14 replies to this topic

[General Koskov]

We are to assume in the end of YOLT that Bond has forgotten nearly exerything about his life. This would include the very reason why he was in the fishing village: Tracy's death. Now the Russians seem to have re-invigorated his memory in TMWTGG to a point, but would they have known Blofeld or anything about Tracy?

Then Sir James Molony un-brainwashed him and Bond seems almost like the old guy we all know, except there is no mention of Tracy. Did Fleming want to insinuate that no one had reminded Bond of Tracy so that he would continue as a stable operative? Did they remind him he'd avenged he death and therefore he wasn't as 'sad' as before?

In the films he is saddened by the reminder of Tracy, but he never went through the mental states of YOLT and TMWTGG. Prehaps if Fleming wrote another book this would have been answered. Any ideas?

[Mister Asterix]

I think the General was asking was more of what Fleming's meant for Bond's thoughts of Tracy. So in that case none of the other books matter.

I don't think Fleming had meant to have had Bond forget Tracy or have the memory of her not come back after his amneisia. I have always felt that Bond had surpressed his thoughts of Tracy in The Man With The Golden Gun and evidence of this was the extra feeling of melencholy in Bond's character during the book. The books' Bond, much like the films', doesn't talk about personal things very much. And he does not think of them much either.

[RossMan]

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. In practically all of Gardner's books, he has Bond frequently thinking of Tracy, and in For Special Services his revenge on Blofeld, which means he hasn't forgotten about her. But there are a few people who don't like to count Gardner and Benson's stuff as a part of the literary Bond series.

[Icephoenix]

This is a bloody good question! But I agree with Mr *,
Bond doesn

[Dustin]

It seems some of this thread was lost during various moves and updates. And what's left is a strangely chopped affair, seemingly out of order, too. But the initial question in my view is quite intriguing: Could the opportunity of having Bond 'deprogrammed' at The Park not have been used to improve his mental makeup?

In TMWTGG we're told Bond undergoes a harsh treatment of electro-shock therapy - which would not have been allowed in this form in the USA - and his old hatred for the KGB and its ways was restored. Reading this I used to wonder how Bond would have really reacted to having his memory restored, with all the pain and guilt and emotional turmoil that entails. Would he be grateful having his personal demons back? Would he not rather wait for an opportunity to strangle the bastard Molony?

Of course, the mind doesn't work in such a clearly defined style as to remove and restore particular memories at will, and I don't think Fleming ever intended to tackle the theme deeper either. Yet it is interesting that the Bond of TMWTGG's first two chapters in 'KGB-mode' apparently doesn't know anything about his own former life beyond some basics. He was told to take a room at the Ritz because that was what the Russian apparat supposed was Western decadence and what Bond's lifestyle would dictate; same with the new Burberry coat, a brand Bond wasn't seen in before. When Bond finally meets M the old man gets decidedly angry at Bond for admitting to have told everything he could to the KGB interrogators. Which wasn't anything much, because Bond really had lost most of the relevant memory. *

These first two chapters give the impression the KGB got its hands on Bond, but could not restore his memory. And they would have tried, if only to learn what dish the Secret Service canteen offered on Wednesdays. But the useful stuff Bond kept in his little grey cells was either already known to them or not useful at all. The KGB might have arranged for an executive course in Baccarat for their top brass, under Bond's supervision. Other than that Bond must have been a dud to them.

So they effectively sent a hypnotised zombie back to London to eliminate one of their major targets in the enemy's camp, M himself. But their killer automaton botched the job and immediately afterwards lost consciousness, without apparent outside interference. Another instruction given to Bond's hypnosis?

The next time we see Bond in the book he's just buying a Daily Gleaner, a favourite newspaper of his because of their unorthodox makeup and bizarre choice of news. He enjoys reading the paper and is genuinely delighted about an odd and rather obscure piece, announcing the auction of an old estate on the island, an information the significance of which he cannot be aware of as yet. His elated mood stems exclusively from the air of sentimental memories this piece evokes in him, mainly of Honeychile Rider and the adventure regarding Doctor No.

"In the last analysis, life wasn't all that dismal. One must forget the bad and remember the good."

This almost could be the motto of the whole of TMWTGG. Bond is supposed to have his memory back - at least to a degree necessary for working, i.e. shooting and running like hell to the next British embassy. But Tracy and Blofeld both seem to be missing from his recollections. According to a timeline in Griswold's ANNOTATED JAMES BOND Bond would have started his quest for Scaramanga during the last days of December, a time that would hold a definite significance for Bond after the events of OHMSS. None of it is ever mentioned in TMWTGG. It's as if Tracy, Blofeld and the entire SPECTRE affair never had happened.

"One must forget the bad and remember the good."

I'm not sure any more Molony really cured Bond's amnesia. Not entirely...






Astonishing detail: Bond is asked about Maria Freudenstadt, a double for the KGB working at Regent's Park headquarters. Now - is having a field agent in-the-know about an uncovered KGB double agent really a good idea? Somebody who is likely to face the opposition and must be regarded as somewhat expendable? In the next sentence we learn that she died and that Bond thought she wouldn't last long. But apparently he didn't tell the KGB interrogators about her. Or he's forgotten about it.

[glidrose]

Astonishing detail: Bond is asked about Maria Freudenstadt, a double for the KGB working at Regent's Park headquarters. Now - is having a field agent in-the-know about an uncovered KGB double agent really a good idea? Somebody who is likely to face the opposition and must be regarded as somewhat expendable? In the next sentence we learn that she died and that Bond thought she wouldn't last long. But apparently he didn't tell the KGB interrogators about her. Or he's forgotten about it.

But it was Bond who nabbed her in The Property of a Lady, although her surname was slightly different.

[AMC Hornet]

If Fleming had done his own polishing, he might have mentioned something about Tracy. As it was Kingsley Amis didn't meddle much with Bond's backstory, he just got on with fleshing out the descriptions and narrative.

Now I'll have to read Colonel Sun again to refresh myself with whether Amis went on to mention her in his own work.

[glidrose]

If Fleming had done his own polishing, he might have mentioned something about Tracy. As it was Kingsley Amis didn't meddle much with Bond's backstory, he just got on with fleshing out the descriptions and narrative.

Amis didn't polish TMWTGG. That rumor got debunked long ago. John Cork at the IFF found Fleming's original typescript with, I believe, Fleming's own handwritten emendations.

Now I'll have to read Colonel Sun again to refresh myself with whether Amis went on to mention her in his own work.

He doesn't.

This is all we get:

"It was certainly a far more sensible and grown-up routine than the round of gin and tranquillizers he had been trapped in only a couple of years back, before his nightmare odyssey through Japan and the USSR. He should be patting himself on the back for having come through that sticky patch."

Edited by glidrose, 29 May 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[perdogg]

Astonishing detail: Bond is asked about Maria Freudenstadt, a double for the KGB working at Regent's Park headquarters. Now - is having a field agent in-the-know about an uncovered KGB double agent really a good idea? Somebody who is likely to face the opposition and must be regarded as somewhat expendable? In the next sentence we learn that she died and that Bond thought she wouldn't last long. But apparently he didn't tell the KGB interrogators about her. Or he's forgotten about it.

But it was Bond who nabbed her in The Property of a Lady, although her surname was slightly different.

You also have to remember, the events of The Property of a Lady take place in 1961. We know that because in the story it states that the auction was to take place on Tuesday June 20th. The only logical year would be 1961 or about 4 years earlier.

[Jim]

I always took it to be that Bond is re-brainwashed by his own friendly chums and the benevolent Moloney and is reconditioned into the blunt instrument. Fun speculation would have been that he found this out in due course, that "they" had removed memories of his wife in order to make him a more effective slaughterer.

(Yes, I know it's more than a little Jason Bourne)

Alternatively it's an unfinished book.

[Dustin]

Astonishing detail: Bond is asked about Maria Freudenstadt, a double for the KGB working at Regent's Park headquarters. Now - is having a field agent in-the-know about an uncovered KGB double agent really a good idea? Somebody who is likely to face the opposition and must be regarded as somewhat expendable? In the next sentence we learn that she died and that Bond thought she wouldn't last long. But apparently he didn't tell the KGB interrogators about her. Or he's forgotten about it.

But it was Bond who nabbed her in The Property of a Lady, although her surname was slightly different.

I suppose the background of The Property of a Lady as a commissioned work was what lead Fleming to a case of 'write what you know' - here using Sotheby's as backdrop for the major payoff of a valued double agent. But TPOAL isn't about Bond catching Freudenstein/Freudenstadt, it's about identifying and exposing the current KGB resident director and pronouncing him persona non grata on grounds of espionage. Bond already is informed about Freudenstein's/Freudenstadt's status as a double agent. As I said, it's calling for trouble having such information given to a field agent, who could at any given time fall into the hands of the enemy. One might assume Bond (and other members of the staff???) was briefed about her in order to prevent 'fraternisation' outside the office hours.

But the real background is probably just that such and other sensitive material was what Fleming was confronted with on his desk on a daily basis; compare here the files 'Mainline: A well-established Escape Route from East to West', 'Route five to Pekin' and 'Vladivostock: A photographic Reconnaissance by US Thunderjet', all from MR. All of which is highly sensitive material that would not by any means end up on the desk of somebody risking to get caught by the opposition. Fleming must have seen tons of similar stuff, but he was never supposed to see active duty at the front. On the other hand he could not entirely withstand the temptation of hinting at the secrets he was trusted with during the war, so he let Bond - and by proxy us - in on the more interesting ones. He was likely also aware how far counter-intelligence had penetrated the German Abwehr operations on the British Isles and how the MI5 gradually uncovered all the pieces of the German network. The whole plot of TPOAL is really just about observing a - more complicated than necessary - payoff. Interestingly, in TMWTGG Bond is reluctant to talk about the matter of Freudenstadt, claiming he'd do nobody a favour if he went into any more detail.

By the way, identifying Piotr Malinovski as current KGB resident would hardly result in showing him the door. The replacement would have to be exposed in another time-consuming and tedious operation, so the gain would be null.

I always took it to be that Bond is re-brainwashed by his own friendly chums and the benevolent Moloney and is reconditioned into the blunt instrument. Fun speculation would have been that he found this out in due course, that "they" had removed memories of his wife in order to make him a more effective slaughterer.

(Yes, I know it's more than a little Jason Bourne)

Alternatively it's an unfinished book.

That would have been a most interesting turn of events. But probably also way ahead of its time and hardly digestible for the ordinary readership of those days.

However, I suspect the matter was simply that by then Fleming had forgotten about Tracy. In one of his later interviews he stated he had written off Tracy the moment he decided Bond should marry her. If we look closer at the relationship between the two it's obvious and important that Bond cares a lot for the girl. But the final decision to marry her comes rather out of the blue, almost as a sudden irrational act. Bond just realises he has had a lot of fun with the girl in bed, and she proved useful in a tight spot. They are both lonely people without anybody to care for - let's marry then! That's would be quite a sudden decision even for a character much younger and more impulsive than Bond. If the book had been set in Las Vegas Bond might have married Tracy right there and then.

Truth be told, Bond cannot really be said to be a particularly responsible or considerate character when it comes to marriage. The only other occasion he seriously considers to marry (that we are told of, that is) is towards the end of CR. Interestingly here Bond's original intentions had just been to test his equipment and work off some piled up steam with Vesper. He coldly intended to scrap her, should she give him a hard time afterwards. Given these rather matter-of-factly considerations the ensuing act must have had above-average quality, for on the next dawn Bond suddenly reads 'Marry Her!' in the blue skies above the French coast.

We note that in both cases Bond hasn't spent more than a mere few waking hours in the company of both women. We note both are deeply troubled characters with suicidal tendencies; both are widows, Vesper figuratively, Tracy for real. Both had to deal with a tragic loss, Vesper her lover, Tracy her child. And both are apparently wiped from Bond's life by acts of violence. But where Bond forces himself to forget about Vesper (to no avail, he's visiting her grave every September) he's granted the grace of oblivion after having avenged Tracy. Remains the fact that Bond just isn't the type to marry.

Fleming supposedly was often asked what happened to Bond's girls from the previous book and he must have been sick of just replying 'They were from the previous book, what of it?'. He also realised how much more potential those beauties could have if they had an actual meaning for Bond. Note here the development from standard type I (not particularly interesting or important beyond the initial adventure: Solitaire, Gala, Tatjana) to standard type II (having an actual character and/or actual importance beyond the initial adventure: Vesper, Vivienne Michel, Tracy, Kissy Suzuki) and back to type I (Mary Goodnight).[Tiffany Case somehow falls between the two categories - forgettable character that is still mentioned in the next novel, with some significance even - so we shall forget her for the sake of my argument]

The important girls do have a lot more potential, but are much more difficult to write off. Suicides, murders, amnesia, even relocation half a world away - all that is employed to get them out of the picture within the limits of the reader's credulity. But the simple truth is, the same view will always bore Bond.

Now, where was my point? Must have lost that somewhere....

[Dustin]

One other thing I just remembered I wanted to address in my first post in this thread but forgot about:


'After the pleasant, quiet-spoken analyst had explained to him what had been done to him in Russia, and after he had passed through the mental agony of knowing what he had nearly done to M, the old fierce hatred of the KGB and all its works had been reborn in him and, six weeks after he had entered The Park, all he wanted was to get back at the people who had invaded his brain for their own murderous purposes.'

What strikes me as odd here is, Bond didn't before give the impression of feeling particularly emotional about the KGB. He's surely not a friend of them or sympathises with their cause. But overall throughout the books he seems to regard them with a certain professional distance and often admires the ingenuity of their schemes.* Bond hardly ever displays hate or emotional agitation towards the opposition in general. Confronted with the sigle specimen he can work himself into a blood frenzy, that's true, as Goldfinger could attest to. If he still could, that is. But overall Bond retains a markedly relaxed composure and an attitude of cool superiority. His 'old fierce hatred' seems to be a relatively new acquisition in this context.

Granted, there is this part from the very first book, coming after Bond had been alarmed to Vesper's suicide and had read her confession:

'His fingernails dug into the palms of his hands, and his body sweated with shame.

Well, it was not too late. Here was a target for him, right to hand. He would take on SMERSH and hunt it down. Without SMERSH, without this cold weapon of death and revenge, the M.W.D. [former name of the KGB] would be just another bunch of civil servant spies, no better and no worse than any of the western services.

SMERSH was the spur. Be faithful, spy well, or you die. Inevitably and without any question, you will be hunted down and killed.

It was the same with the whole Russian machine. Fear was the impulse. For them it was always safer to advance than to retreat. Advance against the enemy, and the bullet might miss you. Retreat, evade, betray, and the bullet would never miss.

But now he would attack the arm that held the whip and the gun. The business of espionage could be left to the white-collar boys. They could spy and catch the spies. He would go after the threat behind the spies, the threat that made them spy.'

This is an exceptional and remarkably emotional passage in the canon, one that in this form doesn't reappear again. It could be argued to hold more than a little hatred in the subtext. And yet it is a passage that just saw Bond over the dead body of the woman he was planning to marry and learning about her treason. Considering this it's still quite tame and shows no apparent lack of self-control. If anything Bond maybe seems too controlled under the circumstances. A bit of shameful sweat (I never sweated of shame; do people really do that???) and a single 'bitch' is hardly a display of hatred and outrage here.

So is this 'old, fierce hatred' perhaps a sign for personality treatment aimed to improve Bond's usefulness?**

*Although it takes him only a few days to uncover for example Mr BIG's treasure scheme or Goldfinger's financial pipeline of SMERSH funds, nearly always right at the first try, or to see behind the operation targeted at the SHAPE HQ; the only time Bond is truly fooled by the Russians is the FRWL operation. And even there both M and Bond suspect a trap.

** No, I'm just kidding.

[Revelator]

Giving an answer to the original question of this thread is difficult. My feeling is that even Fleming didn't know what he was after. He obviously wanted to revitalize Bond, but he was far from revitalized himself. His writing schedule had been cut in half and his efforts were demoralized and increasingly feeble. So I wonder if Fleming was sure about how to handle Tracy's memory. As it is, Bond in TMWTGG seems like a robot even after he's back to normal.

Fleming... realised how much more potential those beauties could have if they had an actual meaning for Bond. Note here the development from standard type I (not particularly interesting or important beyond the initial adventure: Solitaire, Gala, Tatjana) to standard type II (having an actual character and/or actual importance beyond the initial adventure: Vesper, Vivienne Michel, Tracy, Kissy Suzuki) and back to type I (Mary Goodnight).[Tiffany Case somehow falls between the two categories - forgettable character that is still mentioned in the next novel, with some significance even - so we shall forget her for the sake of my argument]

This is a good distinction, though I would place Tiffany in the standard type II category. She seems to me the first example of that sort of character and has never struck me as forgettable. She has a wiscracking sense of humor, a troubled personal history, and brings out the best of Bond. In some ways she's a first draft of Tracy, but with more personality. Leaving aside Vivienne (who has the most personality of all because she has an entire book to herself), the only heroines who strike me as having more vivid personalities than Tiffany would be Domino and Kissy (Honey is about equal).

[echo]

Astonishing detail: Bond is asked about Maria Freudenstadt, a double for the KGB working at Regent's Park headquarters. Now - is having a field agent in-the-know about an uncovered KGB double agent really a good idea? Somebody who is likely to face the opposition and must be regarded as somewhat expendable? In the next sentence we learn that she died and that Bond thought she wouldn't last long. But apparently he didn't tell the KGB interrogators about her. Or he's forgotten about it.

You beat me to it. It is possible to extrapolate that if Bond remembers Fraudenstadt, he remembers Tracy as well.

I wonder if we'll see Fraudenstadt in a future movie. When Eon inevitably decides to use The Property of a Lady as a title, I'm sure they'll see if there's anything they can salvage from the story. They could go back and use leftover bits of Octopussy (climbing!) and FAVTAK (motorcycle assassinations!) while they're at it.

Then again, I'm always seeing Fleming in the films where it may not actually exist. I thought the penultimate scene of QoS was basically 007 in New York minus the omelette recipe (which arguably made it into AVTAK).

[perdogg]

Astonishing detail: Bond is asked about Maria Freudenstadt, a double for the KGB working at Regent's Park headquarters. Now - is having a field agent in-the-know about an uncovered KGB double agent really a good idea? Somebody who is likely to face the opposition and must be regarded as somewhat expendable? In the next sentence we learn that she died and that Bond thought she wouldn't last long. But apparently he didn't tell the KGB interrogators about her. Or he's forgotten about it.

You beat me to it. It is possible to extrapolate that if Bond remembers Fraudenstadt, he remembers Tracy as well.

I wonder if we'll see Fraudenstadt in a future movie. When Eon inevitably decides to use The Property of a Lady as a title, I'm sure they'll see if there's anything they can salvage from the story. They could go back and use leftover bits of Octopussy (climbing!) and FAVTAK (motorcycle assassinations!) while they're at it.

Then again, I'm always seeing Fleming in the films where it may not actually exist. I thought the penultimate scene of QoS was basically 007 in New York minus the omelette recipe (which arguably made it into AVTAK).

I agree with what you said about Quantum Of Solace and 007 in New York. I wonder when they are going to use Chapter 1 ("Can I Help") and Chapter 2 ("Attentat") from The Man with The Golden Gun.