43 replies to this topic

[enigma662]

The hotel scene that made you think she was sleeping with him to repay some money? Where she was lifeless and bored the whole time? That didn't seem like she was falling in love to me.

[JimmyBond]

But he was persistent, if someone is persistent enough it rubs off on you. Bond was persistent and she admired that. Soon that admiration turned into love.

[Santa]

I agree, the montage was unnecessary, it would have taken a lot more than that to convince me Bond fell in love with this woman. After the first 5 movies, and the way Bond is portrayed, what was there to make us think that he would actually fall in love with someone? First of all, it's not his thing, and second, Tracy wasn't even all that special. There's something missing.

I believe Bond is perfectly capable of falling in love when the right person comes along. It's everyone's 'thing', just not with any old person. And I think Diana Rigg was fairly special. I agree with Jimmy, there was that spark between them and that's good enough for me. , I've been married on less than that...

[Dr. Noah]

So I suppose I'm the only one that likes the montage...or feels Bond and Tracy seem to fall in love naturally? Sure it happens pretty quickly, but I think the spark was there when Bond first saves her, then when they make love at the hotel. Just because they don't say they're in love doesnt mean they're not.

If they actually added another half hour to the film to develop the relationship, everybody here would've hated it. It's an adventure film. They had to get on with catching Blofeld!

There's an interesting article on this just posted here, which reminds us that Bond ISN'T in love with Tracy yet. She says as much to her father in the car during the next sequence. Bond is about to travel to the Piz Gloria and nail two or three more women! He doesn't fall in love until after she's saved his life -- after the ski chase/car chase.

As for Connery, he judges everything by how he would play it. He liked Lazenby because Lazenby was trying to play HIM. He was always very condescending about Moore's approach ("he came in through the humor door"), and he blasted Dalton for basically not interpreting the character the same way as him.

It kind of shows you why he never became a director: He wants everybody to act like him.

[JimmyBond]

I didnt realize he felt that way about the others. Are there any links where I can read those interviews?

[ChickenStu]

Everybody's entitled to thier opinion man. What surprises me about this movie, it's kind of like the "Marmite" of James Bond movies. You either love it or hate it. I for one could live of marmite for the rest of my life!

[Dr. Noah]

I didnt realize he felt that way about the others. Are there any links where I can read those interviews?

I'd have to look around for the Moore quote. There were a lot of them the year that NSNA premiered after Octopussy. On Dalton (from the IMDB quote page):

"I thought Pierce Brosnan was a good choice. I liked GoldenEye. Timothy Dalton never got a handle on the role. He took it seriously in the wrong way. The person who plays Bond has to be dangerous. If there isn't a sense of threat, you can't be cool."

Basically, he liked Brosnan because he was imitating Connery. Meanwhile, Dalton wasn't trying for "cool," he was playing the Bond of the books, not Connery:

http://www.geocities...ng/Bond_Eng.htm

"He has a thing Fleming called acidity, which is an odd word and I don't know what it meant. But I think it means revulsion or distaste for your work. The man is a paradox. He's a contradiction. In the short story The Living Daylights

Edited by Dr. Noah, 19 March 2006 - 02:44 AM.

[Publius]

I didnt realize he felt that way about the others. Are there any links where I can read those interviews?

I'd have to look around for the Moore quote. There were a lot of them the year that NSNA premiered after Octopussy. On Dalton (from the IMDB quote page):

"I thought Pierce Brosnan was a good choice. I liked GoldenEye. Timothy Dalton never got a handle on the role. He took it seriously in the wrong way. The person who plays Bond has to be dangerous. If there isn't a sense of threat, you can't be cool."

Brosnan more dangerous than Dalton? And GE Brosnan at that?

I love Sir Sean. In my book, he's a damn close #2 to Dalton's Bond. But sometimes he can be quite annoying, whether it be his incessant crying to get out of and then back into the role of Bond, or when he complains that, to put it simply, nobody does it better than him.

Sometimes I think if I were to rank Bonds based on their public demeanor, I'd exclusively be a Dalton and Moore Bond fan...

[K1Bond007]

Sometimes I think if I were to rank Bonds based on their public demeanor, I'd exclusively be a Dalton and Moore Bond fan...

I think I agree here. I'm not a Roger Moore fan as far as a comparison goes to the rest of 'the Bonds', but he's #1 in my book as far as demeanor and ... what they do, or rather have done, goes. I really respect Moore far more than all the others.

[Santa]

That's how I feel, the man is a gent. It's always hard to slag off Connery amongst Bond fans but he always disappoints me by seeming to be a bit of a wanker. I'm eager to have my mind changed on this, before everyone starts slating me, but every time I give him the benefit of the doubt he lets me down again. Roger's Bond may have been a bit...remedial(?), but Rog himself should be King of England.

[icecold]

So I suppose I'm the only one that likes the montage...or feels Bond and Tracy seem to fall in love naturally? Sure it happens pretty quickly, but I think the spark was there when Bond first saves her, then when they make love at the hotel. Just because they don't say they're in love doesnt mean they're not.

I dont get the feeling bond is falling in love with her during that sequence, and really when you think about it he's probably not, he's simply fulfilling his part of the agreement with Draco...the man's a deep cover secret agent who posesses an amazing way with the ladies...he's just doing his job and getting some nookie out of it as well. It's not until she rescues him that he realizes he's in love with this woman, IMHO at least.

Edited by icecold, 20 March 2006 - 06:08 AM.

[JimmyBond]

Well, I agree, Bond gradually falls in love with her over the course of the film. And as you say, he doesnt really fall in love until she rescues him. But the spark is there earlier in the film, especially in the montage (I doubt Bond shows just anyone rings ).

[blackjack60]

When Bond shows up at Draco's birthday party, it's to fulfill his agreement with Draco. He'll wine and dine Tracy, who's intrigued him already, and in return Draco will tell him where Blofeld's hiding.
Tracy throws a monkey-wrench into their plans. She resents being part of a transaction between men, and she trashes their agreement by forcing her father to reveal Blofled's position, and then leaves, choking back tears. Why does she leave so overcome? Because she's hurt that Bond was just there to get information, and so she flees. And by leaving she knows she'll force Bond's hand. She refuses to be seen as simply part of a transaction, rather than a human being--an emotionally fragile one. Already we have a more emotionally complex Bond girl than any previously seen before (or since) in the series.

Bond now must prove himself to her, rather than the other way around. He has the information he needs, and could simply leave her. Instead he proves himself by seeking out Tracy, turning her towards him, wiping the tears from her eyes, and telling her that he wants to be with her. Cue the montage.
The montage is not there to show Bond falling in love with Tracy. It's there to show in shorthand that Bond and Tracy have decided to see more of each other and are bonding. The real emotional lynchpin is in the birthday scene--the montage is there to accentuate it and fulfill its promise. It's seeing that Tracy is attracted enough to Bond to be hurt when it seems he's feigning interest, and seeing that Bond feels the need to prove himself to her, that creates the conditions for their love to begin, and the montage is simply showing us that that their interest was maintained and prolonged.

As for what Sean Connery thinks...who cares? We value him as an actor, not as a film critic. If his taste in directors and scripts is so refined, why has he starred in so many god-awful movies? Why is it that when tried taking control of a production, the result was The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? I think Connery is the best Bond, but his opinions on aesthetics interest me no more than his opinions on politics.

[Bon-san]

When Bond shows up at Draco's birthday party, it's to fulfill his agreement with Draco. He'll wine and dine Tracy, who's intrigued him already, and in return Draco will tell him where Blofeld's hiding.
Tracy throws a monkey-wrench into their plans. She resents being part of a transaction between men, and she trashes their agreement by forcing her father to reveal Blofled's position, and then leaves, choking back tears. Why does she leave so overcome? Because she's hurt that Bond was just there to get information, and so she flees. And by leaving she knows she'll force Bond's hand. She refuses to be seen as simply part of a transaction, rather than a human being--an emotionally fragile one. Already we have a more emotionally complex Bond girl than any previously seen before (or since) in the series.

Bond now must prove himself to her, rather than the other way around. He has the information he needs, and could simply leave her. Instead he proves himself by seeking out Tracy, turning her towards him, wiping the tears from her eyes, and telling her that he wants to be with her. Cue the montage.
The montage is not there to show Bond falling in love with Tracy. It's there to show in shorthand that Bond and Tracy have decided to see more of each other and are bonding. The real emotional lynchpin is in the birthday scene--the montage is there to accentuate it and fulfill its promise. It's seeing that Tracy is attracted enough to Bond to be hurt when it seems he's feigning interest, and seeing that Bond feels the need to prove himself to her, that creates the conditions for their love to begin, and the montage is simply showing us that that their interest was maintained and prolonged.

Bravo. Excellent.