50 replies to this topic

[erniecureo]

Good arguments--and I'm aware I was creating a "straw man"--but I was doing it more to create a scenario where striking a woman would be justified than to justify Connery's actions (if they occurred as described). I guess what initially rubbed me the wrong way was the blanket assertion that it's not okay to hit a woman.

I would have the same discussion on a forum where someone said killing is always wrong. I'd argue that there were cases where it was okay. And I'd probably set up a straw man to do it!

I do agree you don't hit someone for simply saying things you don't like to hear, although I could probably argue that one as well...

But as for your three year-old, I guess you're right. Go ahead and pound on her if she gets out of line.

Just kidding. But if I have to, I would bring up that your daughter hasn't sufficiently matured to be fully responsible for her actions. We as a society have a long history of reducing or witholding punishment for this reason, so I think it would also apply here.

Okay, I'm sufficiently bored with the topic, and I gotta go write my latest extra installment. Enjoyed debating with you--wish we could do it in a pub instead of on a forum!

Ciao.

[Scottlee]

In defence of Sean....

1) It was 40 bleedin' years ago. Regardless of what he might say in the press, he has evidently not him a woman for over 40 years (we presume).

2) We don't have his side of the story over the incident.

3) For some reason, there's no explanation in the text as to why Sean did what he did, or even any guesswork from the lady in question as to why Sean did what he did. That's strange, unless the text in incomplete.

4) As much as we all like to think we would love playing James Bond and receiving the adoration that goes with it, none of us know what it's truly like. Sean never did like the adoration, and the time between GF and TB was probably the most stressful of his life.

[Turn]

In defence of Sean....

2) We don't have his side of the story over the incident.

Maybe this will inspire him to take up his memoirs again after abandoning the project last year.

Is it me or is Connery the only star who gets dogged by the Playboy quote, which most take the wrong way to begin with? We all know how the press uses things to sensationalize and distort for a more interesting story.

John Lennon's first wife recently wrote about his abuse of her and Lennon continues to be seen as a saintly figure, having airports named after him and such. James Brown is a known spouse abuser and still sells out concerts and had a huge story in Rolling Stone about him. Charlie Sheen was said to have abused Denise Richards, yet he's still starring on a successful sitcom and hasn't apparently suffered any popularity.

[Scottlee]

Yeah, there are many examples like that. Stan Collymore is a another good one, maybe even Geoffery Boycott.

[milomarch]

I must agree with Ernie Cureo on this one. Sean obviously believes that there are certain circumstances where a good smack is justified, I believe more in a disciplinary manner rather than as an abusive act. If I remember his interview with Barbara Walters back in the 80's (or 90's) he mentioned certain women's tendency to nag a person to the point of going crazy. I have never hit a woman myself, but I can understand his point of view and he seems to have no notion of backing down in our effete world of political correctness. In many ways, Mr. Connery is very much like Mr. Bond. Neither give a damn about the "proper" views of society at large, and if I am not mistaken, Ian Fleming was also known to smack a few women. lol.

[spynovelfan]

Interesting how far people will go to defend the guy who defined Bond, isn't it?

[Scottlee]

Interesting how far people will go to defend the guy who defined Bond, isn't it?

I think the thing that nags most people is that the lack of opinion (from the lady) as to why Sean did what he did, that and the lack of his side of the story. Not many people are going to want to condemn one of their favourite actors when the story is so incomplete.

[Skudor]

I'm a great Connery fan and frankly I believe the story. It's appalling and inexcusable.

[Roebuck]

Interesting how far people will go to defend the guy who defined Bond, isn't it?

I think the thing that nags most people is that the lack of opinion (from the lady) as to why Sean did what he did, that and the lack of his side of the story. Not many people are going to want to condemn one of their favourite actors when the story is so incomplete.

It was also rumoured that when officially questioned about the incident (as part of the vetting process for Connery's knighthood) Cilento did a major backpeddle. The only reason she's dredging this up again is because there's not a publisher in the world who'd be interested in her book if it wasn't for the Connery connection.

[erniecureo]

Okay, I'm back (having finished my "Extra" thread) because this comment caught my eye:

Interesting how far people will go to defend the guy who defined Bond, isn't it?

To be honest, I like Connery's Bond, but I've heard that he's a prick--and have at least one story from a friend of mine who met him that supports this. I don't know the guy, but from everything I've heard, he doesn't seem overly concerned with what other people think--and I think that's fine.

So I hope I'm clear when I say I'm not "defending" anything--rather, like milomarch, I'm complaining about the banality of the hype surrounding the charge and the stink of political correctness surrounding it.

"Hitting women is awful!" Geez, what a news flash. But you know what? It's no worse than hitting a man. That, I think, was the point of the whole comment. If we're going to insist that the sexes are equal, then in my opinion that means you're equal not only when it benefits you (job opportunity, pay, rights, privileges, etc.), but when it doesn't (paying alimony if you earn more than your spouse, picking up the check on a date, serving in the combat arm of the military).

I love women. I've never hit one. I have no plans to. I've never hit anyone for just mouthing off. In fact, I've never swung first in a fight. But if I'm in a pub, and a big woman (who's had a few too many) hauls off and belts me, I'd probably pop her back. If that makes me a misogynist in your eyes, well, I guess you're welcome to your opinion. But I think it means I'm a little more clear-eyed about the issue--in other words, a true believer in "equality."

And just so you know--I truly hope the situation never comes up. I'm 45, which is way too old for fisticuffs. But there are some people who just can't be reasoned with--male and female. I'm not going to suffer a split lip or a bloody nose without retaliating simply because the offender was a woman.

[spynovelfan]

Wouldn't disagree with any of that, EC - but it's not really about this issue, is it? She didn't hit him. I agree - we don't know exactly what happened. I agree - it's convenient for her that it's coming out with her book. And I don't like the 'no smoke without fire' argument either. But getting away from the issue of whether it's right to hit people/women, etc, there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest that this story, or something like it, may have happened. Connery has gone on record several times as saying that he would hit a woman if she were hysterical. To my knowledge, he's never denied her allegations either. But I suspend judgement - I wasn't there, none of us were. No court has ruled on it. I just find it interesting that people immediately brand her a liar and presume it can't have happened or take it into some completely irrelevant debate about whether or not you should hit a woman (or anyone) if they've hit you.

Just because he played a great Bond doesn't mean he didn't do this. Doesn't mean he did either. But some people seem awfully quick to defend Connery every time his attitude to hitting women comes up. And it comes up more than in relation to this one incident.

[erniecureo]

It's funny--this thread started out as a "Gee, if Sean beat his wife, that's terrible" kinda thing.

I think we're all agreed that, yes, IF he beat her, then it is terrible.

Trouble is, the old interview was trotted out as "proof" that he probably did, and that morphed into a "When is it okay (if ever) to hit a woman?"

No one's defending Sean hitting his wife IF he did.

You said:

But some people seem awfully quick to defend Connery every time his attitude to hitting women comes up. And it comes up more than in relation to this one incident.

My question would be, why does it come up so often? As someone else pointed out, it's not like he has a history. IF he beat Diane Cilento, that makes one...so why is it in the news? Why is he still having to deal with this?

Put yourself in his shoes. If you got drunk once forty years ago and said you thought it was okay to get hammered occasionally), would you want to be asked about your alcoholism for the next forty years?

So I guess I'm not defending Connery so much as I'm attacking those who perpetuate a story that may not be true (i.e., the press).

[Sunny_on_SM]

I think that Connery is a great actor, but what I hear about his real life persona has never been too positive. Most people just like an actor and couldn't care less about what he does in his personal life, as long as he is good on screen. I think there is a fine line between hitting someone and punching them till they are black and blue. I don't know a whole lot about Sean's first wife, but I can believe her story at least to some extent. There have been too many incidents when people have complained about Connery's off screen personality and anger issues. Not long ago there was a news story about his neighbours complaning about his lack of consideration and rudeness.

And yet again, not like any of us here have to live with the guy or be his friends. He is good at what he does in movies, the rest is between him, his women and God (or conscience, if you prefer).

[secret_007]

Whats the big deal if a guy hits a woman? Its just a different gender. Some guys can be stronger than woman and some woman can be stronger than men. No difference at all. The other night some girl hit me and i hit her back. I have the right to defend myself. Connery was wrong for hitting his ex wife because she didnt hit him at all.

[Hotwinds]

And she needs help. I went on Amazon and they dont even sell the thing and there are no reviews. The book is a bomb it looks like.






Diane Cilento gave this more indepth detail to the Daily Mail, to pump some book volume:

[Roebuck]

Some guys can be stronger than woman and some woman can be stronger than men. No difference at all. The other night some girl hit me and i hit her back. I have the right to defend myself. Connery was wrong for hitting his ex wife because she didnt hit him at all.

Actually, in earlier interviews Cilento intimated that she

[spynovelfan]

[quote name='Roebuck' post='595414' date='28 August 2006 - 10:23']
Actually, in earlier interviews Cilento intimated that she

[Roebuck]

The sad part here is that one of them has moved on to a more mature relationship, while the other is apparently still clinging to the regrets of her past.

That's one way of looking at it. Another could be that, *if her allegations are true*, one of them became a hugely rich and powerful film star whose reputation, despite repeated misogynistic remarks and the suspicion of being abusive, remains untouchable as a result; while the other still struggles with having been beaten by him and wants the world to acknowledge it.

I

[killkenny kid]

[quote name='Hotwinds' date='27 August 2006 - 20:52' post='595225']
And she needs help. I went on Amazon and they dont even sell the thing and there are no reviews. The book is a bomb it looks like.

Well, maybe Sean can tell Mel Gibson and Tom Cruise how it's done.

[james st.john smythe]

she must not have done the dishes or made his tea on time.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Interesting how far people will go to defend the guy who defined Bond, isn't it?

Interesting, if not somewhat disturbing.

There certainly isn't proof this occured, but the people trying to justify it is pretty alarming. No one ever said it was okay to attack a male either, but some people have to jump in and dilute the discussion in hope that the original issue will be forgotten. Hitting people is not the way to solve problems, end of story.

Edited by Mr Teddy Bear, 04 September 2006 - 11:40 AM.