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No Dalton or Brosnan in TLD...


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#1 Andrew

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 12:28 AM

Loomis' thread in the Brosnan forums inspired me to post this one.

Let's say for one reason or another Timothy Dalton was unavailable to film The Living Daylights in 1987(perhaps Brenda Starr is delayed?)and Brosnan is still caught up in the "Remington Steele" mess, who would/should have been chosen to play James Bond in this scenario?

Would Cubby have been convinced to go along with Sam Neill? Would Roger come back for another? Would Lambert Wilson's French accent be over looked and have him chosen?

OO7forever has a few tidbits of information on this subject...http://www.007foreve...actors/tld.html

What are your thoughts?

Edited by Andrew, 18 May 2006 - 12:30 AM.


#2 Loomis

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 12:32 AM

Well, this is all depending on who you believe, but I gather Broccoli was a strong supporter of Wilson (heaven knows why, though - he was just about the least appropriate "genuine" Bond candidate ever, IMO). Also that Mel Gibson was very much sought after by some key players in the production (but not by Broccoli).

If Broccoli could have been convinced.... my gut feeling is that they would have hired Sam Neill. And that he'd have bombed worse than Dalton, while doing similarly good acting work. If Broccoli could have been convinced.... was that ever possible? I'm sure it was.

#3 Publius

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 12:47 AM

Tough call, but at the end of the day I think Sam Neill would have made a fine pick. Not sure what direction he would have taken the role, and that's what probably what intrigues me enough to choose him.

No clue where Cubby was leaning on this one. Highly doubt Rog would come back for one more, even if TLD could have been tweaked for him (or kept as original, I guess), presumably without Maryam d'Abo or the other ladies. Otherwise, ewww.

Also doubt it would have worked that well for him, or that it would have done any better. I'm not crazy about a visibly aged Bond in his 60s wooing anything, or doing stunts, or even holding a gun...you get the idea. Not convicing or enjoyable at all.

#4 Harmsway

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 01:11 AM

Tough call, but at the end of the day I think Sam Neill would have made a fine pick. Not sure what direction he would have taken the role, and that's what probably what intrigues me enough to choose him.

Yeah... Neill would have been quite interesting indeed.

#5 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:01 AM

Sam Neil would have been a good Bond hire as an alternative to Dalton and the then too young and too pretty Brosnan. :tup:

#6 tdalton

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:29 AM

I think that it would have been Sam Neill. Neill, along with Sean Bean, will go down as the two biggest "should have been" Bonds. Both of these actors should have gotten at least one go as Bond. Not saying that I would have advocated against Dalton in the role, but Neill really should have gotten at least one somewhere down the line. Looking back at it, the perfect way to have gone about it would have been to bring Dalton in for Octopussy and have him finish with LTK and then have Neill take over and make a few in between LTK and GE, when Bean should have taken over. In a perfect world, for me, that's how it should have happened.

#7 Harmsway

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:42 AM

In *my* perfect world, I would have just dropped Dalton and Brosnan altogether, and it would have gone:

1987-1993 Sam Neill
1995-2002 Sean Bean
2006-2012 Daniel Craig

#8 red_grant

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 04:20 AM

i am a huge fan of what dalton did with bond in TLD. but for me i guess it could have functioned as a great farewell for moore. we could have seen him in a more realistic set-up. also they could have very subtly introduces elements of moore ageging, without going overboard like sean did in never say never again. i think moore can play tough very well, for those who dont think he can, u have to watch the episodes of the saint. there are several scenes where roger displays a harder edge i.e. he displays a temper, the fight scenes are more viseral than his bond and even his treatment of women were much harder (no pun intended !!!) . i guess he wud have made a much better bond if he had retained those qualities for bond. but for some reasons all involved thought that bond had to become softer and gentler !

#9 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:52 AM

At 60 years of age, Roger Moore was too old to play James Bond in The Living Daylights. Shoot, he was probably too old to play A View To A Kill at 58.

I'm a Pierce Brosnan fan, but I'm glad he didn't get the role back in 1987. At the time, he seemed perfect for the role but looking back he was way too young looking. The eight years between TLD and GoldenEye aged him perfectly.

Anyway, I believe that if Brosnan and Timothy Dalton were unavailable, EON would have went with the Australian/Kiwi Sam Neill. Everybody but Cubby Broccoli seemed to be sold on Neill. However, I think Broccoli was holding out for Dalton, his #1 choice, to become available. When he finally did, he got the part. But if Dalton was unable to take the role, I think Broccoli would have given his stamp of approval on Neill.

And I think Neill wouldn't have been much different from Dalton in his portrayal of 007 and probably would have fared about the same as far as fan appreciation and film success. Still, a part of me wishes Neill had gotten the role instead of Dalton even though I do like the Welshman's performance as Bond.

Tdalton mentioned that Neill and Sean Bean are the two biggest "should have been Bonds." I agree with Neill, but my second should-have-been-Bond is Hugh Jackman in 2006. It's too late for Neill, but there is still a slim chance for Jackman to replace Daniel Craig whenever the latter steps away from the role.

#10 Tinfinger

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:55 AM

Ted Danson. As Sam Malone, he could drink and womanize with the best of them. He also was brave to play love scenes with Kirstie Alley AND Shelley Long. Has my vote.

#11 Loomis

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 10:14 AM

In *my* perfect world, I would have just dropped Dalton and Brosnan altogether, and it would have gone:

1987-1993 Sam Neill
1995-2002 Sean Bean
2006-2012 Daniel Craig


I gather that Bean auditioned to play Bond in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS as well as GOLDENEYE. Seems a bit hard to believe (although by no means entirely out of the question), but it's there on his IMDb pages.

My own perfect Bond world would be as it actually was, only with Dalton doing GOLDENEYE and Brosnan coming in for TOMORROW NEVER DIES. Oh, yes, and they'd have made a Jinx or Wai Lin film too.

#12 doublenoughtspy

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 02:39 PM

In *my* perfect world, I would have just dropped Dalton and Brosnan altogether, and it would have gone:

1987-1993 Sam Neill
1995-2002 Sean Bean
2006-2012 Daniel Craig



Do you have a problem with Bond having black hair?

#13 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 03:18 PM

In *my* perfect world, I would have just dropped Dalton and Brosnan altogether, and it would have gone:

1987-1993 Sam Neill
1995-2002 Sean Bean
2006-2012 Daniel Craig


Here's mine :tup: :

1981-1985 Sam Neil

1987-1993 Tim Dalton

1995-2001 Pierce Brosnan

2003-2012 Daniel Craig

#14 Harmsway

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 04:27 PM


In *my* perfect world, I would have just dropped Dalton and Brosnan altogether, and it would have gone:

1987-1993 Sam Neill
1995-2002 Sean Bean
2006-2012 Daniel Craig

I gather that Bean auditioned to play Bond in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS as well as GOLDENEYE. Seems a bit hard to believe (although by no means entirely out of the question), but it's there on his IMDb pages.

My own perfect Bond world would be as it actually was, only with Dalton doing GOLDENEYE and Brosnan coming in for TOMORROW NEVER DIES. Oh, yes, and they'd have made a Jinx or Wai Lin film too.

You and Tarl were kinder to Brozzy than I was... :tup:

#15 Publius

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 06:37 PM

In *my* perfect world, I would have just dropped Dalton and Brosnan altogether, and it would have gone:

1987-1993 Sam Neill
1995-2002 Sean Bean
2006-2012 Daniel Craig

Interesting, but I'd have gone with:

1981-1997 Timothy Dalton :tup:

But seriously, a little more realistic would be:

1969-1979 George Lazenby
1981-1989 Timothy Dalton
1995-2005 Sean Bean
2007-???? Daniel Craig

(That's right, I went there...)

Sam Neill could star as The Saint in a new batch of movies, as Roger Moore originally considered with Pierce Brosnan in mind. You know you'd watch 'em.

#16 Harmsway

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 06:41 PM

Yeah... I'm just not a Dalton fan. I respect his portrayal and acting talents immensely, but he just never strikes me as, well, "cool." And even Fleming's Bond was certainly that.

#17 Publius

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:00 PM

Yeah... I'm just not a Dalton fan. I respect his portrayal and acting talents immensely, but he just never strikes me as, well, "cool." And even Fleming's Bond was certainly that.

To each his own, but having just read Casino Royale for the first time the other day, I can definitely see where Dalton was coming from. Unless Bond later undergoes a more radical transformation than I can imagine, Fleming's Bond just doesn't strike me as "cool" at all.

While he's no Connery (who himself was only modestly "cool" in my book, for reasons I have expounded upon elsewhere), Dalton still manages his own coolness in a lot of dialogue scenes, many an action one, and generally anytime he's pissed off or focused. He falters only when it comes to the natural humor, itself an element of "cool," and his relationship with the ladies, which was humble, whether he was being romantic (TLD) or just getting it on for fun (LTK).

To tie that into the thread (barely), it's the same kind of "cool" I could have seen a Neill-Bond have. Certainly not Brosnan, who did his best and was "coolest" when it came to the humor, but little else. Lazenby was Connery-lite in that department, until it came down to the fight scenes. Moore...well, you gotta love him, but he just had it here and there, if he was lucky. And Craig? Well, I have high expectations of him. Hoping for the "perfect storm" of elements from Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton.

#18 Harmsway

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:37 PM

Unless Bond later undergoes a more radical transformation than I can imagine, Fleming's Bond just doesn't strike me as "cool" at all.

Fleming's Bond has always struck me as an incredibly cool, film noir-esque character. He's always been cool in my eyes - and I've never seen him as anything else. It's that Cary Grant or possibly Humphrey Bogart sort of cool. It's just an aura of being a man's man who's tough and elegant at the same time, who's confident and collected.

I think that's partially what it is - Dalton's Bond always felt very tense to me. There wasn't the ease that I expect Bond to carry with him in his persona.

While he's no Connery (who himself was only modestly "cool" in my book, for reasons I have expounded upon elsewhere), Dalton still manages his own coolness in a lot of dialogue scenes, many an action one, and generally anytime he's pissed off or focused. He falters only when it comes to the natural humor, itself an element of "cool," and his relationship with the ladies, which was humble, whether he was being romantic (TLD) or just getting it on for fun (LTK).

Which is a pretty big fumble. He does okay for himself, and he's hardly painful to watch or anything, but he doesn't have that innate collectedness that I think Bond should have and his rather poor dealings with the ladies do a lot to damage him.

Furthermore, he just doesn't fit that noir-styled, pulp hero vibe I get from Fleming.

To tie that into the thread (barely), it's the same kind of "cool" I could have seen a Neill-Bond have.

Honestly, I think Neill's Bond would have probably been a little more... enjoyable and humorous than Dalton's ever was.

Moore...well, you gotta love him, but he just had it here and there, if he was lucky.

Moore had the "I am a superhero" kind of coolness. He was never thrown off - he was always there, on the top of his game, and for that he has to be appreciated. His Bond was very much clearly more a cartoon than the others, but it worked and came with its own brand of cool.

#19 Andrew

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:51 PM

Posted Image

He definatly could've done it. More here...
http://www.ibiblio.o...na/reilly-e.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.o...na/reillys1.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.o...w/145apple9.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.o...w/235money1.jpg

#20 Harmsway

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:09 PM

Here's a picture from his THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS screentest:

Posted Image

#21 Daddy Bond

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:27 PM

Sean Bean. He was a great 006 (except he was a turncoat). Oh well.

#22 Turn

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 12:09 AM

Did Sean Bean ever do a screen test? If so I'd like to see it.

#23 The Richmond Spy

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 01:53 AM

That Sam Neill screentest shot looks great...makes you wonder "what if"...

Oh well, he was great in Jurassic Park!

#24 Publius

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 08:20 PM

I think that's partially what it is - Dalton's Bond always felt very tense to me. There wasn't the ease that I expect Bond to carry with him in his persona.

He does okay for himself, and he's hardly painful to watch or anything, but he doesn't have that innate collectedness that I think Bond should have and his rather poor dealings with the ladies do a lot to damage him.

Furthermore, he just doesn't fit that noir-styled, pulp hero vibe I get from Fleming.

I suppose my measure of "cool" simply differs substantially from yours. To me, it means being in control and confident in your abilities, possessing a certain amount of mystery, and exhibiting a sense of danger, in that you could believably snap at any moment. Dalton had that, despite being the "human" Bond to his predecessors' "superhero" Bond, and a grounded and realistic "cool" is all the better. His "tension" arose from his deeply personal adventures, compared to the detached ones of Connery's tenure.

Honestly, I think Neill's Bond would have probably been a little more... enjoyable and humorous than Dalton's ever was.

Humorous, definitely. I don't think he would have been the same as Dalton (far from it), just more similar to him than anyone short of Connery. Not easily definable in terms of other Bonds, and that's always a positive.

Here's a picture from his THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS screentest:

Neill looks good there and convincing enough. Seems like he (and Bean) secretly wanted it to test two times in eight years.

#25 Harmsway

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 09:13 PM


I think that's partially what it is - Dalton's Bond always felt very tense to me. There wasn't the ease that I expect Bond to carry with him in his persona.

He does okay for himself, and he's hardly painful to watch or anything, but he doesn't have that innate collectedness that I think Bond should have and his rather poor dealings with the ladies do a lot to damage him.

Furthermore, he just doesn't fit that noir-styled, pulp hero vibe I get from Fleming.

I suppose my measure of "cool" simply differs substantially from yours. To me, it means being in control and confident in your abilities, possessing a certain amount of mystery, and exhibiting a sense of danger, in that you could believably snap at any moment. Dalton had that, despite being the "human" Bond to his predecessors' "superhero" Bond, and a grounded and realistic "cool" is all the better. His "tension" arose from his deeply personal adventures, compared to the detached ones of Connery's tenure.

"Cool" has always referred to a calm self-confidence. That's just what cool means when used in a descriptive sense. Here are the synonyms give for it: cool, composed, collected, unruffled, nonchalant, imperturbable, detached. That's just what cool refers to. Dalton didn't exercise that for me. He was just a little too tense and intense all the time. He should have relaxed every now and again. He also missed the roughness around the edges I like Bond to have (something Moore and Brosnan also missed, though) - there wasn't any of that "thug in a suit" aspect that I think is essential to the Bond persona. Furthermore, he flounders on sex appeal, and so that's just another strike against him.

He even misses the boat on the extremely important hedonist aspect of Bond, which I just don't get with him. I just don't see it. Along with that goes the "man's man" aspect of Bond, which is something even Fleming's Bond had in spades. Fleming's Bond was a tough, mysognist cookie who was in many senses hypermasculine. Dalton just wasn't all that masculine or tough feeling. Intimidating and deadly in action, yes, but if he threatened me in person, I'd laugh in his face.

I respect Dalton, but he's just never going to be my ideal Bond (or even Fleming's Bond - I struggle picturing him doing *many* of the things Fleming's Bond does, like forcibly kissing Patricia Fearing at Shrublands, for instance). He ranks above Brosnan, but he's below the others. Yes, I even prefer Lazenby. To each his own, though, and Bond has certainly offered enough variations on the same riff to please everyone.

At least we agree on Craig!

#26 Publius

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 09:31 PM

Fair enough, Harmsway. I actually agree with a lot of your points (the thug aspect most notably), but again, it comes down to how heavily I weigh the factors I previously mentioned. Although I'm aware of the standard dictionary definition, the usage of "cool" that I grew up with is a lot looser, easily fitting my perception of Dalton. What can I say, I was an 80s child...which might explain things in and of itself, come to think of it. :tup:

At least we agree on Craig!

Definitely. Nice to see fans of each of the other Bonds can see something worth rooting for in Craig.

#27 JimmyBond

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 02:55 AM

I've long stopped trying to force Bond into a role and just enjoyed each actors take on the character. Dalton's Bond wasnt a ladies man, nor was he "at ease." But you know what? That didnt bother me at all, he was still Bond, just not the same Bond that the other actors played. I also feel the same way about Brosnan, I enjoy the fact that his films are focused on action because I'm not trying to fit the character (or the films) into one certain style.

It's how we get a comedy Bond (Moore), a serious Bond (Dalton), and an all around Bond (Brosnan), plus we have Connery, and Connery-Lite (Lazenby). And with Craig we'll get the closest we've ever been to Fleming's Bond. This is why I love the Bond series, variety. :tup: