28 replies to this topic

[IndyJones]

I think Bruce Ferstien should be hired to write Bond 21 because he rewrote the screenplay of The World Is Not Enough and it ended up being good and he did the same for Goldeneye. He also wrote Tomorrow Never Dies but I'm not sure if Die Another Day will be good since he is not involved with writing it and DAD is written by the writers the Ferstein replaced for TWINE. So I think Ferstein is the best Bond writer since Richard Maibaim. So I think Ferstein should be hired to write Bond 21. Then it would be cool if one day I could write a Bond screenplay because I have an idea for a Bond movie and I told five friends of mine my idea and they loved it. I will say if my idea becomes a Bond movie then pay attention carefully to it because with some people may find it complex.

[Xenobia]

I am not sure how much BF had to do with TWINE...but I do think P&W did a good job with their part of TWINE...so I think DAD is in safe hands.

I would like to see Bond 21 be a fusion of Ferstein and Pervis and Wade.


-- Xenobia

[Blofeld's Cat]

I don't have firsthand knowledge on the matter, but from what I've heard of people who have read earlier drafts of various scripts, BF ruined eveything he touched.

Based on that, I don't want him near Bond ever again.

[Xenobia]

I don't know if BF ruins everything he touches...I think he did a lot to save TND...but I could be wrong. I also believe he is responsible for strengthening Bond in TWINE.

-- Xenobia

[zencat]

I think Eon should go with fresh blood for Bond 21. But lets see how DAD turns out. Maybe sticking with P&W is the way to go. Eon seems to really like them.

[Xenobia]

Zencat...thanks for the info. I remember reading in the making of TND that Ferstein was back for the final draft of TND...but that could have been a nice nice cover up.

Do you have any idea what he did for TWINE?

-- Xenobia

[General Koskov]

Well, to be fair, Feirstein got the PTS bang-on. The only difference is that there was nuclear material, rather than the encoder, being handled by Kim Dae Yung, rather than Henry Gupta. And Tanner (rather than Robinson) calls Bond 'Seven' rather than 'White Knight'--the 'code language' is dealing with cards rather than a chess game.

[zencat]

Originally posted by Xenobia
Zencat...thanks for the info.  I remember reading in the making of TND that Ferstein was back for the final draft of TND...but that could have been a nice nice cover up.

Yes, I heard Feirstein was there on the set rewriting the shooting draft during production. Got to give him credit -- I can't imagine the pressure in that..

[rafterman]

I don't want Bruce back, I'm not that impressed by his work on GE...and really disappointed with his TND...maybe he added some good stuff to TWINE...but from what I've heard he was more damaging to the film than helpful....I'm going to give P&W a chance with DAD...maybe some new blood for 21 would be good.....interesting to note that Meyer did some work on TND..he's a great writer...

[1q2w3e4r]

yep i dont want Bruce back either. whoever said he was given way to much credit was right, GE stood up well, but lets remember how long EON would have been working on the script before it went into production, it was the film that had to save the franchise.

But its not as good a film as TWINE, script and dialogue wise. TWINEs direction is better too, Martin Campbell did do a good job on the exotic locals especially in the beach scenes in GE and the casino job. But i liked TWINEs feel, it felt and looked as if it was shot as a nod to past films of the 60s. It reminds me much of OHMSS for some reason.

P&W have done a great job on TWINE, i dont think Feirnstein had that much influence on it, i think in all honesty he added a few of the one liners and maybe little else. He only came into polish it up, thats was his speciality as i understood it. Probably why TND is full of them.

P&E should stick with writing, EON needs to get them under contract before their prices go up too much. TWINE had sometime a lot of the films haven't had for a long time, substancial plot development, in depth characterisations and subtext. Something Bruce never managed.

Looking back on Brosnan's 3 TND is easily the weakest and the only one surrounded by troubled script rumours. Though it looked good on release, it is obviously the weakest looking back.

Lets hope EON keep P&W sign them, give them more money, get them prostitutes or give them one of the aston martins i don't really care. As long as they do bond 21 it'll be successful. TWINE actually had a script that made sense, after the first nerve jitters of doing a film as big as Bond, i think DAD will be substancially better written than TWINE.

And they kept Maiubalm (sp) on for how many films? 14-15-16? All were good except for the Tom Mankowitks (spelling again!) jobs of the early 70s... THATS IT!!!!!! Bruce was the 90s Tom!

[Dalton]

From what I remember P/W produced the first draft for TWINE, and Wilson/Broccoli wanted to 'Beef' up the women's roles in the film, this is where Dana Steven's came in (Incidentally, Apted's Wife). This caused problems because Bond was becoming a less important in the story, so Fierstein was brought in to 'Polish' the script and put Bond back where he belongs "On Top" so to speak.

I think that providing DAD is solid in terms of writing, that P/W should be back for B21. If Fierstein comes back let him polish and tweek the dialogue. That's what he is best at doing.

[Xenobia]

Ah...the plot thickens...

Whoever gave us Christmas Jones gets -5 points in my book, but I have ranted enough about her in other places, so we will just move on.

Again, from the making of TND book, it wasn't just the producers vs Spottswood...it was the Producers and everyone else but the immediate A cast against Spottswood. Pierce put a big show of support for his director that support, in part, brought everyone around to RS. (That and eventually, even with the crunch, the filming started to smooth out.)

I took give BF a lot of credit for working under such pressure with TND. Yes the story is somewhat weak...but frankly I lay that at the feet of Teri Hatcher not doing her job making her character believable and not giving us enough time with Carver and the crazy General in China to show us what meglomaniacs they are.

-- Xenobia

[General Koskov]

Actually Feirstein wrote a scene in Tomorrow Never Dies where Carver (Harmsway) is selling his office tower in Hong Kong to General Chang (Li) before the takeover. Somehow his helicopter is rigged so that when Harmsway leaves from atop the tower, a line pulls a ventilation duct and it falls on General Li and his guards. But Christmas neutralises any points Feirstein got for that scene! What kind of a name is Christmas anyway? I mean it's not blatantly 'sexy' like Plenty O'Toole, so it's like Fierstien went halfway with the name.

[Tanger]

Er, zencat, who's Zuronosky?

[zencat]

Originally posted by Tanger
Er, zencat, who's Zuronosky?

Whoops. Guess it's spelled, Zukovsky. Damn Russians!

[Xenobia]

Ah...it's the effort that counts Zencat, not the spelling.

I think I will start a separate thread..."Who should never write a Bond movie."

-- Xenobia

[rubixcub]

I know for a fact he wrote the Q goodbye scene, so he gets points for that.

I think Feirstein is better at balancing the various aspects of the screenplay than P & W. He has said that the action has to further the plot, and in his films it did. The action scenes in TWINE seemed to interrupt the film's continuity rather than sustain it. They were cursory, over before they began, and hardly as exciting as their predecessors. I would say most of the action scenes in TWINE were like the action scenes out of a Mankiewicz-written Bond (and I hate Mankiewicz. How could the son of such a great director as Joseph L. Mankiewicz inherit none of the talent?)

P & W have a tendency to push the dialogue too far. The confrontation scenes between Bond & Elektra are over-the-top overdramatic. They reminded me of a soap opera. When Elektra says "How dare you!" and slaps Bond I almost laughed. Of course, that's also Apted's fault for directing it as such, plus the directors do have some script input and if I were him I would have re-written that scene, on the spot if necessary. I only hope that P & W go ahead with the characterization but don't try too hard to be 'dramatic' with DAD. If they do, and Tamahori doesn't catch it, I see bad reviews.

There's something else. In GE and TND Brosnan seemed to be a good balance of his predecessors and yet still be his own Bond. The one primary minus point was his occasional awkward delivery of the classic lines, which he seemed to be just too aware of. He wasn't speaking them naturally, but rather was saying "Bond, James Bond" with full awareness of how iconic the line is, in GE and TND anyway. In TWINE I feel he did this better and more comfortably. But at the same time, in TWINE he seems to switch back and forth between the previous Bonds (Lazenby excepted). In the opening sequence, he's Connery, or ate least very good Brosnan. When he makes a joke (and in his scenes with Christmas) he's Moore. When he's getting Zukovsky's attention by holding one of his employees at gunpoint, he's Dalton. The transitions were smoother in his previous two efforts (still, Brosnan has lots of great moments in TWINE). It's a great balancing act that Feirstein seemed to be better at than P & W.

Just my two cents (or more like two bucks, seeing how much I've written).

Dave

[Loomis]

I agree with rubixcub that TWINE was laughably overdramatic in places, with some dreadful dialogue, but, as rubixcub also points out, blame for soap opera-style hamminess can also be laid at the director's door.
I hope that DAD will not suffer from this key problem of TWINE, as well from another major flaw of Michael Apted's film: an overcomplicated plot, bloated with too many characters.
Anyhow, I'd like to see new writers brought to the series. Don't have any suggestions, though.
By the way, does anyone know what happened to Richard Maibaum? Is he still alive? His name is on virtually every Bond film from From Russia With Love to Licence to Kill, and that sort of continuity was pretty cool for a series fan like myself.

[Icephoenix]

I would love to see Michael France and Jeffery Caine to come back and go for another. They had so many good Ideas. GoldenEye was fantastic, had a great plot and orignial mind-blowing sequences. France,Caine hooked up with Pervis and Wade, would be the Ultimate team!
M&J with great sequences and an original story, P&W re-work the Story and give it a more realistic touch.
I would love to see thse people grouped up some day. As for who Does 21, i think P&W are writing the script, my guess is 20 and 21 are tied in. And Indyjones i love your enthusiasm, perhaps you could tell us your plot?

[Harmsway]

I don't like Bruce Feirstein any more than the rest of you, but let's give him some credit. Sure, the first draft of TND was laughable, but he had some good elements. The character of Sidney Winch had potential. Elliot Harmsway is a better name than Elliot Carver by all means. Some good lines were thrown in: "A word of advice, Mr. Bond: Don't screw with a man who buys ink by the ton. It's deadlier than uranium." (The uranium thing comes from the prescence of uranium in the storyline). The PTS was all his, pretty much, and some of it is better than what appears on film. Other parts die a terrible death (especially any scene with Paris in it. Dear Lord! Are those scenes bad!!). He may not be the best writer, and in some ways both helped and hurt GE, but TWINE he definitely helped (other than the Q exit scene. In my opinion, no exit scene was nessecary.).

I read the Dana Stevens draft, and there are some problems that were fixed by Feirstein. Some of the Renard scenes weren't that well-done, including one where Davidov and a hooker were together, and then some of the Elektra scenes needed touching up. Christmas Jones would've been laughable even if she was left as is (and Denise Richards destroys everything she touches). The Dana Stevens draft was longer than nessecary, longer than even the finished film (which drrrrrraaaaaaagggggggssssss after repeated watching). Bruce Feirstein is also responsible for the excellent TWINE pre-titles sequence as it appears. Dana Stevens had some problems (the Bilbao scene wasn't as exciting, and then Bond killed the cigar girl without questioning her). The silo fight is noticibly better in the Feirstein draft, and is the casino scene. All in all, Feirstein helped TWINE more than he hurt it. In my opinion, he may not have deserved credit so much, but without his work, TWINE would've been a poor effort because the highlights of the film aren't there otherwise. But if Purvis and Wade can pull off DAD w/o him or anybody else, I say, stick with them. TWINE's first draft was one of the better first drafts, closer to what appears on film than both GE's first draft and TND's first draft.

~Harmsway

P.S. General Koskov - Bruce Feirstein was not responsible for the name Christmas. It's Purvis and Wade's "masterpiece" name. :-P

[General Koskov]

Oh, someone said that BF invented Jones' character. Of course Harmsway would think that 'Harmsway' is a better name than Carver! But I, too, liked that 'ink by the barrelful' line. Didn't Mark Twain say something like that? Anyway Tomorrow Never Dies was a horrible film, and The World is not Enough did seem to have choppy action. If one good thing is to be said of Live and Let Die, it's that the action furthered the plot--like in IF's books. Ne'er a chase without reason.

[Blue Eyes]

Bruce Feirstein is always going to attract a lot of flack for his role in the Brosnan era Bond films. Personally, his lack of a role in Die Another Day seems to indicate that the producers feel the same way.

I'll give Bruce credit, he does have a lot of potential. The first draft of Tomorrow Never Dies is all over the place but there is a lot of potential in there. Some of the characters and lines really deserve a place in Bond.

I find that to be Bruce's strong point, his one liners. The 'crown jewels' line in Tomorrow Never Dies's draft would have gone over excellently. And I don't mind his 'never let them see you bleed' but I do agree with Zencat, it's not that related to Q. But do the audience notice? No, only we do. And you have to agree, we're the minority. But that's not to say he's write in the decsision

I seem to remember someone making comments about him cutting down Christmas' role and replacing it with action etc... Does anyone have anything to say on that? I'm talking proof but not in legal terms. Maybe 'specifics' is a better word because I really don't know anythign about it.

As for Bond 21? Well Die Another Day will shown whether P&W will return. But I think they should at least get a third person just to inject something fresh. I hear John Cox is great a this sort of thing

[zencat]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
I think they should at least get a third person just to inject something fresh. I hear John Cox is great a this sort of thing

I couldn't agree more.

[JimmyBond]

My first post here was a thread asking what did Fierstien ruin on TWINE (if that doesnt clue you in on how I feel I dont know what to say )

Seriously though, he's not that bad. Gotta credit him for turning the endless rewrites of TND into something that was at least watchable. I wont comment on TWINE, as I think the first draft was good, now I'm no expert here, but didnt Fierstien add the redicoulous Caviar helicopter sequence? I'm not even sure what his contributions on GE were, so I wont comment on that.

What was the main point of this thread? Oh yeah, I dont think Fierstien should return, as much money as the films he worked on made, I think the producers want a new approach, and thats why they got Purvis and Wade. For that reason, I Think Purvis and Wade should pen the next one (if DAD turns out good, that is).

[Harmsway]

Actually, it wasn't him who did all the rewrites of TND - he is only responsible for about the first draft. Roger Spottiswoode (the director of TND) actually decided to re-write the script on his own, up through filming! Bruce Feirstein's first draft is basically what he is responsible for and he recieved too much credit for that film. The first draft is god-awful, and the whole film was saved only by the talents of other writers, Pierce Brosnan's best performance yet, and a wonderful job by director Roger Spottiswoode.

Feirstein did not add the GE sequence, that actually appeared in Dana Stevens second draft (I don't know if it was in any of Purvis and Wade's drafts). He helped improve the sequences, as he did with all of the lackluster action scenes that had originally been written.

Personally, I would like to see Purvis and Wade become the Maibaum of the new Bond films. They've got more talent that Feirstein, who's pride and joy was the 1st TND draft (which would've made the worst Bond film since TMWTGG).

[Vodka Martino]

Hi, gang. I thought I'd post just to say hello and how interesting this particular thread is. I wasn't aware of who wrote what in each particular draft of the last three films, but this thread is turning out to be quite informative. Anybody out there know what criteria Eon Productions use when it comes to selecting writers for the Bond films? The reason I ask is this; like probably a lot of you out there, I'm writing a Bond script... I think I just heard you all groan.
Yep, I know it probably doesn't stand a chance in hell of ending up on Barbara's or Michael G's desk, but I simply have to write it. I've been fleshing out scenes and ideas for the last couple of years and I'm finally a WHOLE three pages into the pre-credit sequence. I know that Eon don't look at spec scripts and therefore it may never see the light of day (or the living daylight. Sorry, couldn't help myself), but I have to give it a shot. Better to have tried and failed than to blah, blah, blah.
Gotta say that I love this forum. And at the risk of starting an argument, I think Timothy Dalton was great as Bond. Keep up the good work, Pierce.

[Dalton]

Originally posted by Vodka Martino
Anybody out there know what criteria Eon Productions use when it comes to selecting writers for the Bond films?

Welcome to the forums Vodka Martino. I don't know too much of what EON want. But, I do know this. EON Productions will not take unsolicited scripts. If they want a writer they will go to that writer/writing team. That's what happened to Purvis & Wade.

[Vodka Martino]

That's what I suspected. Well, there goes my idea of sneaking into Eon Headquarters wearing a white dinner jacket with a script under my arm. Thanks.

[JimmyBond]

Gettting back on topic briefly. So, Fierstien is a weird topic it appears, his name is stamped on three Bond films, yet it appears he had very little to do with any of them (save for GE). Its a wonder he got all the credit he did if he contributed so little.