31 replies to this topic

[Byron]

Most of us are familiar with this "Holy Grail". Basically Eric Clapton recorded a LTK theme song which got dumped afterwards for the Gladys Knight version. Apparently footage for a video clip was also filmed.

Vic Flick the guitarist that worked with Clapton on this alternate LTK theme song claims that Eric Clapton has the sole surviving copy(ies) of it.

Doing a quick search on the net, i came across what looked like a Bootleg (CD?) called:

"Dylan & Friends Bobfest Rehearsals October 92" under the Yellow Cat label.

It contains the following 3 tracks:

Licence to Kill Take 1 / Licence to Kill Take 2 / Licence to Kill Take 3.

Eric Claptons name is on the bootleg, so could these 3 tracks be his alternate LTK theme song?

I could not find this CD? listed for sale anywhere.

There are 3 questions, i ask myself:

1) Is this bootleg for real, does it contain the alternate theme and can it be found/purchased?

2) If Clapton has the sole surviving copy, can he somehow be pursuaded to release it?

3) Is it possible for Sony/MGM to acquire the alternate theme from Clapton and include it as a bonus extra on the new DVD (Blu-Ray) editions scheduled for next year? Kind of like the alternate Thunderball theme included on the DVD.

Also i may have been dreaming but did someone here on CBN once post a link to the alternate theme song?

[stromberg]

1) Weren't it 1:30 AM on this side of the world, I could find out in a minute. But there is a Bobsong called "License to Kill" (on his Album "Infidels", I think), so I guess it's that one. There are Bobfest rehersal recordings in circulation, so the bootleg should be for real. Give me twelve hours to find out more.

2) nope, don't think so. Not even at gunpoint, for whatever reason.

3) No. I've somewhere heard the words "head" and "brick wall" related to this.


You must have been dreaming. Had someone posted a link here, I would know.

[Byron]

1) Weren't it 1:30 AM on this side of the world, I could find out in a minute. But there is a Bobsong called "License to Kill" (on his Album "Infidels", I think), so I guess it's that one. There are Bobfest rehersal recordings in circulation, so the bootleg should be for real. Give me twelve hours to find out more.

2) nope, don't think so. Not even at gunpoint, for whatever reason.

3) No. I've somewhere heard the words "head" and "brick wall" related to this.


You must have been dreaming. Had someone posted a link here, I would know.

Your efforts will be much appreciated Mr Stromberg!

Is it a good or bad sign to dream about Bond related stuff.....

[stromberg]

This is one of my favourite Bondmusic hobbyhorses. And my brother happens to be a Dylan collector for twenty years now.

I still haven't given up hopes that it some day will be available in some form. When I look at what is available (not officially, of course) from other bands and musicians who are in the same league with Clapton, I can see it happen.

Not really much info on this specific bootleg, but still...

a track list can be found here

Everyone rehearsed what he later played on the Bobfest. Clapton played "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright", "License To Kill" was done by Tom Petty.

Short CD description from here:

Rehearsals for the 30th anniversary. Artists playing on this disc: George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Roger McGuinn, Neil Young & Tom Petty. There is a lot of tuning in between the tracks. It's a nice disc, especially if you like the other people playing on the disc, but like other rehearsal discs, not one you'll be playing a lot.

And before anyone starts thinking things: the Dylan song "License to Kill" is from 1984.

[Byron]

This is one of my favourite Bondmusic hobbyhorses. And my brother happens to be a Dylan collector for twenty years now. 

I still haven't given up hopes that it some day will be available in some form. When I look at what is available (not officially, of course) from other bands and musicians who are in the same league with Clapton, I can see it happen.

Not really much info on this specific bootleg, but still...

a track list can be found here

Everyone rehearsed what he later played on the Bobfest. Clapton played "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright", "License To Kill" was done by Tom Petty.

Short CD description from here:

Rehearsals for the 30th anniversary. Artists playing on this disc: George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Roger McGuinn, Neil Young & Tom Petty. There is a lot of tuning in between the tracks. It's a nice disc, especially if you like the other people playing on the disc, but like other rehearsal discs, not one you'll be playing a lot.

And before anyone starts thinking things: the Dylan song "License to Kill" is from 1984.

Thank you for your efforts Stromberg. What pisses me off is that Vic Flick never kept a copy of it. He also seems to think with Michael Kamen passing on it will become much harder for this "lost" piece of Bond music to be discovered.

So the assumption is that Kamen had a copy, what happened to it?

Maybe Zencat has something to add. After all if the alternate theme to Thunderball which is much older can be released why can't this?

[Byron]

According to an article over at MI6.co.uk the recording is "buried deep in EON's vault".

Wishful thinking?

Can't we get someone with access to EON to search this "vault"?

What about John Cork???

[Blofeld's Cat]

DARNIT!! One of those oh-so-close-but-not-close-enough situations, isn't it!

This is one of my favourite Bondmusic hobbyhorses. And my brother happens to be a Dylan collector for twenty years now. 

I still haven't given up hopes that it some day will be available in some form. When I look at what is available (not officially, of course) from other bands and musicians who are in the same league with Clapton, I can see it happen.

That and the supposed theme song that was written by Jamiroquai lead singer TK who is a raging Bond fan. It's thought that an instrumental version of it is floating around in the ether somewhere.

a track list can be found here

Everyone rehearsed what he later played on the Bobfest. Clapton played "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright", "License To Kill" was done by Tom Petty.
-------
And before anyone starts thinking things: the Dylan song "License to Kill" is from 1984.

And it would be assumed that the track title would officially be called "Licence To Kill"

[stromberg]

DARNIT!! One of those oh-so-close-but-not-close-enough situations, isn't it!

Close, but no cigar.

And it would be assumed that the track title would officially be called "Licence To Kill"

I'm unable to check right now how it is written on the album, but anything official that I can see on the web actually has it spelled "License To Kill"



Funnily, on the wall next to my computer I have a poster of the only Dylan concert on which I saw him perform that song live (saw about 35 shows). Not one of his best songs - but then again, a lot of good people made some horrible music in the 80's.

Thinking about it, I doubt that there is only one surviving copy of the theme. It does exist in Clapton's vault, that is confirmed. Impossible to get a hand on it - only the penitent man may pass. I guess that Eon execs received an advance copy of it as well - they must have listened to it before they nixed it (they say MGW didn't like it). Chances to get that one (if it exists): this is a Bond board, need I mention that they are slim to none? Maybe (but this is pure speculation) Kamen should also have had one.

No one knows exactly what still exists. It is a mystery to the Claptonians as well - they know what we know. There may have beeen some rehearsals or early demo versions, of which no one knows if they were recorded, and I think I've seen it mentioned somewhere that two takes of the song were recorded during the studio session, one of which must have been pretty close to a definite version, as the production of a video was already on the way.

I don't know why Clapton seems to be so protective about it, and I have no clue if anyone ever dared to ask about this in an interview. I promise that this'll be the first question I'm going to ask him , should I ever meet him: "Tell me Mr. Clapton, do you still sleep with those LTK tapes under your pillow?" Frankly said, if we ever get to hear it, I expect it to be underwhelming. I doubt that Eon would have thrown away the chance to get a Clapton song for no reasons. And I don't think that it was the money. It could also be that Clapton later worked on the song or took elements from it, wrote some new lyrics and published it. Maybe we all have heard the song a few dozen times - but no one knew that the basis was his LTK.

Speculation, speculation.

[Tanger]

Wasn't it a new version of the Bond Theme that Clapton worked on for LTK not a theme for LTK? That's what has been stated before (and even mentioned in the Bond Files).

[The Cat]

Now I'll try to word carefully not to give away any spoilers...

Clapton's theme is only the tip of the ice berg which would have resulted in the change of the Bond music as we know it... But apparently it didn't. As the ice berg melted, the tip became too heavy, so the just got rid of the whole thing and brought us that "magnificent song" instead. There was in deed a video from which I have seen excerpts, but that was only raw footage of Eric Clapton and Vic Flick playing guitar in the studio. I think they would have cut it together with film exceprts if it were to be released, but alas it wasnt't. Now the video didn't have audio, so I can't comment on the actual theme, but I've been lucky enough to know more about people who heard the theme. The only known copy is in deed in Clapton's archives, but we don't know what it is... - session recording, demo, the final version? Kamen didn't have a copy, neither Vic Flick, nor the album producers or the musical supervisors, so this really closes the circle of where we could locate an alternate copy. I have a melody in my head based on the descriptions I got from the various sources, and let me just say that in his last sentence, Herr Stromberg raises a point that is more than valid. If I can trust the late Michael Kamen, we've ALL heard at least one version of theme.

[ACE]

From what I understand, Eric Clapton and Vic Flick recorded a version of the James Bond theme for the credits, not a Bond song.

I also understand that there were plans to shoot a video for it in London's Docklands.

I will try to source this information and post it later.

The plans were initially to have an instrumental theme incorporating the James Bond theme called Licence Revoked to be run over a photo montage of Leiter's wedding not a Maurice Binder title sequence.

[The Cat]

It's NOT the James Bond Theme, that was the whole point of doing the track in the first place. The track was supposed to be the main title theme of the movie - an instrumental one. Gladys Knight's song was comissioned days after Clapton's was nixed, so that should give you some idea how desperate they were. The London's Docklands video is there as well, only a bt different as you'd percieve from this description - while it was shot there, but based on what I saw, it could have been shot anywhere. The photo montage scene is half reality, half myth - but since I haven't seen actual footage of that, I can't say how it would look like. Based on what I heard, Binder's idea was some kind of movin photographs laid on each other and the cast-and-crew names appearing here and there, etc. Actually, the remains of this idea are still in the movie - just in case you were wondering why the movie begins and ends with a girl taking pictures at a wedding...

[stromberg]

...
I have a melody in my head based on the descriptions I got from the various sources, and let me just say that in his last sentence, Herr Stromberg raises a point that is more than valid. If I can trust the late Michael Kamen, we've ALL heard at least one version of theme.

I love it when my speculations turn out to have some truth to it

It seems only logical that some of the material was re-used, as I can't think of any other possibility why Clapton would lock away the original material. It can't be contractual issues. The material wasn't bought (or was he actually paid for it, much like John Gavin?), so there were no contractual issues, and in that case, Eon would surely own a copy of it (my speculation above was more like just mentioning the possibility - I'm very sure for some reason that they don't have one). Also, it can't have been that bad that it would make him feel ashamed for it - it was close to delivery and, being the perfectionist that he is, old Slowhand surely did a good piece, a piece that good that he found it a shame to throw it all away.

Some nice and interesting information there, Cat and ACE. Seems like everytime the topic comes up, new pices of that jigsaw puzzle are undisclosed. On a side note, I think it's possible that Flick and Clapton did play around with the Bond theme. Not for official reasons, but surely in a warm-up session or something like this.

[ACE]

Question for the Cat:

Which Eric Clapton song are you intimating was the basis for the theme tune for Licence Revoked?

[The Cat]

I said ALL of you have heard at least one version of the theme. And since this is not the Eric Clapton fanboard, you should be able to guess where exactly to look for the theme.

[stromberg]

Interestig hint which goes along with my conclusion

The emphasis on ALL implied that it could be one of Clapton's bigger post LTK hits. Thing is: apart from "Tears From Heaven" (of which I immediately doubted that he re-used his Bond material for that one), there hasn't been very much (according to M.C. Strong). Everything else was new versions of older songs.

I know that some day I would feel sorry not to be really into the post TLD soundtracks (Barry still is the master, even though George Martin comes pretty close) ...

[The Cat]

No, the ALL means it has nothing to do with Eric Clapton. I think the real mastermind behind this track is sadly forgotten here...

[ACE]

Why can't you just tell us?

Are you alluding to Michael Kamen?

Are you suggesting the theme was Everything I Do, from Prince of Thieves?
Or All For Love from The 3 Mustketeers?
Or Have You Ever Loved A Woman from Don Juan De Marco?

I don't understand why you cannot tell us?

[The Cat]

Because than my book would not sell...

But the answer is much more simpler than that. Actually all what was left of the track can be heard in LTK. The track was incorporated into the score and after the song was nixed, there were some serious rescorings - sometimes because of this, but this is nothing special since there were major rescorings regardless of THIS change. Actually, that's one of the reasons why the whole tanker scene was written in the last minute and the music is actually consists of crippled edits from a rerecording of the action cues present in the track 'Licence Revoked.' (Did my last sentence make sense?)

Anyway, when you thematically incorpotate a melody into the score, it's very hard to get it out. In the case of TND, Arnold didn't even try it. In the case of LTK, they tried it but I wouldn't say they managed it 100%. Based on the descriptions I got from the sources who were once heard this piece, here's an idea how it would sound like: imagine something VERY similar to the vamp of the James Bond Theme which is the whole basis for the track - lending an air of familiarity to the whole musical experience. Apparently there were two different guitar motives - I don't have the facts of what it was, just the desciption "very cool." From this (and the footage I saw) I'd imagine that one of them was played by Flick and Clapton played the other one, sort of like guitar duel. (makes you wanna cry, doesn't it?) Apparently these two motives may appear as secondary themes throughout the score, but I couldn't get more precise information on where they could be heard. Another small problem is that Licence To Kill has an awful soundtrack release which omits key thematic material so we can't even use it as a reference. I have my moderate guesses which themes would be the ones we're thinking about, but that would be just too much speculation on my part.

[mccartney007]

Maybe next time I'm in LA I'll call Vic and see if he wants to sit down and watch LTK with me to see if hears anything familar.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Thenks for that very interesting info Cat.

Another small problem is that Licence To Kill has an awful soundtrack release which omits key thematic material so we can't even use it as a reference. I have my moderate guesses which themes would be the ones we're thinking about, but that would be just too much speculation on my part.

Perhaps any of the cues that may have included reworked portions of THE theme in question were left purposely out for the reason that the theme was scrapped.

[The Cat]

Thenks for that very interesting info Cat.

Another small problem is that Licence To Kill has an awful soundtrack release which omits key thematic material so we can't even use it as a reference. I have my moderate guesses which themes would be the ones we're thinking about, but that would be just too much speculation on my part.

Perhaps any of the cues that may have included reworked portions of THE theme in question were left purposely out for the reason that the theme was scrapped.

I think the reason is for that is just pure ignorance.

[Ozzel]

...imagine something VERY similar to the vamp of the James Bond Theme...

As soon as you said that, "Pam" popped into my mind. I'm talking about track 4 on the CD, from 1:47 to the end. The music from the boat scene. IIRC, the music is repeated in the film (at the end, particularly), although no more of it appears on the album.

Edited by Ozzel, 04 December 2005 - 07:23 PM.

[Byron]

Maybe next time I'm in LA I'll call Vic and see if he wants to sit down and watch LTK with me to see if hears anything familar.

How about getting him to re-write it as he remembers it?

[mccartney007]

Maybe next time I'm in LA I'll call Vic and see if he wants to sit down and watch LTK with me to see if hears anything familar.

How about getting him to re-write it as he remembers it?

He doesn't seem to remember it at all, unfortunately. I asked him to try and play it for me, but he had no idea how it went.

[Byron]

To the Cat:

Are you really publishing a book? Details?

I appreciate your tidbits but also find them extremely frustrating. So what you are basically saying is that parts of the Clapton theme are incorporated in the existing soundtrack, but you are not sure what these parts are?

Because than my book would not sell... 

But the answer is much more simpler than that. Actually all what was left of the track can be heard in LTK. The track was incorporated into the score and after the song was nixed, there were some serious rescorings - sometimes because of this, but this is nothing special since there were major rescorings regardless of THIS change. Actually, that's one of the reasons why the whole tanker scene was written in the last minute and the music is actually consists of crippled edits from a rerecording of the action cues present in the track 'Licence Revoked.' (Did my last sentence make sense?)

Anyway, when you thematically incorpotate a melody into the score, it's very hard to get it out. In the case of TND, Arnold didn't even try it. In the case of LTK, they tried it but I wouldn't say they managed it 100%. Based on the descriptions I got from the sources who were once heard this piece, here's an idea how it would sound like: imagine something VERY similar to the vamp of the James Bond Theme which is the whole basis for the track - lending an air of familiarity to the whole musical experience. Apparently there were two different guitar motives - I don't have the facts of what it was, just the desciption "very cool." From this (and the footage I saw) I'd imagine that one of them was played by Flick and Clapton played the other one, sort of like guitar duel. (makes you wanna cry, doesn't it?) Apparently these two motives may appear as secondary themes throughout the score, but I couldn't get more precise information on where they could be heard. Another small problem is that Licence To Kill has an awful soundtrack release which omits key thematic material so we can't even use it as a reference. I have my moderate guesses which themes would be the ones we're thinking about, but that would be just too much speculation on my part.

[Byron]

So you did try! Bummer.

Well he may remember something if he watches the film.

I have a feeling this will remain one of those unsolved mysteries forever.

Maybe next time I'm in LA I'll call Vic and see if he wants to sit down and watch LTK with me to see if hears anything familar.

How about getting him to re-write it as he remembers it?

He doesn't seem to remember it at all, unfortunately. I asked him to try and play it for me, but he had no idea how it went.

[ACE]

I think The Cat is in the process of writing a book which, if it is ever finished, may or may not find a publisher.

What is the situation?

Are you based in continental Europe or the UK? Where are you based The Cat and what is the status on the proposed "book"?

[mccartney007]

So you did try! Bummer.

Well he may remember something if he watches the film.

I have a feeling this will remain one of those unsolved mysteries forever.

I am hoping something in LTK will ring a bell for him. Seeing as he's done so much over the course of the last 40 years I'm not too optimistic.

[Problem Eliminator]

A bit off topic, but every time I am subject to Serra's mundane The Experience of Love at the end of GoldenEye, it strikes me as a Clapton-esque tune.

Not saying this has anything to do with LTK, just saw the topic title and had to throw in my two cents, as off base as they may be.