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Zero Minus Ten


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#1 dinovelvet

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 08:36 PM

Just read Zero Minus Ten, my second Benson novel after The man with the red tattoo (Hey, I'm just reading them in whatever order I can get them!). This one was pretty good, though I liked Tattoo better overall. I can safely say that I do like Benson's style much more than Gardner though, Benson seems much more aware that Bond is also a cinematic character nowadays and not just a literary spy, so we get a lot more action than Gardner's cold war plots.
There are, as has been mentioned in other threads, tons of references to previous Bond books, which is fun for us nerdy types. Benson makes a couple of subtle nods to the movies too (he comments on how Bond had been to casinos in Macau before - TMWTGG movie). The plot is fresh and current yet strangely familiar; this is probably a result of several scenes that are "homages" to Fleming, like the Mah jong game obviously being an updating of the Moonraker bridge game, and a torture scene in which Bond is stripped naked and beaten (although here it just comes off as a little campy, as Bond is essentially being spanked like a naughty boy :D ), and the travelogue segments are spot-on, especially the Australia segment. The first chapter is a riot though, as it is revealed Bond had bought a Jamaican house that formerly belonged to a certain journalist/author? Hmm! :tup:
Some parts were a bit dry though, we get a hell of a lot of background about the history of Hong Kong, which I suppose is necessary for this story, but in some chapters it feels a bit like a lecture. I know people have pointed out that Benson's sex scenes are a bit over the top, but I get the feeling these are the kinds of scenes Fleming would have written if he'd been able to!
Another nice touch is Bond forming a sort-of alliance with a Triad leader, shades of Draco in OHMSS although this guy is a lot nastier. Oh one more thing, I did spot the 'twist' straight away though, I knew Guy Thackeray was not really killed in his car, since Benson had already pointed out numerous times that he was a magician and a master of sleight of hand. Still, a minor quibble, overall this was a pretty good yarn and I looked forward to reading more Benson. I wished he had written 14 books and Gardner only six!

#2 Loomis

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 08:52 PM

Good post. "Zero Minus Ten", while not a perfect book (it does have flaws, and they're glaring), is my favourite of the Bensons, and my favourite continuation novel along with "Colonel Sun".

#3 dinovelvet

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 09:12 PM

Good post. "Zero Minus Ten", while not a perfect book (it does have flaws, and they're glaring), is my favourite of the Bensons, and my favourite continuation novel along with "Colonel Sun".


What do you think the glaring flaws are, Loomis? Just curious. Something else I forgot to mention, I didn't like that whole Triad ceremony bit, it went on for far too long and I don't think it really added anything to the plot. Maybe its good for a glimpse into a whole other culture, but a couple of pages could have sufficed, not a whole chapter!

#4 Lazenby880

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 09:21 PM

Good post. "Zero Minus Ten", while not a perfect book (it does have flaws, and they're glaring), is my favourite of the Bensons, and my favourite continuation novel along with "Colonel Sun".

If I understand this correctly, are you suggesting that ZERO MINUS TEN is better than most of Fleming's work?

I ask as I recall you regarding only YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE as being a better novel than COLONEL SUN, and in your post it seems to infer that you consider Benson's novel as on a par with Amis'. If so, does this not mean that you consider Benson to be Fleming's superior?

#5 Loomis

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 10:01 PM

What do you think the glaring flaws are, Loomis? Just curious.


The flaws? Well, bluntly, some pisspoor writing in places. It's a bit rough around the edges, so to speak, but overall a blast.


Good post. "Zero Minus Ten", while not a perfect book (it does have flaws, and they're glaring), is my favourite of the Bensons, and my favourite continuation novel along with "Colonel Sun".

If I understand this correctly, are you suggesting that ZERO MINUS TEN is better than most of Fleming's work?

I ask as I recall you regarding only YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE as being a better novel than COLONEL SUN, and in your post it seems to infer that you consider Benson's novel as on a par with Amis'. If so, does this not mean that you consider Benson to be Fleming's superior?


Benson Fleming's superior? No. I wrote "my favourite continuation novel". :tup: Although, yes, I do prefer "Zero Minus Ten" to some of the Flemings. Note "favourite" and "prefer", though, rather than "better than Fleming" or "the best". I don't consider Benson a better writer than Fleming, although if pushed I'd say that, yes, ZMT is indeed a better novel than some of the Flemings.

#6 Lazenby880

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 10:12 PM

Benson Fleming's superior? No. I wrote "my favourite continuation novel". :tup: Although, yes, I do prefer "Zero Minus Ten" to some of the Flemings. Note "favourite" and "prefer", though, rather than "better than Fleming" or "the best". I don't consider Benson a better writer than Fleming, although if pushed I'd say that, yes, ZMT is indeed a better novel than some of the Flemings.

Indeed, however I just took from your previous post that if ZERO MINUS TEN is as good as COLONEL SUN, and you regard COLONEL SUN to be superior to most of Fleming's Bond novels with one exception (which I seem to remember you saying, could be wrong though), then it follows that you'd consider ZERO MINUS TEN to be a better book than the Flemings bar YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE. :D Perhaps I am thinking too much...

Personally, I would consider anything I have read by Benson so inferior to anything by Fleming that they are barely worth comparing. And ZERO MINUS TEN is a mess, in my opinion, and a far, far worse novel than any of Fleming's output (or COLONEL SUN, or in fact any of the Gardners that I have read).

Edited by Lazenby880, 14 February 2006 - 10:13 PM.


#7 Loomis

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 10:19 PM


Benson Fleming's superior? No. I wrote "my favourite continuation novel". :tup: Although, yes, I do prefer "Zero Minus Ten" to some of the Flemings. Note "favourite" and "prefer", though, rather than "better than Fleming" or "the best". I don't consider Benson a better writer than Fleming, although if pushed I'd say that, yes, ZMT is indeed a better novel than some of the Flemings.

Indeed, however I just took from your previous post that if ZERO MINUS TEN is as good as COLONEL SUN, and you regard COLONEL SUN to be superior to most of Fleming's Bond novels with one exception (which I seem to remember you saying, could be wrong though), then it follows that you'd consider ZERO MINUS TEN to be a better book than the Flemings bar YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE. :D Perhaps I am thinking too much...


No, no, fair enough, Laz. I do see what you mean. :D

"Zero Minus Ten" as good as "Colonel Sun"? Well.... I'm probably conflating "favourite" with "best". I mean, I much prefer THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN to ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, although I'd concede that OHMSS is the "better" film. See what I mean? Obviously, Benson isn't as good a writer as Fleming or Amis.

Why do I like ZMT so much? Well, from an old post of mine:

Given the subject matter (Hong Kong and its Handover) and the skill with which Benson treats it, I consider "Zero Minus Ten" one of the most thought-provoking and poignant Bond novels (the Flemings included). Certainly, there's more of interest plot- and character-wise than is to be found in Gardner's debut, "Licence Renewed", which coincidentally enough also deals with a scheme to create nuclear carnage. More of the spirit of Fleming, too (and, no, I'm not just referring to the "fanboyish" in-jokes for which Benson is often slated).

Benson's research into and descriptions of Hong Kong and southern China are genuinely impressive. I've read the book twice, and the only false note I could find was the misspelling of a street name, or something like that; otherwise, the history, the culture, the ambiance, the political mood(s) around the time of the Handover.... well, it's all there. A bit of a cliche, this, but Benson succeeds spectacularly in making Hong Kong into a character, and a character to care about.... to the point where the novel's closing lines pack a tremendous emotional wallop.

Bond's journey into the People's Republic on the Kowloon-Guangzhou Express ("Day Trip to China") is a wonderful piece of Flemingian travelogue, conjuring not only the excitement of "the exotic", but displaying a terrific eye for authentic detail. The subsequent chapter, "Agony and Anger", contains a horrifying torture sequence worthy of Fleming (or Amis.... or Lindsay Anderson's IF....):

Bond turned his head to the left and spat, 'Please ... sir. May ... I have ... another, you ... bloody ... bastard ...?'

Apart from which verisimilitude and unpleasantness, ZMT is a rollicking good yarn (and extremely filmic). The Bond girl, Sunni, is a far more developed and interesting character than may be apparent on first reading, while there's a surprising amount of humour (that works pretty well).

Is it a perfect book? No, not at all. There's a lot of what can only be described as "very sloppy writing" (I'm talking about a lack of elegant prose, and the occasional true howler in the use of the English language; Benson's research, as stated above, is spot-on, while characterisation is, generally speaking, good, and the story is more than sufficiently interesting and well-told to keep one turning the pages). If there weren't so many good things about ZMT, I wouldn't care - but there are, and those good things make me wish that Benson had had a better editor, more time to hone and polish his manuscript, etc. It's something I feel all the time when reading his novels. He has imagination and talent, but, bluntly, needed more help while writing the Bonds than he evidently received.

All in all, though, perhaps the second best continuation novel I've read (after "Colonel Sun").

I wonder, was 1997 the only year in which we had a Bond novel and a Bond film with so many similarities (Chinese Bond girl, European tycoon with a background in Asia as the villain, locations in the Far East, etc.)? I think I give ZMT extra points for being considerably less inane than TOMORROW NEVER DIES and telling a much more interesting story. Given that Benson wrote the TND novelization, I reckon he must at times have had the feeling of writing the same book twice!

#8 Lazenby880

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 10:56 PM

"Zero Minus Ten" as good as "Colonel Sun"? Well.... I'm probably conflating "favourite" with "best". I mean, I much prefer THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN to ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, although I'd concede that OHMSS is the "better" film. See what I mean? Obviously, Benson isn't as good a writer as Fleming or Amis.

Why do I like ZMT so much? Well, from an old post of mine:

Given the subject matter (Hong Kong and its Handover) and the skill with which Benson treats it, I consider "Zero Minus Ten" one of the most thought-provoking and poignant Bond novels (the Flemings included). Certainly, there's more of interest plot- and character-wise than is to be found in Gardner's debut, "Licence Renewed", which coincidentally enough also deals with a scheme to create nuclear carnage. More of the spirit of Fleming, too (and, no, I'm not just referring to the "fanboyish" in-jokes for which Benson is often slated).

Benson's research into and descriptions of Hong Kong and southern China are genuinely impressive. I've read the book twice, and the only false note I could find was the misspelling of a street name, or something like that; otherwise, the history, the culture, the ambiance, the political mood(s) around the time of the Handover.... well, it's all there. A bit of a cliche, this, but Benson succeeds spectacularly in making Hong Kong into a character, and a character to care about.... to the point where the novel's closing lines pack a tremendous emotional wallop.

Bond's journey into the People's Republic on the Kowloon-Guangzhou Express ("Day Trip to China") is a wonderful piece of Flemingian travelogue, conjuring not only the excitement of "the exotic", but displaying a terrific eye for authentic detail. The subsequent chapter, "Agony and Anger", contains a horrifying torture sequence worthy of Fleming (or Amis.... or Lindsay Anderson's IF....):

Bond turned his head to the left and spat, 'Please ... sir. May ... I have ... another, you ... bloody ... bastard ...?'

Apart from which verisimilitude and unpleasantness, ZMT is a rollicking good yarn (and extremely filmic). The Bond girl, Sunni, is a far more developed and interesting character than may be apparent on first reading, while there's a surprising amount of humour (that works pretty well).

Is it a perfect book? No, not at all. There's a lot of what can only be described as "very sloppy writing" (I'm talking about a lack of elegant prose, and the occasional true howler in the use of the English language; Benson's research, as stated above, is spot-on, while characterisation is, generally speaking, good, and the story is more than sufficiently interesting and well-told to keep one turning the pages). If there weren't so many good things about ZMT, I wouldn't care - but there are, and those good things make me wish that Benson had had a better editor, more time to hone and polish his manuscript, etc. It's something I feel all the time when reading his novels. He has imagination and talent, but, bluntly, needed more help while writing the Bonds than he evidently received.

All in all, though, perhaps the second best continuation novel I've read (after "Colonel Sun").

I wonder, was 1997 the only year in which we had a Bond novel and a Bond film with so many similarities (Chinese Bond girl, European tycoon with a background in Asia as the villain, locations in the Far East, etc.)? I think I give ZMT extra points for being considerably less inane than TOMORROW NEVER DIES and telling a much more interesting story. Given that Benson wrote the TND novelization, I reckon he must at times have had the feeling of writing the same book twice!

I do sort of see where you are coming from, in that you do concede that Fleming was a better writer (in the technical sense) but that you enjoy Benson more. I think that is what you mean anyhoo. :tup:

I find the reasoning for your positive view of ZERO MINUS TEN very interesting indeed. The subject matter of Hong Kong is a good starting point and there was a lot of potential there, but what is so unsatisfying about the novel is that the potential is wholly squandered. Yes, Benson's research is evidently superb, and when reading his work one really does get the sense that he knows what he is talking about regarding locations and the like. A good example is the mah jong game. On reading it I really believed that Benson knew about it, so proficiently did he write about it. But it just went on and on. And on. And with little purpose. So Thackaray cheats. Did we really need all that depth of description spanning two or three chapters, though?

The mah jong game is emblematic of one of the primary overall problems; the extent of padding. Things go off on a tangent and wander away, after which we eventually return to the story. During the wandering however, I found it very difficult not to get bored and pretty lost. Much of it seemed pointless. While there is nothing wrong with fleshing out a story with travelogue or indeed going off on a tangent, in Fleming this added something of note. In ZERO MINUS TEN it actually feels like just padding.

And then there was the prose, and my Lord some of it was utter drivel. Absolutely devoid of any sort of literary finesse, the result is an entirely pedestrian excursion. So basic (and, frankly, awful) is the writing that he cannot pull off the travelogue or the Triad ceremony or the torture scene or the mah jong game, or indeed the pretty dire sex scenes. Not only was it explicit, it was mechanical. Fleming's writing of sex was erotic, Benson reads like a manual. Moreover, I consider its 'filminess' to be another one of its downfalls, not one of the strengths. The extensive use of dialogue is intended to mask the deficiency of the prose, and the factg that ZERO MINUS TEN reads like a film leads one to wonder what was the point in writing the story as a book in the first place.

Overall, it plods along obtusely and slowly. The prose is on a level comparable to what most people could produce. No flair exists whatsoever. I found it boring, filled with unnecessary fanboy references and unconvincing characters. Strangely, it also has a sort of robotic feel, as if it was written by a committee (in fact, it may very well have been). Throughout I got the feeling of 'Insert travelogue here' and 'Obligatory Fleming reference follows'. That is not enjoyable to read. None of it was. And what could have been an interesting story around the Hong Kong handover turns out to be an irritatingly tedious piece of work.

Believe me, I did not pick up the book having already decided it was going to be a load of claptrap, I genuinely wanted to enjoy it. I hoped that I would be able to defend Benson's work as I am able to defend much of Gardner's, sadly I came away wholly in concurrence with the received wisdom regarding the Benson era.

Edited by Lazenby880, 14 February 2006 - 10:58 PM.


#9 Jim

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:10 AM

Same here.

Here, in fact: http://commanderbond...es/2441-1.shtml

#10 Loomis

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:00 PM

Yes, Benson's research is evidently superb, and when reading his work one really does get the sense that he knows what he is talking about regarding locations and the like. A good example is the mah jong game. On reading it I really believed that Benson knew about it, so proficiently did he write about it. But it just went on and on. And on. And with little purpose. So Thackaray cheats. Did we really need all that depth of description spanning two or three chapters, though?


Okay, but couldn't we make the same criticism of the game between Bond and Drax in "Moonraker"?

I came away wholly in concurrence with the received wisdom regarding the Benson era.


I like about half Benson's output, and loathe the other half. For me, he seems to have just two settings: Good, and Utterly Horrible, with nothing in between. For instance, "High Time to Kill" is an absolutely worthless book, IMO, just dreadful. "Zero Minus Ten" is his best (I know that few will agree with me on that, though). I also like "The Man With the Red Tattoo", and, to a lesser extent, "Never Dream of Dying". The rest of his stuff? Forget it.

As for Gardner, I don't really care for his work at all, but then I've only read a couple of his Bonds ("Licence Renewed", "For Special Services" and "Icebreaker") and skimmed through a couple of others, not including the likes of "Nobody Lives Forever", which I understand are quite good.

#11 marktmurphy

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:10 PM

[Yes, Benson's research is evidently superb, and when reading his work one really does get the sense that he knows what he is talking about regarding locations and the like. A good example is the mah jong game. On reading it I really believed that Benson knew about it, so proficiently did he write about it. But it just went on and on. And on. And with little purpose. So Thackaray cheats. Did we really need all that depth of description spanning two or three chapters, though?

The mah jong game is emblematic of one of the primary overall problems; the extent of padding. Things go off on a tangent and wander away, after which we eventually return to the story. During the wandering however, I found it very difficult not to get bored and pretty lost. Much of it seemed pointless. While there is nothing wrong with fleshing out a story with travelogue or indeed going off on a tangent, in Fleming this added something of note. In ZERO MINUS TEN it actually feels like just padding.


The worst crime of the mah-jong game I found was that at the time Bond did not know who the main villain of the piece was. And then he has a hugely drawn out, Fleming-sucking 'deadly game' with one of them. Er, he'll be the villain, then. Really, monumentally stupid.
Plus the villain's identity is given away by Benson attempting to drop in important clues without us noticing (Thackeray was a MAGICIAN IN HIS SPARE TIME.... Just before his car exploded, it passed OUT OF SIGHT FOR A FEW SECONDS), but as his prose is so underdeveloped they stick out like a sore thumb. He may as well have written them in capitals.

#12 zencat

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:35 PM

I never thought the mah-jong game felt padded. In fact, I thought this was a highlight of the book, sort of like the Bridge game in MR or the gold game in GF. And I also think Thackeray is a pretty excellent villian. I like the fact that he's an alcoholic. Makes him flawed and frightening in way that felt very fresh to me.

I'm with, dinovelvet. While, overall, I enjoyed TMWTRT more, I really liked ZMT. I remember reading it in '97 and, after the last few Gardner books, really felt Benson gave the lit Bond a new lease on life. Of course, IMO, his book just got better and better.

Is it a better book than Colonel Sun? I don't know, maybe. I'm starting to think Colonel Sun is one of the most overrated of the Bond books.

Which book is next, dinovelvet? :tup:

#13 Harmsway

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:31 PM

As far as Benson goes, I quite enjoyed ZERO MINUS TEN (much for the same reasons as Loomis cited). I also really liked THE MAN WITH THE RED TATTOO and DOUBLESHOT. Haven't yet read NEVER DREAM OF DYING.

THE FACTS OF DEATH and HIGH TIME TO KILL were pretty poor, though. I struggled to get through THE FACTS OF DEATH and when I did, I was relieved that I wouldn't have to read it again.

#14 dinovelvet

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:57 PM

Which book is next, dinovelvet? :tup:


I'm going to alternate between Gardner and Benson for a while, so up next is No Deals,Mr.Bond. I took a crack at it before but only got as far as about chapter six before losing patience with it!

#15 Double-Oh Agent

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:07 PM

I too enjoyed Zero Minus Ten. It is my second favorite of Benson's novels trailing only High Time To Kill. Granted, Benson's prose is a little rough at times, but he does get better as he got more experience and his plots are pretty solid. As for ZMT, I liked his Xu Nan Li, Chang brothers, and T.Y. Woo characters and Guy Thackeray wasn't bad either. In addition the action scenes are well done as is Bond's survival in the Australian Outback. My complaints for the book was the mah jongg game was too drawn out and hard to follow, particularly since I know nothing about the game, and the final battle hurt the Sunni Pei character for me as it seemed out of character and totally implausible. Other than those couple of things, I found ZMT quite enjoyable and a good start for the Benson era.

#16 Jaws0178

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 03:19 PM

I enjoyed "Zero minus Ten". In fact, I am reading it again. I had noticed the Jamaican property bit, the "double-0 test" was very cool, and I noticed that one of the cops was named Gary Mitchell, which being a Star Trek fan, made me laugh. I may not be a great literary reviewer like alot of you, but I know the two Raymond Benson books that I have read (ZMT and HTTK), and I have enjoyed them.

Todd

#17 marmaduke

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 04:18 PM

ZERO MINUS TEN-
I have completed reading my first Raymond Benson Bond novel-Zero Minus 10.
I have to say that having read the majority of posts on forums in this site I approached the task with great trepidation. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised! Benson

#18 Lazenby880

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 12:22 AM

Yes the prose was at times a bit 'dodgy' but I have to say that I found Benson's Bond more close to Fleming's original character than Gardner's. (I have read the first six Gardner's in chronological order.)For example in times of stress Benson's Bond, like Fleming's, pours himself a 'double measure of vodka with ice'. Gardner's on the other hand tends to limit himself to a 'spring water' or 'coffee'. I am not claiming that this makes the Benson Bond 'tougher', just closer to the Fleming original in character.

Agreed, the prose was 'dodgy'.

However I have never heard or seen anyone contend that Mr Benson's Bond was akin in a substantial manner to Mr Fleming's. Not that Gardner's era was close either; but how does simply throwing in little bits like the drinking of vodka with ice make BensonBond especially like FlemingBond? In far more significant ways surely Benson's character has a great deal more in common with the Eon creation of the 1990s (a creation that I am not violently averse to, as some are), and don't the two share far more values and attitudes and characteristics than BensonBond and FlemingBond? The latter two, in fact, are almost as divergent as one could get (in my opinion, of course).

I also found the rather 'sparse' dialogue closer to Fleming's original. I particularly enjoyed Bond's drive across the Australian desert and his 'walkabout' in the outback.
On the evidence of Ten Minutes to Zero I shall certainly be reading all of the Benson output immediately following my completion of the Gardner novels. :tup:

I would query the validity of that comparison as well, although I should point out that the Australian section was the most 'readable' for me.

Good luck to you sir, and Benson's oeuvre does have its fans so you never know, you might enjoy the rest as much as you did ZERO MINUS TEN. :D

Edited by Lazenby880, 14 April 2006 - 12:25 AM.


#19 marmaduke

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 08:32 AM

Thanks Lazanby880, (having bothered to re read my post I detect that my own prose is also

#20 manfromjapan

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 10:44 AM

I just started reading this book and I am finding it an enjoyable book. Fleming wrote b-grade thrillers that just happened to be brilliantly written because of his talent. One might argue they are overwritten for the level of his audience. Kind of like Scorsese directing CAPE FEAR or Ang Lee doing HULK. Benson has never claimed he is Fleming's heir. He is a good writer with a good (great?) knowledge of the universe having fun creating new adventures. Give him a break!! If you read between the lines, one of the reasons he quit was the completely negative, mean spirited fan reaction.

And COLONEL SUN? Give ME a break. Was it fun? No. Too political, over-sexual, tedious for the whole middle section and the torture scene was too much. It goes beyond sadism!!!

#21 Qwerty

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 09:35 PM

And COLONEL SUN? Give ME a break. Was it fun? No. Too political, over-sexual, tedious for the whole middle section and the torture scene was too much. It goes beyond sadism!!!


I strongly encourage you to add your review of Colonel Sun to the : http://debrief.comma...showtopic=26772

#22 manfromjapan

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 02:52 AM

Thanks, but I already did amonth or so ago!!

#23 Qwerty

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 04:11 AM

Ah! So you did! I'll add the book club logo to your sig - must have missed it before.

#24 manfromjapan

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:04 PM

Just got through the mahjong game, and Bond meeting Sunni and the Triad leader. The mahjong game went on a bit, and although described well, my lack of knowledge of card games left me confused! I think Benson describes very well, has obviously researched well, i enjoy it when he gets historical. The references to other Bond lore are fun. The lapdance was perhaps out of place for Bond, and a little risque. But, I like Benson's style. It feels like Fleming's world whilst obviously in tune with the films. he lacks the sweep of Fleming, but I haven't read many authors with such a sweep. I think I am gonna go right through and read all his books in order. Then I have the Woods and the Gardners to read. And the Young Bonds I guess!! Oh, and the Moneypennys!!

paulie.toadfire.com