28 replies to this topic

[Palicot]

What allignments do you think Jinx and Frost will be?

One good one bad, both good or both bad.

I think that if one of them is the bad one, then it will be Jinx on the grounds that most people think that Frost will be the bad one, and if Jinx turns out to be the bad one, it will be more of a surprise.

Of course if they both turn out to be good, I don't hold up much hope of Frost surving.

[Blue Eyes]

It's a fine line to guess where their allegiance actually stands.

As far as we're told;

Jinx has a villainous side to her. Personally, I think she's a mercenary of sorts.

Miranda Frost works for MI6. So that (possibly) suggests that she's on Bond's side. Though there's some friction between the two characters.

[Xenobia]

I think Frost will be aligned with Becks and the UK team, while Jinx may go with the darkhorse American team.

Oh, you mean this isn't a World Cup discussion?

I think Frost will think that every thing she does is perfectly right. I also think all that Jinx will do, will seem perfectly correct to her.

The real questions are, which woman will Bond agree with, and for how long, and which woman will audience root for.

Let's remember something: a lot of fans were rooting for Elektra, even at the end of TWINE.

-- Xenobia

[iceberg]

I think DAD may follow one of two paths when it comes to dealing with Miranda Frost and Jinx:

1.) Since neither one of them seems to be an outright villain, it's not similar to GOLDENEYE, where you know who the good girl and bad girl was from the get-go. I think they may follow TND's lead: with Miranda Frost in the Paris Carver role, getting bumped off halfway through. Jinx is the Wai Lin role, first fighting against Bond then bceoming his ally.

OR:

2.) They may follow TWINE's formula. Miranda may be the good-girl who is really bad (Elektra) and Jinx may be the bad-girl who first works against Bond (Christmas) but is really the good one.

Or the may follow another path that none of us even suspect. I will say this, Rosamund Pike's Miranda Frost seems very enigmatic and interesting. The last time I was this interested in a Bond woman was in Elektra King, who in my opinion was the best Bond woman ever. Pity she ended up dead. Let's hope Miranda doesn't suffer a similar fate.

[Blue Eyes]

I tend to lean towards your second theory iceberg. The question is though, would Purvis and Wade be willing to walk down the same path so soon?

[iceberg]

The same thought occurred to me, Blue Eyes. I wouldn't like to think that the writers would play that particular card again so soon. Another interesting note is something I read on IMDB.com about Jinx and Madonna's cameo character sharing a raunchy kiss. Not sure how this is supposed to fit into the plot of DAD (if it is indeed true). You also have to wonder if all the emphasis in the press about Jinx being a villainess is some sort of misdirection and deliberate misinformation so that we'll be stunned when Lady Frost steps out of the wings as the true villainess.

[Xenobia]

Frankly...if I was Jinx...I wouldn't start out liking James Bond either. After all, he was agent out in the cold. Burned. Captured. God only knows if he is reliable, so why should I trust him? He has got to earn my respect....

Think about it...Christmas didn't trust Bond at first because she didn't know who he was. But once she realized that, she was on his side from then on.

With Jinx, she knows who he is...and that's why she may not trust him. But...all signs seem to point to her coming around too.

-- Xenobia

[Mourning Becomes Electra]

Originally posted by Xenobia
Frankly...if I was Jinx...I wouldn't start out liking James Bond either.  After all, he was agent out in the cold.  Burned.  Captured.  God only knows if he is reliable, so why should I trust him?  He has got to earn my respect....

Think about it...Christmas didn't trust Bond at first because she didn't know who he was.  But once she realized that, she was on his side from then on.

With Jinx, she knows who he is...and that's why she may not trust him.  But...all signs seem to point to her coming around too.

-- Xenobia

Well let's hope if Jinx distrusts him it isn't as disasterous as Christmas' distrust! Her distrust and interfernce ended in the death of all those men in the bunker & the successful theft of nuclear weapon. LOL

MBE

[PaulZ108]

I really have no idea. I think it'll most likely be Jinx that sides with Bond and lives to the end of the film, as she's the one who is supposed to look villainous and it'd be a typical twist to have her switch sides only to find Frost as a traitor.

Still, it could work the other way around as Frost comes off as sort of a bitch who can't get along with Bond, which would hint that she was the traitor but actually not. If that makes sense.

Whatever the case, I'm willing to bet that it's Jinx she fights in the plane. (Or if she's the traitor, then maybe Bond).

[iceberg]

I somewhat agree with the notion that with Miranda Frost's initial positioning as an aloof ice princess, it sort of makes sense that she will turn out to be quite the opposite and be on Bond's side. However, we already know that she warms up to Bond as early as right after the Ice Palace soiree (the already famous scene from the trailer where she disrobes in front of Bond).

I think that this "twist" is a set-up for another twist wherein we find out she truly is the traitor.

As much as I am more on Frost's side than Jinx's, I have to admit I have a strong feeling Miranda Frost will be the Elektra King of DAD.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Elektra was a surprisingly complex and well-drawn Bond girl.

[Palicot]

One question I have is, why does Jinx want to kill Bond in the first place, it can't be on Falco's orders now that we know he is not a villian.

[PaulZ108]

I don't think she quite trusts Bond. After all, Bond's all pissed at M after being burned and just spent a considerable amount of time in a Korean prison so she might think HE is the traitor.

[Blofeld's Cat]

We now know that Jinx works for Falco, so maybe he told her to get the job done anyway possible, even if it means bumping off an agent from a friendly agency. Remember that he is supposed to be uncompromising to begin with.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

To expand on what B.C said, I think that Jinx may turn out to be Falco's accomplice. He said in that interview that he sends Jinx out, and he said something about Falco being a rogue. So Jinx being Falco's accomplice could seem very likely to me. Thee's also the possibility that Jinx knows nothing of Falco's plan, if he is a rogue.

[Surrender]

I'm guessing the writers will keep well clear of simply repeating electra. I think Jinx will be the traitor, purely because she's american and 00agents are so trusted. I know that 006 was a traitor but thats just another reason why they won't have another 1 so soon. Also they seem to admit Jinx is dodgy in all the publicity. did they do that with Electra in TWINE?
It's always good to be proved wrong though!

[iceberg]

I think this is how DAD will play out in terms of Frost and Jinx: When Bond first meets Jinx, he won't know that she's an NSA agent. She might be presented as somewhat of a mercenary or rogue bounty hunter. Later on, he finds out that she is an NSA agent and they begin working together. And I agree with BC regarding Falco's alleged instructions to Jinx to get the job done any way possible, even if it means killing Bond.

The truth is I'd like Miranda Frost to be the one to survive to the end, but according to Rosamund Pike, her character's name used to be Gala Brand, which I understand to be the name of Blofeld's secretary in a past Bond novel. I don't know if that's a clue to Frost's true nature or not. I take it to be a sign that she's not who she appears to be.

I hope I'm proven wrong, though....

[Xenobia]

I think Jinx and Falco work together...and they both think that British overrate themselves and their "00" agents especially.

Enter Mr. Bond, fresh from his stay at the DMZ Holiday Inn. The Americans are not going to trust this guy, figuring that
A) Bond has been turned.
Bond wants revenge so bad, he will blow everything.
C) Bond is too old to be of any use.

Now, I suspect at the Ice Palace, something (or somethings will go wrong) and Jinx will see Monseiur Bond in a new light.

I think the folks at Eon are a bit too predicatable in this regard...if her name is Frost, she is the traitor. (And correct me if I am wrong, but I think Miranda might have some negative connotations in literature as wll, but I can't place one right now.)

-- Xenobia

[Evil Doctor Cheese]

I suspect the return of the simple good vs evil story where there aren't that many twists and turns for us but there are for Bond. Perhaps we know alot more than Bond rather than knowing as much as Bond (as in TWINE) setting up the most tense Bond in ages (no Bond don't trust her she's evil etc!) Just a thought to add a spanner to the works.

[Palicot]

One thing it would seem that Frost and Jinx will have scenes together, its not other that the 2 main Bond Girls have scenes together, let alone talk to each other.

[iceberg]

I agree that having the Bond girls interact with one another would be
a fresh spin. Regarding Miranda Frost being the traitor, it would be the second time (that I can immediately think of) wherein a 00 agent crossed over to the dark side. In GOLDENEYE, we had 006 (Sean Bean). I hope that the writers will come up with something a tad fresher than just yet another 00 agent going bad.

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by iceberg
I agree that having the Bond girls interact with one another would be
a fresh spin.  Regarding Miranda Frost being the traitor, it would be the second time (that I can immediately think of) wherein a 00 agent crossed over to the dark side.  In GOLDENEYE, we had 006 (Sean Bean).  I hope that the writers will come up with something a tad fresher than just yet another 00 agent going bad.

It is only speculation at this point that Frost is a Double-0.

[Xenobia]

I agree with Mr* -- you don't have to be a double-o to have a sit down with M. especially if she likes you. And it does appear as if M. is fond of Ms. Frost at first.

-- Xenobia

[iceberg]

Whether or not Miranda Frost is a 00, I think the possibility that M is fond of her does not bode well for Frost's alignment. In TWINE, M was quite fond of Elektra, as well. Even to the point of doing something out-of-character as rushing into the field despite sensible advise against it. And we all know now the enormity of Elektra's dark side. It seems M has a penchant lately for being disarmed by daughter figures who are not what they appear to be.

And if that is the case, if Miranda is indeed treacherous, this would be the second film in a row wherein M is "let down" by a younger woman she is fond of. To echo Blue Eyes' question in another post and applied to this one, "would Purvis and Wade (the writers) be willing to walk down that path again so soon?"

You have to wonder.....

[Xenobia]

Would P&W go down the same road again....no, I don't think they would. But let's take a moment to see how this could play out:

This is several years after Elektra betrayed M. M. figures lightning couldn't strike twice. Besides, there is something to Ms. Frost that reminds her of herself at that age....

And maybe perhaps, after Bond comes back, if Bond says there is a traitor, there might be one little piece in M.'s mind that is telling her it isn't Bond, and that it could be someone else...maybe Frost. So she sticks Frost on Bond, hoping that if Bond is right, Bond can "deal" with Frost, or if M. is right about Frost, then Miranda will earn her stripes (or zeroes) and deal with Bond.

You see, this is totally different from Elektra. In either case M. retains control, by setting her agents against each other, whereas with Elektra, M. was caught completely off guard.

You are very insightful Iceberg. Thanks for the Saturday night challenge.

-- Xenobia

[iceberg]

Thanks, Xenobia. In my humble opinion, though, I'm not any more insightful than the rest of you. But we'll see how right (or wrong) we all are on November 22.

Let's hope we're in store for some good surprises. Now, if they would just get a solid trailer released soon. I'm afraid the teaser just isn't cutting it anymore.

[Palicot]

I hope Frost is not the traitor.

Ignoring the Regulars.

It would be nice to see a British Agent who is not either a traitor or who dies.

Its been too long.

[iceberg]

I agree wholeheartedly, Palicot. Miranda Frost seems far too intriguing a character to squander or such a tired twist as being a traitor. One positive note: her counterpart in the novel Moonraker (Gala Brand, Frost's original name before the producers changed it), which is said to part of the inspiration for DAD, not only turns out to be good and survives, she also has the honor of being the first Bond girl (that I know of) to spurn Bond and walk away from him at the end (she's engaged to another, you see). For more information, please consult the thread regarding DAD being a remake of Moonraker (the book, and not the movie--a significant difference). Let's hope DAD follows the same tack. I'm sorry folks, if you somehow couldn't tell, I am firmly in Miranda Frost's camp. No offense to Jinx, who is intriguing in her own way. But Miranda seems far too elegant, too classy, and yes, too frostily interesting to be wasted as a villainess.

[Evil Doctor Cheese]

I quite like the idea that was banded about by someone (probably someone who was winding us up... as I recall it was Stringfellow) that Graves killed Frost by throwing her into a pool of ice saying "I always thought you're personality was rather frigid Miranda" which I think is cool. I think that she will get killed by Graves though but not because she's a traitor but because she isn't a traitor... because he finds out she is 007. Which leaves us whith Jinx being the traitor... or does it! I recall that this whole traitor idea came about at the start of the "solid rumours period" (after all the Whitney Huston and Kevin Spacey rubbish) when very little information waqs being given out. The idea was that England was betrayed by a traitor and no more information was given out. The traitor idea (correct me if I'm wrong) hasn't really been mentioned officially for a long while which leads me to thinking that the traitor is just good old Sir Gustav Graves. In the early days of being given info by Eon we didn't know about Graves and the word traitor was mentioned but now we know about Graves (who does betray his country in his own little way) and the word traitor is no longer being used officially. That's where I get this little idea from... that and the fact that I think Miranda and Jinx will start out not liking Bond then come to love him.

BTW... anybody else think that Miranda HAS to die. It's a certainty if she has been given Bond's number. And as much as we didn't like Stringfellow annoying us with his faked pics at the time... I quite like his idea of Miranda being frozen in a pit of ice.

[Xenobia]

No one ever *has* to die...but someone always does in Bond...it's the catalyst for him going off on his adventure.

That being said...I think it is safe to say that Bond's catalyst in Die Another Day (which, for the record STILL Needs Another Title), is his capture, torture, and imprisionment.

I have heard nothing about the producers talking to Hallie Berry or Rosamund Pike about coming back. In Berry's case, she would need the heads up...I don't know about Ms. Pike. However, the gentleman playing Falco *has* been told they would like to him to come back so....

I have a feeling Jinx or Frost will die, and the other will surivive but not be back in the movie. I have no idea which will be which. I do know however, that unlike her inspiration, Ms. Brand, Ms. Frost will not say no to Bond!

-- Xenobia