130 replies to this topic

[avl]

arrghh..the haters are back!

why is anyone who doesn't support every aspect of this production mindlessly
called a hater?? surely doubter is a more accurate and mature term?

In fairness to Stone Cold he explained up the thread somewhere that he was mainly referring to people on other sites. You must admit that there is a level of unthinking vitriol around, not on here, for which haters does seem to be an appropriate word.

It's fine to have doubts...

I'm not so keen on anyone who is positive about CR being labelled a "cheerleader" either...my legs are too hairy for the short skirts I believe they generally wear

[JimmyBond]

I thought about starting a thread on this, but I'll just raise the question here. If some of us are very optimistic about Craig and the new film why are we termed a cheerleader? Do we have to all have a "wait and see" attitude? What if I honestly think the film will be good fun?

[Seannery]

I thought about starting a thread on this, but I'll just raise the question here. If some of us are very optimistic about Craig and the new film why are we termed a cheerleader? Do we have to all have a "wait and see" attitude? What if I honestly think the film will be good fun?

Let me clear my cheerleader statement up:


I wasn't saying those who have a positive perspective on Craig are cheerleaders. I WAS SAYING those who say we can ONLY have a positive view beforehand WANT us to act like cheerleaders.

My point is we all are predicting and guessing how Craig will do before the movie comes out. And that a positive, negative or somewhat neutral view are all valid--AND that none of those views should be automatically dismissed. ALL THE VIEWS ARE VALID AND DEBATABLE.

[RevolveR]

Seannery's first post is totally correct. Most of you love Bond so much that you are blind to reality. As much as I want the optimists to be correct on their assumptions, I have more doubts each day.

[Seannery]

Seannery's first post is totally correct. Most of you love Bond so much that you are blind to reality. As much as I want the optimists to be correct on their assumptions, I have more doubts each day.

Thanks and though I have some doubts about Craig being well cast as Bond, I still think those that are positive could end up right.

To me it's guesswork by everyone and there is no one right view.

[avl]

Most of you love Bond so much that you are blind to reality.

You've been talking to my wife, haven't you

[avl]

Let me clear my cheerleader statement up:


I wasn't saying those who have a positive perspective on Craig are cheerleaders. I WAS SAYING those who say we can ONLY have a positive view beforehand WANT us to act like cheerleaders.

My point is we all are predicting and guessing how Craig will do before the movie comes out. And that a positive, negative or somewhat neutral view are all valid--AND that none of those views should be automatically dismissed. ALL THE VIEWS ARE VALID AND DEBATABLE.

Well that is of course true. I just think a certain ammount of cheerleading from fully paid up Bond fans is appropriate - if we can't put our doubts on hold and get excited about the film, who can?

The problem comes when the finished product is out and then you find yourself left cold while the rest of the world goes nuts about it...as I found with the new series of Doctor Who...but thats a story for another forum...

[Seannery]

Let me clear my cheerleader statement up:


I wasn't saying those who have a positive perspective on Craig are cheerleaders. I WAS SAYING those who say we can ONLY have a positive view beforehand WANT us to act like cheerleaders.

My point is we all are predicting and guessing how Craig will do before the movie comes out. And that a positive, negative or somewhat neutral view are all valid--AND that none of those views should be automatically dismissed. ALL THE VIEWS ARE VALID AND DEBATABLE.

Well that is of course true. I just think a certain ammount of cheerleading from fully paid up Bond fans is appropriate - if we can't put our doubts on hold and get excited about the film, who can?

The problem comes when the finished product is out and then you find yourself left cold while the rest of the world goes nuts about it...as I found with the new series of Doctor Who...but thats a story for another forum...

I'm fine with anyone cheering and being optimistic about CR or anything else for that matter AND i'm fine with others having doubts. It's up to the person --it's human nature to see things differently. I'll argue my view and let others do the same. I think most here are like that too as you certainly seem to be.

[avl]

I'll argue my view and let others do the same. I think most here are like that too as you certainly seem to be.

Yay for Cbn, group hug everybody

[Kara Milovy]

arrghh..the haters are back!

why is anyone who doesn't support every aspect of this production mindlessly
called a hater?? surely doubter is a more accurate and mature term?

I've watched this exchange and I finally put my finger on what has bothered me all along. Not just being called a "hater," but disgust specifically that haters are "back."

When the Craig announcement was made, some of us reacted very negatively. Now, we're all Bond fans, otherwise we'd find someplace else to hang out. And in my years as a Bond fan, I've seen various people argue about various things. Lots of people hate AVTAK, and some defend it. Some people hate Dalton, and others defend him. I have always defended Tiffany Case against enormous fan hatred.

But only in the case of Craig has one group of "haters" been made to feel unwelcome.

We who hate or doubt or dislike Craig are "back" because we are not leaving. We are Bond fans and have every bit as much right to that appellation as anyone else.

[avl]

So thats a no on the Group hug then Kara?

Seriously, how can you "hate" what you have not yet seen. I can "hate" AVTAK because I've seen it and Rog is too old and the film is just a bit lame.

But you have not seen CR or Craig as Bond. Until you do, as a good Bond fan I think you should refrain from "hating" him. Doubt all you like, and get back to the hating when you've got the evidence to condemn.

[doublenoughtspy]

She already made a convincing argument that Craig doesn't fit the meme of James Bond for a lot of people.

Hate is a strong word.

I don't hate Craig, and labeling people who think he isn't right for Bond shouldn't be grouped together as "Craig Haters."

I agree that everyone should wait to see his work - but I'd ask that the same standard be applied to the people who are saying he will be better than Connery.

[Kara Milovy]

So thats a no on the Group hug then Kara?

You're married.

Seriously, how can you "hate" what you have not yet seen. I can "hate" AVTAK because I've seen it and Rog is too old and the film is just a bit lame.

I've seen Daniel Craig in four movies. There's a different between a good estimate and a blind guess, and this isn't a blind guess. I've said all along that he could be great as Bond. BUT I already know that (1) Brosnan shouldn't have been booted, (2) I don't like the choice or the way it was made, (3) I don't like his looks.

Until you do, as a good Bond fan I think you should refrain from "hating" him. Doubt all you like, and get back to the hating when you've got the evidence to condemn.

Yeah, well, the part I don't like is how there's a group of people here who think they have a right to tell me whether or not I'm a "good Bond fan." I'm from New Jersey, and as we say here, "Bite me."

Edited by Kara Milovy, 03 March 2006 - 05:26 PM.

[JimmyBond]

Well said Kara. No one should be made to feel that they are wrong. You have every right to be cautious concerning the film, you also have seen Craig in a few films, so you're definately not blaming you're opinion on just a picture of Craig.

I just happen to be in the camp that feels Bond is more an attitude and less looks really (though I do think Craig fits the bill in the looks department as well). Will I be proven wrong? Perhaps I will, there is no video of Craig as Bond yet so I don't know if he'll be a horrible Bond or not, and niether do you

[Seannery]

Okay, cancel the love-in. Seriously strong back and forth is fine--it doesn't have to always be lovey dovey. As Bond fans we have the right to have whatever view we want and then fight for or just discuss it. The forum should be equally open to any view on Bond issues--and that's that.

[avl]

Yeah, well, the part I don't like is how there's a group of people here who think they have a right to tell me whether or not I'm a "good Bond fan." I'm from New Jersey, and as we say here, "Bite me."

I'm sure you are a "Good Bond Fan" - and as such, I just think we should all give the guy the benefit of the doubt (especially as the media is out to lynch him at the moment), of course with reservations for those of us who are, lets say unconvinced , until we see him do his stuff. I'm from London: its just good old english fair play

And I'm not biting anybody

[stone cold]

man ... i cant wait for this film!

i have my doubts trust me. im nervous, tense , excited - i have nightmares about the film being rubbish .. i have dreams of it being awesome and Craig winning an oscar. Both of these are unrealistic..maybe. I have more nightmares about classy, talented, underdog, nice guy Daniel Craig getting destroyed by the media and others .. and sometimes this has come true in the pettiest most judgemental irrational saddest way. I cant pretend this doesnt upset me.. Lets wait and see he might be great, he might not... but the feeling that some are almost willing him to fail depresses me and ***** me off. People seem to get a malicious kick out of dissing him. You guys don't ...i mean some other folks. so just.. calm it.

we all got opinions... i wish somehow forums could generate momentum in some way..not endless circling. When its closer to the release date i guess all our opinions and hopes and fears will become more acute... this forum might even collapse under the weight of it. Should be fun. You know i cant wait for EON to start putting out some stuff cos we are going to tear it apart, fight over it, celebrate it.. its awesome. Im so bored at work at the moment.. This whole Craig as Bond thing has just totally captured my imagination. here it is for the record... IMO Craig might just make the best Bond ever, different yes but actually all we've ever wanted all along... even those who dont like him or who are pessimistic can agree that we'd all love to see him blow us away. I think he has the magic that can make that happen..( the unthinkable?)There is common ground between us.


I didnt mean to get anyones back up by calling some haters... i meant the hardcore doom merchants - where its like.. what the point in being a fan?.. i mean the all-out 100% dismissive anti-Craig people, anti CasinoRoyale, anti reboot - boycotters..the whole package - not my dear, sincere, concerned, mega-knowledgable loving Bond fans. i dont think that hater list includes many souls on this forum. ok - i was dismayed at the negativity on some threads... but im not a mindless cheerleader. if i was to vent my worries in full it would be the worlds bleakest ever post on Cbn. I don't want to do that post, i want to stir up some passion and that was a decision i made - to make an effort - pity i came across as a braindead cheerleader. I will cast more sober, sombre reflections now in light of this. With the odd heart on sleeve, cringeworthy EMO posts ..occasionally.

a new james Bond movie is coming out, its Casino Royale - updated .. a seemingly respectful and willful return to classic Bond, but also to modernise an incresingly dated formula and frankly an outdated Bond IMO. This film sounds awesome to me - the quality is high. Craig is a suicidedly brave, almost supernatural piece of casting. i just want to get some positivism going cos the downer stuff was getting me dejected. Although i truly respect all of it... we are all fans, but if we dont get hyped in some way noone will . that doesnt mean blanket optimism .. it just means .. i dont know... create some heat, keep that buzz, that energy - good and bad.... we need an escalation of all things Bond!!!.

group hug

[avl]

a new james Bond movie is coming out, its Casino Royale - updated .. a seemingly respectful and willful return to classic Bond, but also to modernise an incresingly dated formula and frankly an outdated Bond IMO. This film sounds awesome to me - the quality is high. Craig is a suicidedly brave, almost supernatural piece of casting. i just want to get some positivism going cos the downer stuff was getting me dejected. Although i truly respect all of it... we are all fans, but if we dont get hyped in some way noone will . that doesnt mean blanket optimism .. it just means .. i dont know... create some heat, keep that buzz, that energy - good and bad.... we need an escalation of all things Bond!!!.

group hug

I'm loving your work Stone Cold

[stone cold]

actually **** the group hug..we should just fight, in the street...

...running battles, any weapons you can find.. global Bond fan civil war... multiple casualties, rivers of blood ... intense, solemn Craig discussions to the very last breath..

.. man i need a CR poster/trailer soon dont i. this is hell.

Edited by stone cold, 03 March 2006 - 06:01 PM.

[JimmyBond]

Wow stone cold. You actually seem to be more enthused about this film than I am Luckily I have other things to tide me over till then, most notably the great movies I'm going to be seeing come this summer.

[luciusgore]

I thought about starting a thread on this, but I'll just raise the question here. If some of us are very optimistic about Craig and the new film why are we termed a cheerleader? Do we have to all have a "wait and see" attitude? What if I honestly think the film will be good fun?

Let me clear my cheerleader statement up:


I wasn't saying those who have a positive perspective on Craig are cheerleaders. I WAS SAYING those who say we can ONLY have a positive view beforehand WANT us to act like cheerleaders.

My point is we all are predicting and guessing how Craig will do before the movie comes out. And that a positive, negative or somewhat neutral view are all valid--AND that none of those views should be automatically dismissed. ALL THE VIEWS ARE VALID AND DEBATABLE.

Agreed. The Cheerleaders are so blindly optimistic, even if Craig is soundly rejected AFTER CR hits theaters, they will likely still be singing his praises. If CR bombs, they will say it was great, that the fact it failed is just the public's problem.

Truth is, Craig is being rejected right now as James Bond. This is not good. As Bond fans, we should voice our opinion about this. Let Eon know: We want success, not failure. I am curious what motivates the cheerleaders to be so blind in their support.

[EyesOnly]

They are not blinded in their support. It's Bond..anything Bond they love, same goes for me. IMO not talking down DC is support in itself! What else can they possibly do? They can't get ahold of anyone at EON, and even if they did...in one ear, out the other!

Edited by EyesOnly, 03 March 2006 - 06:16 PM.

[stone cold]

Edited by stone cold, 03 March 2006 - 06:15 PM.

[avl]

Agreed. The Cheerleaders are so blindly optimistic, even if Craig is soundly rejected AFTER CR hits theaters, they will likely still be singing his praises. If CR bombs, they will say it was great, that the fact it failed is just the public's problem.

Truth is, Craig is being rejected right now as James Bond. This is not good. As Bond fans, we should voice our opinion about this. Let Eon know: We want success, not failure. I am curious what motivates the cheerleaders to be so blind in their support.

If I like him in CR, and all the world thinks he sucks, I'll still like him and say so. I'm a Dalton fan, this is business as usual for me.

I still don't like cheerleader, or Hater for that matter. I'm going to call myself a Craig:Positive from now on, as distinct from the Craig:Negatives like Lucius.

[stone cold]

"I am curious what motivates the cheerleaders to be so blind in their support.
" lusciousgore

this is quite a simple comment considering what some cautiously/optimistically pro-Craig people have posted above... . read some of the previous posts.

[avl]

"I am curious what motivates the cheerleaders to be so blind in their support.
" lusciousgore

this is quite a simple comment considering what some cautiously/optimistically pro-Craig people have posted above... . read some of the previous posts.

Read the posts, wait and watch the film...some people just don't want to put the work in do they

[Seannery]

I thought about starting a thread on this, but I'll just raise the question here. If some of us are very optimistic about Craig and the new film why are we termed a cheerleader? Do we have to all have a "wait and see" attitude? What if I honestly think the film will be good fun?

Let me clear my cheerleader statement up:


I wasn't saying those who have a positive perspective on Craig are cheerleaders. I WAS SAYING those who say we can ONLY have a positive view beforehand WANT us to act like cheerleaders.

My point is we all are predicting and guessing how Craig will do before the movie comes out. And that a positive, negative or somewhat neutral view are all valid--AND that none of those views should be automatically dismissed. ALL THE VIEWS ARE VALID AND DEBATABLE.

Agreed. The Cheerleaders are so blindly optimistic, even if Craig is soundly rejected AFTER CR hits theaters, they will likely still be singing his praises. If CR bombs, they will say it was great, that the fact it failed is just the public's problem.

Truth is, Craig is being rejected right now as James Bond. This is not good. As Bond fans, we should voice our opinion about this. Let Eon know: We want success, not failure. I am curious what motivates the cheerleaders to be so blind in their support.

That's not what I said concerning cheerleader--look above to see that. Again ALL THE VIEWS ARE VALID AND DEBATABLE.

My opinion on "Is the public rejecting Craig as Bond?"--no, not yet. There is some potential for that because he doesn't fit the cinematic Bond image and these media critiques don't help BUT if CR rocks then Craig could overcome this. Will he? I'm not sure.

Nothing we do here will make the film a success or not--it depends on the film and if it clicks with the general public.

[Kara Milovy]

Okay, cancel the love-in. Seriously strong back and forth is fine--it doesn't have to always be lovey dovey. As Bond fans we have the right to have whatever view we want and then fight for or just discuss it. The forum should be equally open to any view on Bond issues--and that's that.

Hear, hear!

I don't mind a good dust-up. I got started on Bond boards fighting tooth-and-nail for Dalton. We fight because we love the franchise so. That's the part that I feel has gotten a little lost lately.

[krypt]

Indeed, as a Bond fan who supported Dalton in TLD and LTK (and still do) this is also business as usual for me.

I'm excited about CR and looking forward to it. But I'll see the film before I decide how it stacks up to the other Bond films.

[Pussfeller]

We're wiping before we've even taken the crap, folks.

I couldn't have put it better myself.