60 replies to this topic

[smartz]

Last night after much begging i decided to take my son Jake to see the PInk Panther.....oh good it was sooo bad. It was an utter waste of time and effort for all of those involved. When Clive Owen came on screen for his James Bond wink wink cameo....he was wooden, his delivery was stale and he looked like a cheap imitation....

To be honest after watching it i felt so pleased that we had the likes of DC in the role. I have always rated DC but diud think that clive Owen would have been equally good. How wrong i was.....

Oh in case you were thinking about seeing the Pink Panther....DONT!

[the doctor]

i dont really believe in rating an actors "imitation" preformence simply because 1.its a cameo and 2. the actor isnt going to give as much effort as an actor in the the actual role would.

[doublenoughtspy]

I agree with the doctor. Owen in a tux, with a fruity drink in his hand, talking about the weather? He wasn't supposed to look or act cool the way the director shot it.

[gkgyver]

Oh, that useless guy was actually Clive Owen? Honestly, I didn't know that before

Come on, The Pink Panther isn't that bad. It's not the Pink Panther, but it's funny.

[Dr. Noah]

i dont really believe in rating an actors "imitation" preformence simply because 1.its a cameo and 2. the actor isnt going to give as much effort as an actor in the the actual role would.

An "imitation" performance where he doesn't have to try as hard? Yup, we missed out on one hell of an actor...

[mkkbb]

i thought he wasn't very good. his voice was horrible. I was a big supporter of him for Bond, but now I can see DC was a far better choice. better actor, better voice, more coolness.

[crheath]

He was supposed to be a cheap imitation ... that was the point of the cameo.

[Stax]

You're right. That was the point of his cameo, hence the "007" joke Steve Martin makes. I think Owen might have slept-walked through the Bond role if he had gotten it. If everyone thinks you're perfect for it then what do you really have to do except show up and say your lines? He'd have nothing to prove, no challenge. Daniel Craig is a big gamble, maybe it won't work out, but I bet you he is giving it his all because he knows there is a lot he has to prove to people. That brings out more in a performance.

Edited by Stax, 26 March 2006 - 08:12 PM.

[Pussfeller]

That's probably why Brosnan was so lackluster, especially in his later films. Everyone always said he was "born to be Bond", and he must have come to believe it. If Owen had been cast, he would have probably phoned it in too.

I'm excited about Craig because he does have a lot to prove, and he's known for pushing himself.

[Bloodlust1966]

While it's true that you can't judge the "Owen as Bond" fantasy scenario solely on what was intended to be a comedic spoof cameo, there are other key examples to consider.

When speculation began as to who would succeed Brosnan, I was one of those who initially rooted for Clive Owen, mainly because I felt he really "looked" the part. Up to that point I really hadn't seen him in much.

However, when I saw him as the lead in both King Arthur and a little British crime thriller called I'll Sleep When I'm Dead, I changed my mind. I found him rather flat and monotone in both roles, which surprised me. I suppose some might point to his good work in Closer and Sin City as contrary evidence, but then we're talking apples & oranges. Closer was an ensemble drama that didn't require Owen to carry the film. In Sin City, his one-note monotone delivery was actually a plus because it fit right into the Mickey Spillane'esque dialogue style of the film noir genre.

When I finally saw Daniel Craig's performance in Layer Cake, I knew exactly why EON chose him.

In fact, after hearing that Owen was doing a 007 spoof cameo in The Pink Panther, I have to wonder whether the rumours about him ever actually being offered the real 007 role (and turning it down) aren't just a load of rubbish. If one does not wish to be associated with a certain role, then why take a similar second-hand part... unless of course he did it before all the Craig stuff and (at the time) was expecting the call to play 007 from EON - a call that never came.

Ah, the joys of speculation.

[mario007]

No matter what people say ... I think Owen would have been a terrible choice as bond. I've seen quite a few of his films including the coupier. He does not have enough charisma to carry the role of bond. Hence he would have been an average/poor bond phoning in his performance had he gotten the role. I am very excited about Craig! Craig had awsome charisma in layer cake and was cool as hell in munich!

[Loomis]

You're right. That was the point of his cameo, hence the "007" joke Steve Martin makes. I think Owen might have slept-walked through the Bond role if he had gotten it. If everyone think's you're perfect for it then what do you really have to do except show up and say your lines? He'd have nothing to prove, no challenge. Daniel Craig is a big gamble, maybe it won't work out, but I bet you he is giving it his all because he knows there is a lot he has to prove to people. That brings out more in a performance.

That's probably why Brosnan was so lackluster, especially in his later films. Everyone always said he was "born to be Bond", and he must have come to believe it. If Owen had been cast, he would have probably phoned it in too.

I'm excited about Craig because he does have a lot to prove, and he's known for pushing himself.

Excellent points, Stax and Pussfeller, and I agree with you 100%.

I always championed Owen, but Craig was the correct choice. I initially dismissed Craig as "a poor man's Owen", but, actually, Owen would have been a poor man's Craig. Well done, Eon and Sony.

[Stax]

Thing is, I really like Owen. Croupier was good, and he was excellent in Closer. I even like those BMW "Hire" shorts.

[Andrew]

I always championed Owen, but Craig was the correct choice. I initially dismissed Craig as "a poor man's Owen", but, actually, Owen would have been a poor man's Craig. Well done, Eon and Sony.

Same thing with me. Perfectly put Loomis.

[Simon]

Excellent points, Stax and Pussfeller, and I agree with you 100%.

I always championed Owen, but Craig was the correct choice. I initially dismissed Craig as "a poor man's Owen", but, actually, Owen would have been a poor man's Craig. Well done, Eon and Sony.

Really?

When I saw the title of this thread I clicked in only to see how this was going to be defended by your good self.

There appears to be a reversal of opinion - care to share??

My stance on Owen's suitability has always been along the wooden one note line with minimal charisma to carry a role. It's his voice. As the chap charging around in the BMW films, he was fine, but only because he was required to stay silent and rely entirely on the look.

A mute Bond perhaps....or did I mean moot?

[Loomis]

Excellent points, Stax and Pussfeller, and I agree with you 100%.

I always championed Owen, but Craig was the correct choice. I initially dismissed Craig as "a poor man's Owen", but, actually, Owen would have been a poor man's Craig. Well done, Eon and Sony.

Really?

When I saw the title of this thread I clicked in only to see how this was going to be defended by your good self.

There appears to be a reversal of opinion - care to share??

I reckon Owen would in some ways have been an excellent Bond, but perhaps more trouble than he was worth, and a very short-lived 007, bringing just that little bit too much star baggage to the role (I feel the same way about Jackman, too).

I don't think he'd have been terrible, by any means, and he'd certainly have had his moments of greatness, but he'd also have worn out his welcome very quickly. As I'm sure you'd agree, he can be somewhat one-note and wooden.

Stax puts it perfectly: I think Owen might have slept-walked through the Bond role if he had gotten it. If everyone think's you're perfect for it then what do you really have to do except show up and say your lines? He'd have nothing to prove, no challenge.

[Bloodlust1966]

I agree. You could have had a Bond film(s) with either Owen or Jackman and I think they'd have been OK. Neither of them would've looked out of place.

However, I feel they would have stayed the course and wound up with a Brosnan-style 007 film just with a different face. Judging by the direction they're planning to take with Casino Royale, someone with superlative acting chops + leading man charisma is now required.

If that's the new criteria then, from what I've seen of all three actors (Craig, Owen, Jackman), DC is the best choice.

[SeanValen00V]

Last night after much begging i decided to take my son Jake to see the PInk Panther.....oh good it was sooo bad. It was an utter waste of time and effort for all of those involved. When Clive Owen came on screen for his James Bond wink wink cameo....he was wooden, his delivery was stale and he looked like a cheap imitation....

To be honest after watching it i felt so pleased that we had the likes of DC in the role. I have always rated DC but diud think that clive Owen would have been equally good. How wrong i was.....

Oh in case you were thinking about seeing the Pink Panther....DONT!

Well Hugh Jackman was the top choice for Bond, Craig came after Jackman, and Craig don't hold a candle to Jackman. Brosnan should of done his 5th, and Jackman in 2007, should of been the new Bond, would of been great. Ashame the producers had no sense or lost taste in how to cast the hardest role on the planet to cast.


Just because Barbara chose Craig, doesn't mean she got it right. He looks far too old to be a Bond starting out, that's the major beef, in 3 years time he'll probabley look like how Brosnan looks now lol.

[Pussfeller]

I doubt Jackman was ever seriously considered. He would certainly be able to handle the part, but I don't think he has the charisma, and certainly not the power, of someone like Craig. I agree with those who compare him to Moore. He would be light, airy, and dashing, but not particularly interesting. Incidentally, Jackman is only five months younger than Craig.

As for Owen, I might like to see him in one Bond film, but nothing more than that. He doesn't seem to be a very innovative actor. I agree that he's wooden, and something of a one-note guy. I would still vastly prefer him to McMahon and Rikki Lee.

Whatever happened to Butler? I thought he would have been good in the part. Better than Owen or Jackman.

[Gobi-1]

I was wanting to see the Pink Panther so bad. Nobody in my family would go with me the first weekend and I fell ill the second. We were planing to go on the third and we opened the paper and it was already gone. After two weeks! I really hate what's happen with movies these days. Two weeks and your gone. If you don't see it the opening weekend you'll probably not going to see it at all.

Still the DVD could be out as early as late May considering King Kong is hitting shelves three months after's it's theatrical release.

The Pink Panther has already made 130 million worldwide and SONY has greenlighted a sequel so they must be pleased they'll have two successful franchises, Bond and the Pink Panther.

[Flash1087]

I, for the record, thought The Pink Panther was hilarious. And yes, I like the Sellers originals too.

As far as Owen's performance goes, it may have been influenced by the fact it's basically a joke role. Were he to have been cast, he may actually have given a crap. I'm perfectly fine with Craig, though.

[SeanSean]

Whatever happened to Butler? I thought he would have been good in the part. Better than Owen or Jackman.

I'd like to know the answer to this also. A while back when CBn released the final shortlist of names, he was on it. Apparently he tested for the role but wasn't selected. I can't seem to find the link but there were something like 18 names on the list, 5 of whom were finalists who did full screen tests.
Butler wasn't one of the final 5.

Edit, here is the link I was talking about: http://commanderbond...es/2995-1.shtml

Edited by SeanSean, 26 March 2006 - 08:39 AM.

[Santa]

Whatever happened to Butler? I thought he would have been good in the part. Better than Owen or Jackman.

I'd like to know the answer to this also. A while back when CBn released the final shortlist of names, he was on it. Apparently he tested for the role but wasn't selected. I can't seem to find the link but there were something like 18 names on the list, 5 of whom were finalists who did full screen tests.
Butler wasn't one of the final 5.

Edit, here is the link I was talking about: http://commanderbond...es/2995-1.shtml

I've been wondering about that too, he seemed a very strong candidate. Although I think he may have been just a bit too sexy. That man could make every woman around him swoon, which would make him a little difficult to take seriously as Bond. Thinking about it, he could be a good Bond villain.

[Pussfeller]

Butler was actually my first choice, but Santajosep has a point. He is a bit too much of a "beefcake". A Bond actor should be appealing, but not "hunky". He would make a good villain, although I'm hoping we'll see more older villains in the years to come. I miss the days of menacing middle-aged megalomaniacs like Blofeld, Largo, and Goldfinger for that matter. We haven't had a villain like that since the Moore era.

In the first thirteen Bond films, Bond is younger than the main villain. Beginning with AVTAK, Bond has usually been older than the main villain. In fact, there have only been two films since Octopussy in which Bond is younger than the villain - and then only by a few years.

AVTAK: Max Zorin - age 42 (Bond - age 58)
TLD: Georgi Koskov - age 43 (Bond - age 40)
LTK: Franz Sanchez - age 35 (Bond - age 43)
GE: Alec Trevelyan - age 36 (Bond - age 42)
TND: Elliot Carver - age 50 (Bond - age 44)
TWINE: Renard - age 38 (Bond - age 46)
DAD: Gustav Graves - age 33 (Bond - age 49)

We need older villains. It just isn't right for Bond to battle guys who are sixteen years younger than he is. He feels too much like an authority figure.

How the hell did I get so off-topic?!

[Gobi-1]

Well Mads Mikklesen is three years older then Craig.

[Pussfeller]

It's a start!

[stone cold]

Saw Owen in 'Inside Man' ..hmmm he's ok but no thanks, not as Bond...I just don't think he's in Craig's league in terms of charisma, screen presence or acting ability or looks. I dont mind Clive Owen.. In croupier he's good.. and in Closer he is also powerful.

He's a difficult one because i know people who think his monotone is virtually indistinguishable from bad acting, and he does seem sort of one note in some ways. I think Daniel Craig is a far more powerful presence, more commanding in a way because he also seems to have a more intense emotional range and power in him, he is physically more magnetic and charged. Owen just sort of stands there. ( but obviously he wouldnt if he was Bond..but...i'm just glad we've got Craig.. he's a far more exciting actor and we will be rooting for his Bond..he has that ability to be flawed, captivating but strongly likable to an audience.. I cant wait til audiences actually see that. ) I kind of like Owen though .. he has a brutally handsome pissed off english vibe i respect - but he doesnt take it to another place..he is an everyman gone worng.. he's got some great performances in him I'm sure.

I dont think there is any doubt in my mind that Craig is an astonishing choice for James Bond. You might know i feel really strongly about this already so i won't go on about it - I am so strongly on Craig's side here because I have been won over - I cant wait to see his Bond. I'm sure he will be amazing - I'm a big fan of both Bond and Craig and i see this as a rare piece of eerily perfect casting. Owen to me, despite his qualities, is not right for Bond in the same way some squeeky clean 'young' bond, a Brosnan copy, actor would not have been right either.. IMO

Edited by stone cold, 26 March 2006 - 06:41 PM.

[Pussfeller]

SC, you've pretty much summed up my feelings on both actors. The question of range is central. Craig has it and Owen doesn't. They're really very different actors, vis-a-vis style and approach. Both are very professional and convincing, but Craig seems to be more capable of really becoming a character, whereas Owen seems to play himself in every film.

[SeanSean]

I saw Inside Man also. I really like Owen in this. To me in just about everything I've seen him in, the camera just loves him. He's just got a great, dark, brooding presence.

I never understood those who say he would play Bond by the numbers in a similar way to Brosnan. I don't see that at all. I think he'd be the darkest Bond yet, even more so then Dalton or Craig. I think he'd take the character to some new places.

I'm really happy with the choice of Craig, he'll be great. But I think Clive would have been great as well, and with a physical appearance that I think most everyone would agree is closer to what James Bond should be.

[Seannery]

I doubt Jackman was ever seriously considered. He would certainly be able to handle the part, but I don't think he has the charisma, and certainly not the power, of someone like Craig. I agree with those who compare him to Moore. He would be light, airy, and dashing, but not particularly interesting. Incidentally, Jackman is only five months younger than Craig.

As for Owen, I might like to see him in one Bond film, but nothing more than that. He doesn't seem to be a very innovative actor. I agree that he's wooden, and something of a one-note guy. I would still vastly prefer him to McMahon and Rikki Lee.

Whatever happened to Butler? I thought he would have been good in the part. Better than Owen or Jackman.

Jackman would have been(and possibly may be) an excellent Bond--and charisma and power, he's got a ton of it. Owen never had it as Bond for me and Pink Panther verified that--a very funny movie IMO. Don't buy he wasn't trying enough in the cameo either--a lot of cameos have through the years been powerful and impactful.