17 replies to this topic

[Peter Franks]

Is it true that Texas Hold Em poker is going to take the place of baccarat?

Who on earth plays poker in a tuxedo? It doesn't fit with the story. Poker players dress casual. Some even hide their emotions with hoodies and sunglasses. In the book James and Le Chiffre are showing lots of emotion, sweating, etc A henchman puts a gun in Bond's back. This isn't close to possible in a realistic poker match up. Poker players don't sweat it at all. Hey why didn't the French and British governments just pay every casino to not let Le Chiffre play by telling him 'No commies allowed'? What a plot hole.

Peter Franks

[MarcAngeDraco]

If the game is Texas Hold Em, it's just a lame attempt to popularize the film by including the recently popular game. (One that is already very tired, IMHO...)

[blueman]

It's occured to me that the big game with Le Chiffre might not be on the casino floor, but a more private affair. Poker could work for that.

[DLibrasnow]

Where are the moderators? Shouldn't this thread have a spoiler tag to it?

[spynovelfan]

Is it true that Texas Hold Em poker is going to take the place of baccarat?

Who on earth plays poker in a tuxedo? It doesn't fit with the story. Poker players dress casual. Some even hide their emotions with hoodies and sunglasses. In the book James and Le Chiffre are showing lots of emotion, sweating, etc A henchman puts a gun in Bond's back. This isn't close to possible in a realistic poker match up. Poker players don't sweat it at all. Hey why didn't the French and British governments just pay every casino to not let Le Chiffre play by telling him 'No commies allowed'? What a plot hole.

Peter Franks

The whole gambling set-up is a plot hole in Fleming's novel. There's no earthly way a guy who owes a whole lot of money to a ruthless Russian organisation who will kill him if they find out would try to get the money back by gambling at cards! Ever been to a casino? Make much? The odds aren't great, are they? Neither is it in any way plausible that the British, French and American governments would launch a massive mission to make sure the guy loses. Odds are he will anyway - why bother? And odds are that their agent will screw up. As nearly happens.

Don't think you can think too much about plausibility in the Bond world. Spies generally don't use their real names when under cover, either - let alone give it out to anyone who asks.

And there's a whole thread about this subject in the Spoilers section.

[Mister Asterix]

Topic moved.

[DLibrasnow]

Thanks Evan

[Gabe Vieira]

If the game is Texas Hold Em, it's just a lame attempt to popularize the film by including the recently popular game.

I think it's more like the other way around. I'm not not so sure if they are trying to popularize the game as, it is already popular, but instead lure people into seeing the movie because the game is so popular. This is the first step in destroying a potentially great film. The second? Seal.

[tdalton]

If the game is Texas Hold Em, it's just a lame attempt to popularize the film by including the recently popular game.

I think it's more like the other way around. I'm not not so sure if they are trying to popularize the game as, it is already popular, but instead lure people into seeing the movie because the game is so popular. This is the first step in destroying a potentially great film. The second? Seal.

Between Poker, the quasi-reboot, Martin Campbell, and seeking to put non-actors into the film instead of other highly qualified people (I was first in favor of Seal as "Solari", but now I think that they could do better), I think that they are in the process of ruining both a potentially great movie, but also the potentially great tenure of Daniel Craig as James Bond.

[MarcAngeDraco]

If the game is Texas Hold Em, it's just a lame attempt to popularize the film by including the recently popular game.

I think it's more like the other way around. I'm not not so sure if they are trying to popularize the game as, it is already popular, but instead lure people into seeing the movie because the game is so popular. This is the first step in destroying a potentially great film. The second? Seal.

Perhaps you misunderstood me, because I was saying basically what you said.
I think using Texas Hold 'Em would be a mistake, since it seems that the popularity of Texas Hold 'Em has already peaked and it may very well be "last year's fad" by the time CR is released.

[luciusgore]

The problem with card game films is if you don't understand the game, you won't know what the hell is going on in the film. Dario Argento just did a horror film, The Card Player, with online poker and as someone who doesn't play, I just could not get into the drama.

[Kingdom Come]

This whole card game thing seems terribly tired that I have just literally come to the conclusion that the game may well not be at any table and may infact be played standing up - like a kind of The Avengers surreal 'fun house' type of game?

[Harmsway]

I for one could care less about whether they use Texas Hold 'Em Poker or Baccarat. For me, the game itself will have an EXTREMELY minimal effect on the film.

It's the same with Bond smoking... Bond hasn't smoked in the vast majority of films and so I don't particularly care whether he does or doesn't.

[DLibrasnow]

seeking to put non-actors into the film instead of other highly qualified people (I was first in favor of Seal as "Solari", but now I think that they could do better), I think that they are in the process of ruining both a potentially great movie

But the Bond movies have a tradition of choosing relatively unknown actors for roles in the movies.

I remember when A View To A Kill was released it was frequently referred to as the most star-packed movie in the series.

[spynovelfan]

Between Poker, the quasi-reboot, Martin Campbell, and seeking to put non-actors into the film instead of other highly qualified people (I was first in favor of Seal as "Solari", but now I think that they could do better), I think that they are in the process of ruining both a potentially great movie, but also the potentially great tenure of Daniel Craig as James Bond.

When you say non-actors, do you mean people like Ursula Andress,
Daniela Bianchi and Harold Sakata?

[Mister Asterix]

Between Poker, the quasi-reboot, Martin Campbell, and seeking to put non-actors into the film instead of other highly qualified people (I was first in favor of Seal as "Solari", but now I think that they could do better), I think that they are in the process of ruining both a potentially great movie, but also the potentially great tenure of Daniel Craig as James Bond.

When you say non-actors, do you mean people like Ursula Andress,
Daniela Bianchi and Harold Sakata?

They could have got such highly qualified people like David Niven, Orson Welles, William Holden, and John Houston.

[Timatom90]

I for one could care less about whether they use Texas Hold 'Em Poker or Baccarat. For me, the game itself will have an EXTREMELY minimal effect on the film.

It's the same with Bond smoking... Bond hasn't smoked in the vast majority of films and so I don't particularly care whether he does or doesn't.

I don't think most movie-goers know/care what the game is...

[Polynikes]

spynovelfan

The whole gambling set-up is a plot hole in Fleming's novel. There's no earthly way a guy who owes a whole lot of money to a ruthless Russian organisation who will kill him if they find out would try to get the money back by gambling at cards! Ever been to a casino? Make much? The odds aren't great, are they?

But in the book it's made clear that the gamblers at the Casino Royale aren't betting against the house but against each other...for each others money.

Le Chiffre being deviously clever (and not above cheating & intimidation) fancied his chances to re-stock his coffers...

What else could he do? Buy a million shares in Exxon?

...Don't think you can think too much about plausibility in the Bond world. Spies generally don't use their real names when under cover, either - let alone give it out to anyone who asks.

Well Bond isn't exactly a spy but I take the point - however as he's showing himself very prominantly in a very public place, it might be thought that there was little point in assuming a false identity.
He was picked because he was a fine gambler and a gentleman too meaning he was a member of a prestigious club in London....chances were he would be recognised anyway & even if he wasn't a false identity could come back to bite him in the future.

I hope the producers keep their nerve and limit the plot to that in the book - however they are taking a big chance with the teen market (especially in the USA). Teens don't care for maintaining the integrity of the literature, they care only for the 120 minutes they're in the cinema for. They're used to Bond saving the world whilst surrounded by sexy models under the age of 25, sexy cars, BIG explosions and novel stunts.

I would love to go see a Bond movie aimed at the hard core (meaning adult) fans & would like to think that those fans would turn out in sufficient force to make the movie financially viable. By recent accoutns, it seems that a massive budget isn't required for this movie anyway.

I posted a day or so ago that the producers should aim for at least an "R" rating (18 in the UK) or perhaps even go the whole nine yards and make an NC-17 rated Bond movie just as I think Fleming envisioned them.

...the chances are the teens would stay away from the movie and that wouldn't worry me a bit - they can go watch the Vampire War movies or Superman Versus Alien Versus Batman Versus Spiderman etc movies.