55 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

TWINE is Brosnan's most underrated Bond film. Like someone else already said, even though it fails it certain areas, the fact that they were trying to do something different and make Bond a bit more serious was a welcome change from the tried and true formula movies like TND.

[Harmsway]

TWINE.

I remain convinced that this frequent whipping post will someday be more generally well-regarded.

Not by me.

Gee, what a surprise.

But I will come calling in 20 years.

I have no doubt that in 20 years, my opinion, though it may have fluctuated some, won't have fluctuated by much.

[ChickenStu]

I think "TWINE" is a lot better than a lot of people seem to give it credit for.

[Turn]

TWINE is Brosnan's most underrated Bond film. Like someone else already said, even though it fails it certain areas, the fact that they were trying to do something different and make Bond a bit more serious was a welcome change from the tried and true formula movies like TND.

But in the big picture, which worked better at its aim? TWINE tried to make Bond into a sap by letting a woman get the better of him. At least TND succeeded in what it was trying to do.

[tdalton]

TWINE is Brosnan's most underrated Bond film. Like someone else already said, even though it fails it certain areas, the fact that they were trying to do something different and make Bond a bit more serious was a welcome change from the tried and true formula movies like TND.

But in the big picture, which worked better at its aim? TWINE tried to make Bond into a sap by letting a woman get the better of him. At least TND succeeded in what it was trying to do.

I actually think that TWINE did what it was trying to do better than TND did. The only thing that TND had going for it, IMO, was its plot, but they messed it up at every turn. Neither of them are perfect films by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that TWINE was just an overall better film than TND.

[Turn]

TWINE is Brosnan's most underrated Bond film. Like someone else already said, even though it fails it certain areas, the fact that they were trying to do something different and make Bond a bit more serious was a welcome change from the tried and true formula movies like TND.

But in the big picture, which worked better at its aim? TWINE tried to make Bond into a sap by letting a woman get the better of him. At least TND succeeded in what it was trying to do.

I actually think that TWINE did what it was trying to do better than TND did. The only thing that TND had going for it, IMO, was its plot, but they messed it up at every turn. Neither of them are perfect films by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that TWINE was just an overall better film than TND.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

My thing is Bond is best known as an action hero spy. The action scenes put Bond in his element, making daring escapes and going about the mission. TWINE sandwiches the action between Bond brooding and being duped. Even DAD played those elements a lot better.

I disagree that TWINE will be reevaluated in 20 years as a better film, especially if Casino Royale succeeds in showing a Bond who balances the emotional aspects of becoming the world's best agent with the usual action. It may make TWINE that much more articifical.

[JimmyBond]

I actually think that TWINE did what it was trying to do better than TND did.

I'll disagree here too. TWINE tried to be a serious down to Earth FRWL type Bond film, and at the same time tried to be a OTT action Bond film, the marraige of the two styles did not work. As someone else said, DAD was a better combination of these two elements, and thus a better film.

For what it's worth, I feel TND is the only Brosnan Bond that really accomplishes what it set out to do. It set out to be an action film, and that's exactly what it is.

[cvheady007]

Goldeneye was the best Brosnan film, but I voted for TND as the most underrated. The opening sequence was classic 007 and the film was fun to watch. I enjoy Brosnan as Bond, though Connery will always be king, and though he should have gotten his smoking scene with the vodka shots he did prior to Paris Carver's appearance at the hotel, he did a fine job in this film.

I actually think that TWINE did what it was trying to do better than TND did.

I'll disagree here too. TWINE tried to be a serious down to Earth FRWL type Bond film, and at the same time tried to be a OTT action Bond film, the marraige of the two styles did not work. As someone else said, DAD was a better combination of these two elements, and thus a better film.

For what it's worth, I feel TND is the only Brosnan Bond that really accomplishes what it set out to do. It set out to be an action film, and that's exactly what it is.

TWINE might have been the most God-awful James Bond movie yet.

TND was great - good call.

[CJB]

Probably TWINE.

[Dalton's Wendy]

Probably TWINE.

Agree, Commander James Bond.

Welcome to CBn.

By the way . . . by any chance, do you live near Russell Crowe?

[freemo]

TWINE.

I remain convinced that this frequent whipping post will someday be more generally well-regarded.

Really? I actually think the reverse is true, and that TWINEs reputation will continue to get worse as time goes by, and that's if it's even remembered at all.

[David Schofield]

They're all a pretty uninspiring bunch, really. I never, personally, saw much of an inprovement in Brozza in the role from GE to DAD.

That said, TND has clearly the best, most simple set up. The second half is quite appalling BUT if you have Bond DRIVE the BMW - James Bond in a car chase in a BMW in far more original that driving it by remote control - chuck in an extra scene or two with Carver to improve Carver impact in the film and perhaps play on the "father and son", "my dear boy stuff" and devlop Bond's hatred of Carver as a lunatic (as it is Brozza only seems pissed off at Carver for having the balls to get Paris down the isle while he clucked out), let Stamper actually torture Bond, keep Wai Lin hostage - and therefore out of the action: Bond goes onto the the Stealth Boat to rescue her - not kill quite as many on the ship, you have a pretty decent Bond film.

[Bondesque]

TWINE had the most potential of Brosnans Bonds but its faults are so large that it will never overcome them IMHO. TND is merely a cartoon action film that has zero depth. DAD is...well DAD. I would say that GE is as close to Brosnan came to making a quality Bond film.

The most underrated Brosnan film however is the Fourth Protocol in which he was absolutely brilliant. That was a well done bond portrayal (who wasn't even Bond)

also the Tailor of Panama rates quite high.

[Bon-san]

In re my point about a reevaluation of TWINE:


I recall the days (say, 1980-2000) when Moonraker was just savaged by all and sundry as a pitiful film. It has in recent years been reconsidered by a great, great many. Moonraker and TWINE are clearly different films, but there is a similarity in the vehemence with which they have been dissed. I also feel there is a similarity in that they are both flawed films that have some substantial merit. Hence my assumption that TWINE will enjoy an upswing in its reputation. I could of course be in error in this assumption.


One thing that strikes me as unwarranted is the oft-repeated criticism that TWINE is pretentious.

One definition of pretentious:

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.

I have neither read nor heard any claim by any of the production staff, either before, during or after filming, that TWINE was worthy of meritorious distinction vis a vis any other Bond film. Nor do I recall any allegations that it was to be substantially distinct from other films in the canon (i.e., a reboot, a new approach, "and now for something completely different," etc.) There was the usual 'We're going back to Fleming' stuff that has been trotted out for every Bond film since, oh, FYEO. But I don't think there was any unusual claim to artistic heights or novel approaches. And within the film itself, I see no aspirations to grandeur. I DO see the material treated with a bit less disdain than in many of the other Bond films from 1971 onward.

Another definition of pretentious:

2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious.

Which, of course, describes ALL Bond films, and is in fact, for many of us, a beloved aspect thereof.


I would never argue that TWINE is brilliant, but I don't get the almost angry critical reaction to it by many Bond fans.

[Genrewriter]

Same here. I find it to be an adequate, middle of the road outing with some very good elements but also some rather serious flaws (script, Denise Richards dialogue, dull finale). It has some good action (pretitles, caviar factory), the casino scene is good and Sophie Marceau makes for a very good villain. I'd compare it to Men in black II, actually. Both films have some very good moments but are hurt by a rather by the numbers, low energy feel that takes away from the good stuff within.

[Problem Eliminator]

In re my point about a reevaluation of TWINE:


I recall the days (say, 1980-2000) when Moonraker was just savaged by all and sundry as a pitiful film. It has in recent years been reconsidered by a great, great many. Moonraker and TWINE are clearly different films, but there is a similarity in the vehemence with which they have been dissed. I also feel there is a similarity in that they are both flawed films that have some substantial merit. Hence my assumption that TWINE will enjoy an upswing in its reputation. I could of course be in error in this assumption.


One thing that strikes me as unwarranted is the oft-repeated criticism that TWINE is pretentious.

One definition of pretentious:

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.

I have neither read nor heard any claim by any of the production staff, either before, during or after filming, that TWINE was worthy of meritorious distinction vis a vis any other Bond film. Nor do I recall any allegations that it was to be substantially distinct from other films in the canon (i.e., a reboot, a new approach, "and now for something completely different," etc.) There was the usual 'We're going back to Fleming' stuff that has been trotted out for every Bond film since, oh, FYEO. But I don't think there was any unusual claim to artistic heights or novel approaches. And within the film itself, I see no aspirations to grandeur. I DO see the material treated with a bit less disdain than in many of the other Bond films from 1971 onward.

Another definition of pretentious:

2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious.

Which, of course, describes ALL Bond films, and is in fact, for many of us, a beloved aspect thereof.


I would never argue that TWINE is brilliant, but I don't get the almost angry critical reaction to it by many Bond fans.

OUTSTANDING post Bon-san. I agree 100%, TWINE is a personal favorite of mine. I voted TND in this poll because it seems to not have much talk of any kind about it, whereas TWINE at least has some "buzz" (though irrationally negative in most cases).

[Dmitri Mishkin]

The angry critical reaction, from my point of view, arises from the fact that TWINE tries to show something that Bond does not represent. And that is Bond expressing overt sensitivity to relationships with women. Sure, you might argue that in OHMSS, Bond marries a woman, for pete's sake. Or still, in TND, Bond reopens a relationship with a former flame. However, nowhere has Bond been so melodramatic, so defensive, and so openly emotional, as the scene in which he exhorts Electra to "drop the act" and then angrily reprimands her for her supposed allegiance to Renard.

And while it was never openly touted by the filmmakers as being somehow artistically superior in merit, the mere attempt to insert a scene that attempts to use psychological theory in the context of a Bond picture and then expect it to be taken seriously, is itself an inflated assumption. There are certain boundaries and that scene took it too far in its ambition to be something more than the characteristically fun, jovial entertainment that the franchise is known for. Personally, I found it to be completely out of place, as I believe others did, for it crossed the line of what Bond IS, which is a man that, fundamentally, does not bother to display emotion: he simply moves on.

[JimmyBond]

However, nowhere has Bond been so melodramatic, so defensive, and so openly emotional, as the scene in which he exhorts Electra to "drop the act" and then angrily reprimands her for her supposed allegiance to Renard.

Worse than that, the scene accomplishes nothing. Bond is still unsure if he's right about Elektra or not, he has learned nothing he didnt already know. And on top of that, the scene has Bond seacond guessing himself. As you said Mishkin, a scene that so utterly gets the character of Bond wrong.

[The Richmond Spy]

I went with TWINE.

What can I say? I think this film is pretty darn good.

[xx007xx]

While I would probably vote TND, I am surprised to see such little recognition for Die Another Day- a film I saw 4 times in the theater. I can't put my finger on it- but something about the film was highly appealing.

[Aussie21]

While I would probably vote TND, I am surprised to see such little recognition for Die Another Day- a film I saw 4 times in the theater. I can't put my finger on it- but something about the film was highly appealing.

Bite your tongue, xx007xx!

Actually, I do agree with you in a sense. I find it a terrific movie to zone out to on a slow evening. I don't think it was Brosnan's best (that honor goes to GE in my book), but I don't think it was necessarily bad either.

Edited by Aussie21, 24 May 2006 - 02:07 AM.

[Vanish]

As much as it pains me to do so, I've got to give my vote to Die Another Day.

Goldeneye is perfect in my eyes, and a significant number of fans are enthusiastic for it.

TND is extremely overrated by most fans, in my opinion, so it can't possibly be underrated.

TWINE deserves the disdain that it gets, despite its few shining positive qualities.

Which brings us to Die Another Day... a film that has some truly awful qualities, yet remains a livelier and generally more entertaining film than either TND or TWINE. At least it had a terrific opening sequence, some great locations, nice Bond/Q interplay ("I think you've been down here too long..."), a far more satisfying villain, and Rosamund Pike.

Die Another Day it is.

[MooreisMore]

Almost a tie between TND and DAD. TND is one of the better Bond films I think but DAD is just TOO hated. I find myself able to watch it and it's a fun movie! The first half is great and it's only after the BRILLIANT sword fight it gets a bit silly.

I'm going for DAD even though I LOVE TND.

[ThunderhearT]

TWINE for me. Goldeneye was incredible and TND was alright and to me DAD was horrible......(should i be smacked for that?)
but yeah goin for TWINE

[Qwerty]

should i be smacked for that?)

You'll find many others on here who weren't too fond of Die Another Day.

[The Richmond Spy]

should i be smacked for that?)

You'll find many others on here who weren't too fond of Die Another Day.

It is the truth, you'd probably be smacked if you didn't say it!

Not by me though.