403 replies to this topic

[Righty007]

I just saw one of the best action movies I've ever seen.

[Harmsway]

Chud ripped LFODH a new one the size of Texas!

Compared it to Moonraker as in they shoulda made a Casino Royale.

Well, I've always enjoyed MOONRAKER.

LIVE FREE was bound to get a heaping load of criticism from CHUD. They put everything through the ringer (except when it comes to FANTASTIC FOUR, which CHUD ringmaster Devin ranks as superior to BATMAN BEGINS ). Still, I like CHUD for some of the stuff they do, but they are somewhat like the snobbish counterpart to AICN.

Don't get me wrong, LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is no CASINO ROYALE (though it does feature some parkour sequences, interestingly). It's not particularly intelligent. But it's a blast, through and through. It certainly runs circles around other recent action film fare like M:I:III.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Yes, they are snarky...which is why I read them but they lacked the unbridled geek enthusiasm of AICN so one wonders if they ever really liked anything that wasn't a Casablanca or Citenzen Kane or classic 80s genre masterpiece.But they buried DH4.

so, let's do a pepsi challenge:

best 80's revival so far:

Rocky Balboa or Die Hard 4(I refuse to call it "live free or Die Hard" since living "free" means no smokes, f-bombs or R rated goodness). ?

I see Sly cleaning Bruce's and Harrison's clocks...

[Harmsway]

best 80's revival so far:

Rocky Balboa or Die Hard 4(I refuse to call it "live free or Die Hard" since living "free" means no smokes, f-bombs or R rated goodness). ?

There are no smokes or f-bombs in LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD. The violence is alright, though.

Between the two of them, my vote goes to LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD. I didn't really care for ROCKY BALBOA (but I didn't have much affinity for the character to begin with).

I see Sly cleaning Bruce's and Harrison's clocks...

Personally, I think INDY IV will turn out to be dynamite, so I wouldn't bet on that.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I give Sly a 3-2 advantage...that blowing up the dude in the driver's seat shot was just...wow. Sly aint playin the pussy PG-13 MCdonalds-ization game.

[Harmsway]

I give Sly a 3-2 advantage...that blowing up the dude in the driver's seat shot was just...wow. Sly aint playin the pussy PG-13 MCdonalds-ization game.

Yeah, but I thought the action simply looked gory, not good. And it's not like the rest of the footage was anything stellar, either. JOHN RAMBO will be harder than INDY IV, but will it be the better film? Probably not.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I do prefer Rambo III to Indy III so maybe it will be better.

[dinovelvet]

I just saw one of the best action movies I've ever seen.

Enough talk about Octopussy, this thread is supposed to be about Die Hard!

[sharpshooter]

This film sounds like it will be dynamite for sure with all the doubters on these boards turning into satisfied customers.

[Loomis]

Wow, this is all very encouraging, especially given Harmsway's very unexpected love for this film. Looks like the worthwhile DIE HARD 4 I've been waiting for for 12 years is actually out there after all.

I'd settle for LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD being as good as LETHAL WEAPON 4 (is it?), but it looks as though it's able to go the distance with ROCKY BALBOA (although forgive my scepticism on this point). Seems McClane is back with a vengeance. As it were.

BTW, what's with the Wednesday opening? Don't these things normally open on Fridays?

[Harmsway]

I'd settle for LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD being as good as LETHAL WEAPON 4 (is it?), but it looks as though it's able to go the distance with ROCKY BALBOA (although forgive my scepticism on this point). Seems McClane is back with a vengeance. As it were.

I'd say it's certainly on level with LETHAL WEAPON 4. It's not as good as ROCKY BALBOA, but I do like it more (since I didn't really care for ROCKY BALBOA as a film, and found LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD a lot more fun to watch).

LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is a film you have to watch but not think too hard about... It's not meant to be dissected, it's meant to be enjoyed. This is a film you take five of you best guy buddies to, so you can cheer and laugh and have a good time with a sometimes dumb but always entertaining Summer flick.

Oh, and those "first 8 minutes" aren't really the first 8 minutes.

[The Dove]

I'm personally a much bigger fan of Bruce Willis than I am of Sly Stallone...but I'd take Rocky or Rambo anyday over Mel Gibson's Lethal Weapon movies!!

[DamnCoffee]

I just saw one of the best action movies I've ever seen.

I'm planning to see this soon! You've just made it sooner is Willis ok then? would you say it was better than the original??

[Loomis]

Oh, and those "first 8 minutes" aren't really the first 8 minutes.

Pleased to hear it.

And even more pleased to hear that LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is the best of the DIE HARD sequels.

[Loomis]

I give Sly a 3-2 advantage...that blowing up the dude in the driver's seat shot was just...wow. Sly aint playin the pussy PG-13 MCdonalds-ization game.

Yeah, but I thought the action simply looked gory, not good. And it's not like the rest of the footage was anything stellar, either. JOHN RAMBO will be harder than INDY IV, but will it be the better film? Probably not.

Probably not, but it does look as though JOHN RAMBO will join ROCKY BALBOA and LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD in being Surprisingly Good™. I'm getting an "unthinking person's APOCALYPTO" vibe.

[Scottlee]

I give Sly a 3-2 advantage...that blowing up the dude in the driver's seat shot was just...wow. Sly aint playin the pussy PG-13 MCdonalds-ization game.

The tone of the Die Hard films have almost taken a similar path to that of which the Rocky series took. Just think, you've got the classic original considered by many to be the best, the well respected second film which followed a similar path as the original but maybe wasn't quite as good, and then you've got the overblown third and fourth installments where artistic integrity went out of the window as the popularity of the main character was milked for all it was worth.

To fully realise the scenario we just need the utter atrocious Die Hard 5.0 (which kills the series for a while), and then Bruce Willis' big comeback at age 60, where he shocks us all with a completely unexpected hit titled John McClane. The character could even pay a Rocky-esque trip to old haunts such as the Nakatomi Plaza and tearfully point out the exact seat where Ellis got wasted.

[The Dove]

I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of wise- quips we'll get from McClane this time!! Here are some of my favorites from the last three movies...

Die Hard:

" Attention whoever you are, this channel is reserved for emergency calls only! "
" No in' lady, do I sound like I'm ordering a pizza!!!"

Die Hard 2:

" That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me.. you know what that is? Its a porcelain gun made in Germany..doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines here and it costs more than you make in a month!!"
" You'd be surprised what I make in a month!! "
" If its more than $1.98, i'd be very surprised!! "

Die Hard With A Vengeance:

" I threw his little brother off the 32nd floor of Nakatomi Towers out in L.A. I guess he's a little pissed off about it!!"
" Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that I'm in this because some white cop threw some white 's brother off a roof?!! "

[dinovelvet]

Really? You must have went in with low expectations than, because I remember you were really against this film. I liked the idea of it and was just underwhelmed.

I thought it looked awful. Still do. Those trailers are really mediocre.

Well that's an interesting comment. I found the trailer for Superman Returns to be awful, and it made the film look horrible, so I didn't see it. Then I finally watch the film on cable last week, and I quite enjoyed it. Turns out that the trailer, amazingly, was a showcase for most of the worst parts of the film. Now I'm wondering if DH4 is the same.

[Harmsway]

[quote name='Loomis' post='751301' date='28 June 2007 - 11:31']Pleased to hear it.

And even more pleased to hear that LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is the best of the DIE HARD sequels.[/quote]
Just my opinion, of course.

I'm sure I'd be crucified for saying that among a lot of DIE HARD die-hards, and I wouldn't really care to back it up, either. I had more fun with LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD than I did with DIE HARD 2 or WITH A VENGEANCE, and the fun quotient is all I care about. People can prattle on about how the action is more ridiculous, how the characters aren't so well developed, how Timothy Olyphant is a lackluster baddie... but it's not going to change my mind any.

[quote name='Loomis' post='751304' date='28 June 2007 - 11:39']Probably not, but it does look as though JOHN RAMBO will join ROCKY BALBOA and LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD in being Surprisingly Good

[Tarl_Cabot]

I give Sly a 3-2 advantage...that blowing up the dude in the driver's seat shot was just...wow. Sly aint playin the pussy PG-13 MCdonalds-ization game.

The tone of the Die Hard films have almost taken a similar path to that of which the Rocky series took. Just think, you've got the classic original considered by many to be the best, the well respected second film which followed a similar path as the original but maybe wasn't quite as good, and then you've got the overblown third and fourth installments where artistic integrity went out of the window as the popularity of the main character was milked for all it was worth.

To fully realise the scenario we just need the utter atrocious Die Hard 5.0 (which kills the series for a while), and then Bruce Willis' big comeback at age 60, where he shocks us all with a completely unexpected hit titled John McClane. The character could even pay a Rocky-esque trip to old haunts such as the Nakatomi Plaza and tearfully point out the exact seat where Ellis got wasted.

That's hilarious. I think your Rocky analogy is perfect. I think Die Hard is one of the top 10 movies of the 80s but as I said before, the series, culumatively is mediocre-the very thought of a extremely low probability crisis happening to the same guy 2,3,4 times kinda makes it hard to buy just like Rocky fighting(and beating) a guy who would knock Clubber Lang into the 5th row had they met in the ring.

But, if I were involved in the Die Hard machine I'd put Mclane on a retirement cruise ship(so what if Speed 2 did that) off the coast of Cartegena...and let the Columbian rebels board the ship and...we have a perfect Mclane outing...Yippee kiyay pendejo!*

*I have no attachment to that line whatsoever.

[Loomis]

Pleased to hear it.

And even more pleased to hear that LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is the best of the DIE HARD sequels.

Just my opinion, of course.

I'm sure I'd be crucified for saying that among a lot of DIE HARD die-hards, and I wouldn't really care to back it up, either. I had more fun with LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD than I did with DIE HARD 2 or WITH A VENGEANCE, and the fun quotient is all I care about.

As a diehard, I have a lot of time for DIE HARD 2, since it's closer to the original than WITH A VENGEANCE, which I find a curiously dour and unexciting film (and with unimpressive action, apart from the opening department store bomb, which in itself isn't really anything amazing but is certainly shocking in context). DIE HARD 2 is brutal, set almost entirely at night, and features Holly and Al Powell - it's a sequel cut from the same cloth as the first film. Despite the return of McTiernan, WITH A VENGEANCE strays too far from the look and feel of 1 and 2 (while Irons is Alan Rickman Lite) - this also seems true of LIVE FREE...., but then LIVE FREE.... does at least appear to have a bit of zest.

[Harmsway]

As a diehard, I have a lot of time for DIE HARD 2, since it's closer to the original than WITH A VENGEANCE, which I find a curiously dour and unexciting film (and with unimpressive action, apart from the opening department store bomb, which in itself isn't really anything amazing but is certainly shocking in context). DIE HARD 2 is brutal, set almost entirely at night, and features Holly and Al Powell - it's a sequel cut from the same cloth as the first film. Despite the return of McTiernan, WITH A VENGEANCE strays too far from the look and feel of 1 and 2 (while Irons is Alan Rickman Lite) - this also seems true of LIVE FREE...., but then LIVE FREE.... does at least appear to have a bit of zest.

I agree that DIE HARD 2 is the closest successor to the original. It feels like a DIE HARD film, and for that, I like it. It also has its fair share of nice moments (the bit where the plane crashes is a nice one). But I also think the writing's not very great (McClane doesn't really get any good zingers), the supporting list of characters is lacking, and the action isn't exactly stellar. It's enjoyable enough as an action film, but when lined up against the first, does pale in comparison a good bit. But we certainly agree on WITH A VENGEANCE.

LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD does manage to feel like a DIE HARD vehicle to me, moreso than WITH A VENGEANCE does, at least. Can't entirely explain it - it's certainly big (not so much "DIE HARD in a building/airport" as it is "DIE HARD in a nation") and it's nowhere near as gritty and "real" as prior installments, but something about it feels right to me. It's a bit like the transfer from THUNDERBALL to YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE. It's bigger and somewhat campier than its previous installments, while still retaining some of the basic essence.

It's very easy to tear LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD apart, and I don't really need to do it (plenty of more critical reviewers have). But at the end of the day, I enjoyed it, and that's what counts.

[Loomis]

To be sure, nothing beats the original DIE HARD, but I'll take issue with your observation that "the supporting list of characters is lacking" in DIE HARD 2. I find it has an excellent cast, and some of the characters are good fun - Dennis Franz's cop, Fred Dalton Thompson's air traffic control chief, John Amos and William Sadler as the military bad guys, and Franco Nero as the deposed dictator, for instance. Granted, they're not Hans, Karl, Ellis and all the wonderful, iconic roles from the first one, but, still, like I say, nothing beats the original DIE HARD.

It does amuse me, though, that so many AICN Talkbackers in recent weeks have been ripping on LIVE FREE.... for its ridiculousness and holding up DIE HARD 2 as an example of a no-nonsense and supposedly believable action thriller. In the pre-internet days of 1990, I collected press reviews of DIE HARD 2, and almost without exception they tore into the film for the utter ludicrousness of its plot and its many crimes against logic and credibility; however, most reviews conceded that the flick was also fun.

BTW, which DIE HARDs are referenced in LIVE FREE....? I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that just the events of the first one are mentioned. Or is McClane referred to as "the guy who was involved in that Nakatomi Plaza takeover in the '80s, the Dulles Airport hijacking a couple of years later, and also the attempt in the mid-90s by the brother of the Nakatomi terrorist leader to seize control of New York City, rather like this computer genius is currently trying to commandeer the whole country"? Thought not.

Also, is there anything in LIVE FREE.... that is any way surprising or risk-taking?

[Harmsway]

To be sure, nothing beats the original DIE HARD, but I'll take issue with your observation that "the supporting list of characters is lacking" in DIE HARD 2. I find it has an excellent cast, and some of the characters are good fun - Dennis Franz's cop, Fred Dalton Thompson's air traffic control chief, John Amos and William Sadler as the military bad guys, and Franco Nero as the deposed dictator, for instance.

The concepts are fine. They're just not fleshed out, and there's not a whole lot of McClane/villain rappor... something sorely missed (and there's plenty of that in LIVE FREE).

I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that just the events of the first one are mentioned.

Y'know, I don't think they were.

Also, is there anything in LIVE FREE.... that is any way surprising or risk-taking?

I was surprised by the brutality of violence in the male-on-female fight. Maybe I haven't seen enough movies, but McClane pounding a girl in the face as she lies on the floor is pretty remarkable.

[Safari Suit]

To fully realise the scenario we just need the utter atrocious Die Hard 5.0 (which kills the series for a while), and then Bruce Willis' big comeback at age 60, where he shocks us all with a completely unexpected hit titled John McClane. The character could even pay a Rocky-esque trip to old haunts such as the Nakatomi Plaza and tearfully point out the exact seat where Ellis got wasted.

He has a rather limited time scale in which to accomplish this!

LFODH has msde over $9mil on opening day:
http://www.boxoffice...om/daily/chart/

That's pretty good for a mid-week opening of a new entry from a long dormant franchise isn't it?

Edited by Safari Suit, 29 June 2007 - 08:30 AM.

[Professor Dent]

I saw it last night & loved it. It really is a movie that you don't need to think hard about & can just sit back & enjoy it. I was a little concerned with the PG-13 rating going into it but, looking back, it wasn't a problem for me at all. Everyone in the theater I saw it at seemed to enjoy it. There were laughs & cheers throughout the movie.

As far as sequels go, this one gets back to the formula that broke with Vengeance. I need to see it a few more times but this might be the best sequel of the bunch. There were no direct references to the Nakatomi plaza but there is a short rundown of McClane's past in one scene that focuses mostly on family. There was one funny reference to the first movie that cracked me up (I'll spoiler it for those who want to find it on their own).

Spoiler

One of the FBI agents is named Agent Johnson. McClane gives him a a great look as soon as he hears the name.

[Loomis]

A reference that doesn't really make sense, given that McClane didn't meet or speak to either of the Johnsons in the first film (or at least I don't think he did - memory may be playing false here).

[Bryce (003)]

I saw it opening night.

Folks, this one rocked the house IMO. Best since the first.

The second/action unit sat down and said "OK, whatever they've done in the last dozen Bond films, we've got to top it."

So they did.

The whole techno-terrorism angle works and does leave you with a little bit of "Big Brother/1984" phobia when you think about it.

Best McClane line during his first contact with the baddie: "Mai?....Last time I saw her she was at the bottom of an elevator shaft with an SUV shoved up her {censored}."

and to his daughter, Lucy is every bit "Daddy's little girl".

LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD: on the Bryce-o-meter

[killkenny kid]

I saw it opening night.

Folks, this one rocked the house IMO. Best since the first.

The second/action unit sat down and said "OK, whatever they've done in the last dozen Bond films, we've got to top it."

So they did.

The whole techno-terrorism angle works and does leave you with a little bit of "Big Brother/1984" phobia when you think about it.

Best McClane line during his first contact with the baddie: "Mai?....Last time I saw her she was at the bottom of an elevator shaft with an SUV shoved up her {censored}."

and to his daughter, Lucy is every bit "Daddy's little girl".

LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD: on the Bryce-o-meter

Indeed.

[Harmsway]

Well, I ended up seeing this one again today, and I couldn't have had a more different experience from my viewing on Wednesday. I don't know quite what it was... I wasn't really in the mood to see it, the audience was entirely different, and I didn't have my action-loving guy buds. So maybe this is all an experiment in film-viewing contexts.

But I'm going to have to take back what I said earlier. Scrap all that stuff about LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD being the best sequel... it ain't. DIE HARD 2 is, and by a solid margin. DIE HARD 2 is still the one that best carries over the essence of the franchise, even when it's far from a perfect film.

LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD just doesn't feel like DIE HARD. It has a few nice moments, but other than that, it just doesn't come together and might as well be called "generic action film." The film drops the ball on the characters (even John McClane feels like a caricature of his normal self). The villain's plot is insanely and obviously ludicrous - his tech abilities need to be scaled back to make it feel plausible. And while the action is surprisingly brutal, it lacks that "real world" feel that makes DIE HARD action what it is.

LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD is, essentially, the TERMINATOR 3 of the DIE HARD franchise.