105 replies to this topic

[Qwerty]

yet it is universally hated?

Not at all in my book.

[Carver]

I keep seeing people dis Bond films like MR, OP, YOLT, TMWTGG, DAF, DAD (that one REALLY gets dissed), even films like LTK, TLD, and OHMSS (that's unreal to dis that one).


I cannot understand this and really have never gotten it?


Why people dis films that are good?

There are some Bond films that could be dissed more approriately I think really.

TWINE for example it's utter trash compared to any of those.


TND is quite good overall but what about the ending? If you aregoing to bash MR for the ending what about the hate on TND's ending? Still TND is good overall.

But come on people constantly dissing MR, TMWTGG, DAF, I don't get it at all.

Those are damn good Bond films and DAD, the hate on that simply makes no sense.


It's better than TND, it's leaps better than TWINE, yet it is universally hated?


I think a lot of Bond fans need to get over it.


Pissy people that don't appreciate humor in the films, pissy people that don't appreciate pocorn flicks and pissy people that hate serious and in depth films (see OHMSS/LTK haters)............


really they need to get over it already. I have heard so many people dis AVTAK for instance, yet that is a very entretaining and funny Bond film, so what exactly is the reason people hate it? It's because they lack the humor to even get that it IS funny.

Good post there, my friend. I agree with most of what you said there but to be honest, I am a disser of DAF and DAD. DAF I rank as my worst Bond movie, primarily because it has way too much humour, which to be honest is usually kept to casual witty moments in Bond films. I don't like the way that Blofeld a.) can walk again after breaking his neck and b.) doesn't receive a hugely hosyile reception from Bond even though he killed his wife in the previous film. Yes, I know that people say not to think of the films going in order, but I still think that there should have been some references to OHMSS, I count DAF as coming after it. I think Connery looks too old in it (even though he was still the best Bond) and I really hate Tiffany. The bit where she falls off the side of the oil rig after firing the gun is just, ugh! I really cring e at that moment.
DAD I'm not a huge fan of because it just deteriated as it went along. It started out really well, but as we saw more of Halle Berry's acting it got gradually worse. I really hate the CGI surfing scene and the fight at the end. Also, the nod to past films got way too out of hand, they should have made them way more subtle and shouldn't have had so many.
I agree with you that MR, OP, and TMWTGG are underrated. I actually find parts of TMWTGG pretty good. I'm surprised to see YOLT and OHMSS being dissed, both are really great films IMO, and to diss TLD is blasphemy.
I do welcome humour in Bond films, but kept to a certain degree. Once again, good post

[RJJB]

It's always going to boil down to "different strokes for different folks." At least everyone here is civil enough not to lambaste anyone for having his own favorite movies. Personally, I will never watch a Roger Moore comedy again. But as there are plenty of people who enjoy them, who am I to critize?

[Con Laz Rog Tim Bros Dan 007]

Well it'sd just that to me I totally would understand if Rog's films actually were not funny, but the thing is Rog was absolutely freaking hilarious as were his films, sure they got silly and cheesy and all of that, and Rog was certainly tongue-in-cheek,
'


but the thing is he was funny and his films were very entertaining, gtreat Friday or Saturday night fun.


That's what confuses me about the hatred so many have for the Moore films.

I could understand if they played it off that way and it wasn't funny and amusing then well some of the one liners and dialogue in Brosnan's films come to mind (AWFUL, like "Yo mama!")

But with Moore it REALLY was hilarious, so to me even though really Bond is REALLY FRWL/DN/OHMSS and so forth, I don't get why people can't see that Moore's films were very funny and highly entertaining, because it was a different style but it was done quite well.

Edited by Con Laz Rog Tim Bros Dan 007, 22 November 2005 - 06:03 AM.

[Stephen Spotswood]

Whether or not the Moore Bond movies were funny is beside the point, since funny is relative. But the Bond series is not "Get Smart," nor "The Avengers." There were rumors that Adam West of TV's "Batman" was in the running to play James Bond, and unfortunately, that's the way Moore played the part, campy.

[Streetworker]

I can't stand "Moonraker."  It was the absolute nadir of the Bond series.  It had the return of one of the worst characters ever in Richard Kiel's Jaws.  The plot seemed like they were jealous of "Star Wars."  Moore and Brosnan both had potential as Bond, but their chances were spoiled by producers who wanted bigger and bigger effects, and the character taking more and more of a back seat.  Bond was the first great action-adventure figure and led the pack, with Moore and Brosnan it just followed the pack.

The nadir? no, sorry can't agree. TMWTGG, AVTAK and, for me Thunderball (controversial I know, but I'm entitled to my opinion) are worse. It's campy to be sure, but there's nothing wrong with a bit of camp. In fact, one can't help thinking that Fleming's books now have a campy element to them.

[spynovelfan]

In fact, one can't help thinking that Fleming's books now have a campy element to them.

Camp, dear? Fleming's books, dear? I have never heard such insults in all my life! How very DAAAAARE you?

[Streetworker]

Well it'sd just that to me I totally would understand if Rog's films actually were not funny, but the thing is Rog was absolutely freaking hilarious as were his films, sure they got silly and cheesy and all of that, and Rog was certainly tongue-in-cheek,
'


but the thing is he was funny and his films were very entertaining, gtreat Friday or Saturday night fun.


That's what confuses me about the hatred so many have for the Moore films.

I could understand if they played it off that way and it wasn't funny and amusing then well some of the one liners and dialogue in Brosnan's films come to mind (AWFUL, like "Yo mama!")

But with Moore it REALLY was hilarious, so to me even though really Bond is REALLY FRWL/DN/OHMSS and so forth, I don't get why people can't see that Moore's films were very funny and highly entertaining, because it was a different style but it was done quite well.

In my experience, it's only people totally devoid of a sense of humour who diss old Rog's movies. And, of course, those devoid of humour ALWAYS deny not having one...

[Streetworker]

In fact, one can't help thinking that Fleming's books now have a campy element to them.

Camp, dear? Fleming's books, dear? I have never heard such insults in all my life! How very DAAAAARE you?

But I don't regard camp as a perjorative term; ergo, it wasn't an insult. But, c'mon, a line like "Her bottom was as firm and rounded as a boy's" can't be regarded as anything else, can it?

[Scorpion]

The nadir? no, sorry can't agree...for me Thunderball (controversial I know, but I'm entitled to my opinion) are worse.

Thunderball a nadir? Really? Wow...I'd have put it as Connery's climax...and, indeed, one of the peaks of the entire canon.

Streetworker, do enlighten us on your views.

Edited by Scorpion, 22 November 2005 - 06:21 PM.

[zencat]

Just responding to the header topic, I find Moonraker one of the most enjoyable of all the Bond films and I love watching it. Pure audacious Cubby Broccoli at the top of his game fun. It's not personal, it's not "gritty and realistic", it doesn't worship at the alter of Ian Fleming or even the Bond films of the '60s. It has enormously confidence to be its own Bond in its own era and, yes, James Bond goes into outer space and it works!

Even though it gets a little goofy in spots, it's still pure CUBBY and pure '70s Roger and that's why Moonraker is a classic, IMO.

[Bon-san]

I keep seeing people dis Bond films like MR, OP, YOLT, TMWTGG, DAF, DAD (that one REALLY gets dissed), even films like LTK, TLD, and OHMSS (that's unreal to dis that one).


I cannot understand this and really have never gotten it?


Why people dis films that are good?

There are some Bond films that could be dissed more approriately I think really.

TWINE for example it's utter trash compared to any of those.

So one should only dis films that you don't like. Got it. Can you post a complete list, so I can be fully aware of my choices? See, I'm a tad confused. In one post you decry the dissing of DAD. But in a later post you defend the humour in the Moore films as excellent compared to the "awful" stuff ("Yo Mama") found in DAD. So I'm not sure if dissing DAD is OK by you, or not.

I DO think that if one is going to post critical opinions of films, characters, actors, writers, etc., that one should be gracious in so doing. I really have no tolerance for the "Does anyone else hate Goldfinger?" or "Brosnan/Dalton/Lazenby/Moore SUCKS!" type threads.

[Qwerty]

Wow...I'd have put it as Connery's climax...and, indeed, one of the peaks of the entire canon.

Completely agreed.

[Genrewriter]

Just responding to the header topic, I find Moonraker one of the most enjoyable of all the Bond films and I love watching it. Pure audacious Cubby Broccoli at the top of his game fun. It's not personal, it's not "gritty and realistic", it doesn't worship at the alter of Ian Fleming or even the Bond films of the '60s. It has enormously confidence to be its own Bond in its own era and, yes, James Bond goes into outer space and it works!

Even though it gets a little goofy in spots, it's still pure CUBBY and pure '70s Roger and that's why Moonraker is a classic, IMO. 

That's more or less where I am on it these days. It's not higher up on my list, but I do enjoy it for what it is: a fun but flawed adventure.

[Scottlee]

The last time I ranked the Bond films I placed this one a respectable 11th out of 20? Why? Because although all the bad attempts at humour in MR severely drag it down, it's still hard to ignore all that is good about the film....

- A fantastic villain in Drax. You have to love his dialogue "Now you see the splendour of my conception".
- One of the best ever Bond soundtracks, particularly excelling itself in the last half an hour.
- One of the best pre-title sequences in the series. In fact, for sheer spectacle I would go as far as to put this on the shortlist for most exciting opening to any film ever.

These for me are the things that stand out. I could make a list of about 30 or 40 other more minor things that I liked but I would be here all day. Moonraker is a perfect Bond film up until the ridiculous boat chase in Venice, where bullet holes conveniently go all the way around the outline of a arc-shaped bridge (among other absurdities).

From this point onwards the film enters a dodgy phase full of cringeworthy bits of humour and poorly constructed stunts, most of which involve Jaws. His airport scene is ok, as is the one where he and Bond smile at each other at the mardi gras. After that it gets silly. The cable car sequence is passable fare until you see the cable car sequence from the film Where Eagles Dare (1969). From that moment onwards in your life the one in MR just feels rubbish. I mean come on. Like Jaws could perform a standing jump so huge! Like he could crash through a building and end up with a giant cog wheel wrapped perfectly around his head!

Said dodgy phase finally comes to an end (and not before time) at the climax of the Brazilian boat chase just prior to Bond fighting the snake. If ever there was a case of Q's gadgets making an action sequence seem boring then this is it. Bond presses the guided missile button *boom*. Bond presses the mines button *boom*. Come on, this is not good screenwriting.

Luckily, it's all good after this. I love Bond's slow walk into Drax's hollowed out temple. The sets and general scenary in Moonraker are spectacular all the way through the film, and it is never more evident than when the plot reaches Brazil.

I don't have all night to go with this but I happen to really like Moonraker, just so long as I turn my head away whenever the unnecessary bits pop up on screen.

[Stephen Spotswood]

"Her bottom was as firm and rounded as a boy's" can't be regarded as anything else, (camp) can it?

Actually it can. In Ian Fleming's books, James Bond seemed to prefer the more athletic women to the more voluptuous ones. Their breasts were always described as just fine. They wore little makeup or gaudy jewels. One gets the impression that they are the horsey, tennis, golfer types.