA doesn't even come close to the 'SS' investigative practices on UK subjects within Dear 'ol England.

2. Most of the problems out there in the 3rd World are due to European Colonialism. This includes most of the problems in the Arab world which are a legacy of UK meddling and the drawing of borders without regards to any of the cultural aspects of the regions UK/Europe invaded. The UK and Europe should take responsibility for the Israel/Palestine mess also. Your legacy, not ours. At least we didn't float people all about out on ships after WW2.

3. George Bush pales in comparison to the UK's Robert Clive.

So there! Haha!

4A

[Mamadou]

I know that, while I was in high school, my parents instructed me not to answer questions from any law enforcement officer (even the cop in my school) until one of them was with me. I think that's the right way to go, unless a cop can show that they have good reason to question the minor alone. So I agree with mharkin and Skudor.

And, about her post, let me put it this way: she's a teenager, and teenagers do things like that. When I was in high school--her age, in fact--some friends and I made up new lyrics to "We're Off to See the Wizard" (from the "The Wizard of Oz"), which became "We're Off to Kill the President." It was for fun.

I think the Secret Service overreacted a little bit: after all, what kind of threat does a 14-year-old girl from an affluent neighborhood in Sacramento pose? Not much. And how can the Secret Service have the resources to investigate every threat made against the President? Considering the amount of mail that goes to the White House, many probably come in every day. They've got to prioritize, and they seem to have forgotten how.

[DamnCoffee]

Agreed, a 14 year old girl shouldn't have to go through that on her own.

A 14-yr old girl shouldn't posting stuff like that either.

Are you calling me a 14 year old girl?

[Four Aces]

I know that, while I was in high school, my parents instructed me not to answer questions from any law enforcement officer...after all, what kind of threat does a 14-year-old girl from an affluent neighborhood in Sacramento pose? Not much.

You mean an affluent neighborhood like where Columbine High School is located? Yeah right Poor little innocent teenage upper-middle class murderers.

Law enforcement officers, globally, may question minors with or without the parents present, and without parental permission. Parental permission does not trump legal authority. If you don't like those laws, then write to your Congressman to change them. Posting about it here will accomplish nothing.

4A

Edited by Four Aces, 15 October 2006 - 06:31 PM.

[Righty007]

A death threat against ANYONE should be investigated. Joking about killing somebody isn't funny.

[Byron]

[quote name='Byron' post='626900' date='15 October 2006 - 10:15']
I, like many people do not believe that Bush is a legitimately elected President. After all he was made president by the Supreme Court in 2000 and not the people.
That whole election should have been re-run and the people decide who shall be president not some unelected court.
[/quote]

The election is not the issue, nor the topic of this thread.

4A
[/quote]

Oh great, the CBN police is on the beat.

[Pam Bouvier]

I know that, while I was in high school, my parents instructed me not to answer questions from any law enforcement officer (even the cop in my school) until one of them was with me. I think that's the right way to go, unless a cop can show that they have good reason to question the minor alone. So I agree with mharkin and Skudor.

And, about her post, let me put it this way: she's a teenager, and teenagers do things like that. When I was in high school--her age, in fact--some friends and I made up new lyrics to "We're Off to See the Wizard" (from the "The Wizard of Oz"), which became "We're Off to Kill the President." It was for fun.

I think the Secret Service overreacted a little bit: after all, what kind of threat does a 14-year-old girl from an affluent neighborhood in Sacramento pose? Not much. And how can the Secret Service have the resources to investigate every threat made against the President? Considering the amount of mail that goes to the White House, many probably come in every day. They've got to prioritize, and they seem to have forgotten how.

[color=#6633FF]You're right "that's what teenagers do"...but maybe that's not what teenagers SHOULD do. Let me tell you something about teenagers, they can be the meanest, nastiest, most dangerous people on the planet. I teach them. I see what they do to each other and what they try to do to adults. They know damn well it's a crime to threaten the President, they are taught about that in grades 5, 8, and 11 when they read the Constitution as per Ca. state content standards for social science. They need to learn there is a limit to the crap they can pull.
I am no fan of our President. However, I am a fan of our system of government. Public officials have a right to be safe. If you think a middle class 14 year old couldn't carry of that kind of threat, talk to the family of the Principal that was shot a few weeks ago in Wis. or any teacher, cop, or school adminstrator. The secret service was right to talk to her. I wish she HAD done what you say your were taught to do..not cooperate. Maybe she'd of found her in juvie where it belonged for a few hours, instead of on the TV news acting like it was a BIG joke.

Edited by Pam Bouvier, 16 October 2006 - 07:43 PM.

[Bon-san]

I agree with Loomis. The SS needed to investigate this as they do with all possible death threats and the girl did (apparently) break some laws. But to pull her out of class and scare her like this seems unneccessary. Her parents, or at least a teacher, should also have been present.

Since this thread is really intended to be an anti-US thread and/or anti-Bush thread, which arise here on CBn from time-to-time, let's keep a few things in mind:

1. MI-5, IRL, is much more into the violation of UK subject privacy rights than anything we have here in the US, with or without the Patriot Act. The FBI or CIA doesn't even come close to the 'SS' investigative practices on UK subjects within Dear 'ol England.

2. Most of the problems out there in the 3rd World are due to European Colonialism. This includes most of the problems in the Arab world which are a legacy of UK meddling and the drawing of borders without regards to any of the cultural aspects of the regions UK/Europe invaded. The UK and Europe should take responsibility for the Israel/Palestine mess also. Your legacy, not ours. At least we didn't float people all about out on ships after WW2.

3. George Bush pales in comparison to the UK's Robert Clive.

So there! Haha!

4A

If the 'I don't like it that I am inferring that someone is being critical of the US, so I'm going to post some really salaciously critical stuff in re the UK' business gets going again, I will personally ban all posts like this one.

[Mister Asterix]

Good for the Secret Service.

A threat against the life of anyone — much less the President — should be dealt with immediately.

I find it ‘sick and twisted’ that people would have a problem with this. If the threats were against you would you want the little girl to be able to finish her school day?

[hcmv007]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='627547' date='16 October 2006 - 08:57']
[mra]Good for the Secret Service.

A threat against the life of anyone

[Four Aces]

I agree with Loomis. The SS needed to investigate this as they do with all possible death threats and the girl did (apparently) break some laws. But to pull her out of class and scare her like this seems unneccessary. Her parents, or at least a teacher, should also have been present.

Since this thread is really intended to be an anti-US thread and/or anti-Bush thread, which arise here on CBn from time-to-time, let's keep a few things in mind:

1. MI-5, IRL, is much more into the violation of UK subject privacy rights than anything we have here in the US, with or without the Patriot Act. The FBI or CIA doesn't even come close to the 'SS' investigative practices on UK subjects within Dear 'ol England.

2. Most of the problems out there in the 3rd World are due to European Colonialism. This includes most of the problems in the Arab world which are a legacy of UK meddling and the drawing of borders without regards to any of the cultural aspects of the regions UK/Europe invaded. The UK and Europe should take responsibility for the Israel/Palestine mess also. Your legacy, not ours. At least we didn't float people all about out on ships after WW2.

3. George Bush pales in comparison to the UK's Robert Clive.

So there! Haha!

4A

If the 'I don't like it that I am inferring that someone is being critical of the US, so I'm going to post some really salaciously critical stuff in re the UK' business gets going again, I will personally ban all posts like this one.

There's no inference at all. Claiming "dictatorship" in the world's oldest democracy, as did the OP, is a direct statement that requires no inference whatsoever.

In this case, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. So ban away if you feel justified. Just ensure you aren't being biased in your ajudication, and that true sentiments aren't being masked under the disguise of righteous indignation.

4A

P.S. Not a big Bush supporter myself. Capsice?

Edited by Four Aces, 16 October 2006 - 03:49 PM.

[Jim]

There's no inference at all. Claiming "dictatorship" in the world's oldest democracy, as did the OP, is a direct statement that requires no inference whatsoever.

But it didn't even mention San Marino.

[Skudor]

I agree with Loomis. The SS needed to investigate this as they do with all possible death threats and the girl did (apparently) break some laws. But to pull her out of class and scare her like this seems unneccessary. Her parents, or at least a teacher, should also have been present.

Since this thread is really intended to be an anti-US thread and/or anti-Bush thread, which arise here on CBn from time-to-time, let's keep a few things in mind:

1. MI-5, IRL, is much more into the violation of UK subject privacy rights than anything we have here in the US, with or without the Patriot Act. The FBI or CIA doesn't even come close to the 'SS' investigative practices on UK subjects within Dear 'ol England.

2. Most of the problems out there in the 3rd World are due to European Colonialism. This includes most of the problems in the Arab world which are a legacy of UK meddling and the drawing of borders without regards to any of the cultural aspects of the regions UK/Europe invaded. The UK and Europe should take responsibility for the Israel/Palestine mess also. Your legacy, not ours. At least we didn't float people all about out on ships after WW2.

3. George Bush pales in comparison to the UK's Robert Clive.

So there! Haha!

4A

Who's Robert Clive?

I don't think there is anything in my reply, which you copied above, that has anything whatsoever to do with Anti Americanism. Regardless of what they can or cannot legally do I don't think it is appropriate to deal with a 14 year old in this way. That has got nothing to do with George Bush, who has nothing to do with this apart being the President in question. I doubt the secret service would have dealt with this any differently had it been Kerry or Gore in that picture.

[Loomis]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='627547' date='16 October 2006 - 14:57']
[mra]Good for the Secret Service.

A threat against the life of anyone

[Four Aces]

I agree with Loomis. The SS needed to investigate this as they do with all possible death threats and the girl did (apparently) break some laws. But to pull her out of class and scare her like this seems unneccessary. Her parents, or at least a teacher, should also have been present.

Since this thread is really intended to be an anti-US thread and/or anti-Bush thread, which arise here on CBn from time-to-time, let's keep a few things in mind:

1. MI-5, IRL, is much more into the violation of UK subject privacy rights than anything we have here in the US, with or without the Patriot Act. The FBI or CIA doesn't even come close to the 'SS' investigative practices on UK subjects within Dear 'ol England.

2. Most of the problems out there in the 3rd World are due to European Colonialism. This includes most of the problems in the Arab world which are a legacy of UK meddling and the drawing of borders without regards to any of the cultural aspects of the regions UK/Europe invaded. The UK and Europe should take responsibility for the Israel/Palestine mess also. Your legacy, not ours. At least we didn't float people all about out on ships after WW2.

3. George Bush pales in comparison to the UK's Robert Clive.

So there! Haha!

4A

Who's Robert Clive?

I don't think there is anything in my reply, which you copied above, that has anything whatsoever to do with Anti Americanism. Regardless of what they can or cannot legally do I don't think it is appropriate to deal with a 14 year old in this way. That has got nothing to do with George Bush, who has nothing to do with this apart being the President in question. I doubt the secret service would have dealt with this any differently had it been Kerry or Gore in that picture.

Skudor,

You are correct. My apologies. I equated your "SS" in the same vein as the OP with regards to "dictatorship" as in Hitler, and as in Hitler's "SS". My displeasure is with the OP at the statement that the world's oldest demcoracy is a "dictatorship". Doesn't matter whether we like Bush or not. He was elected. And even if many don't agree, then due process was followed in our system via the courts. That's the way it goes.

If you are British, then you should know who Robert Clive is.

4A

BTW, 4A, no one's suggesting that the UK or anywhere else is perfect.

Yeah, yeah, I know. That's exactly my point. It just gets me when these country bashers come out with this type of tripe. "Dictatorship" indeed. You and I have seen this type of labelling nonsense here before. Nobody's closet is clean.

BTW, where is my buddy Chimera01, we can chat up about the House of Oranj again By the way, educate Skudor on Robert Clive, since I believe Skudor is one of your own

4A

[Mister Asterix]

Good for the Secret Service.

A threat against the life of anyone — much less the President — should be dealt with immediately.

I find it ‘sick and twisted’ that people would have a problem with this. If the threats were against you would you want the little girl to be able to finish her school day?

But the President of the United States is about a million times more protected than I am. This is not, of course, to say that anything goes, but look at it this way:

We're told that this girl "replaced the page last spring after learning in her eighth-grade history class that such threats are a federal offense", but that the authorities, having noticed the site and placed her on their "checklist", "finally reached her this week in her molecular biology class". (Admittedly, the article does not state clearly and unambiguously that there was a long gap between the website being noticed and the questioning of the girl, but that's the impression I get from reading it.)

So it would seem that this teenager - in Sacramento - was hardly viewed as an imminent or even likely threat, otherwise why a delay of months before questioning her? So, yes, she should have been able to finish her school day.

BTW, 4A, no one's suggesting that the UK or anywhere else is perfect.

Not knowing what the President’s schedule is, other than he was here last week, I’ve no idea how imminent the threat was. And is taking down a threat after making it make it any less of a Federal offence? She still committed the crime. I see no reason to coddle her.

And since the Governor Schwarzenegger is a large supporter of the President, and Sacramento is the capital of his state, ‘imminent threat’ may always apply.

[Skudor]

If you are British, then you should know who Robert Clive is.

I'm not. Please enlighten me.

PS - the use of "SS" was unfortunate, I can see how that could be misconstrued. Was just being lazy.

[Four Aces]

If you are British, then you should know who Robert Clive is.

I'm not. Please enlighten me.

PS - the use of "SS" was unfortunate, I can see how that could be misconstrued. Was just being lazy.

Robert Clive

Many villainize him, kinda like the Conquistadores. However, it can not be denied that he was a man of his times.

4A

[Skudor]

Thanks. Interesting chap, although I fail to see what link he has to this. Never mind.

[DLibrasnow]

Didn't read the whole thread but I am sure you are aware that it is a federal offence to threaten the president.

I, like many people do not believe that Bush is a legitimately elected President. After all he was made president by the Supreme Court in 2000 and not the people.

But he was elected president in 2004 by the voters. So he is "a legitimately elected President"