107 replies to this topic

[luciusgore]

I think if Zorro is a complete disaster at the box office (which it's like it will) than I think Sony will definity have some serious problems letting him continue on CR. If it doesn't make it's money back within the first 2 or 3 weeks than I expect Campbell to be let go from the film and a new director will be brought it (maybe Chris Nolan- one could only hope)

The industry doesn't work like that. Campbell was not hired to ensure good reviews for Zorro, and I guarantee you nobody at Sony is the least bit concerned about the reviews. Did you see what the No.1 movie was last weekend, and the reviews it got? And the week before? DOOM and THE FOG, two movies that got appalling reviews. I'd be surprised if Zorro doesn't open at No.1 this weekend, its an action movie that isn't confined to appealing to one specific demographic, and there's nothing else like it out there in the marketplace right now.
Anyway that's off the point. Zorro has absolutely nothing to do with CR. Campbell was hired because he has a relationship with EON and he delivered (not in my opinion) the best of the Brosnan era Bonds. He is already working on Casino Royale, he will not be off the project, barring an act of God.

Well Sony will be concerned because it will hurt their bottom line. But I agree Zorro will likely be No. 1 this weekend, despite the negative reviews, as it will attract the "Spy Kids" crowd. If it isn't No. 1, then Sony/Eon might worry a bit. I would be more worried about Sony -- coming up with yet another bad idea for a film. I don't think anyone wanted a Zorro sequel. That movie came out so long ago, people have forgotten it ever existed.

[dinovelvet]

Well Sony will be concerned because it will hurt their bottom line. But I agree Zorro will likely be No. 1 this weekend, despite the negative reviews, as it will attract the "Spy Kids" crowd. If it isn't No. 1, then Sony/Eon might worry a bit. I would be more worried about Sony -- coming up with yet another bad idea for a film. I don't think anyone wanted a Zorro sequel. That movie came out so long ago, people have forgotten it ever existed.

Yes I really don't know why there's a Zorro sequel at this point. In fact, I'm betting it was greenlit after Pirates of the Caribbean came out. Sony exec : Swords? In a safe PG family action movie? Didn't we do one of those a few years ago? Sequel, baby!

[Dmitri Mishkin]

I'm looking forward to this movie myself. As we all know, the general rule is that sequels are inevitably a disappointment on some level. So clearly we can't automatically expect greatness. As for the continuing criticism against Campbell, let's not forget that the producers behind the film (and the first) include Steven Spielberg and Walter F. Parkes. Neither of which are small players on the Hollywood stage (Parkes produced Gladiator, Road to Perdition and A Beautiful Mind... most of Spielberg's work speaks for itself). They obviously see something in him, and I suspect it's that Campbell is a solid director that is consistent. And perhaps, a craftsman. So I don't think we have anything to worry about on the CR directorial front. Campbell is a steady, if not incredibly risky, but reliable choice.

[luciusgore]

Zorro is now only the third second worst reviewed movie of the weekend doing better than a flick called "G". But it's less popular than "Saw".

Aint It Cool News likes it: http://www.aintitcoo...ay.cgi?id=21687

Its true Spielberg did executive produce, so yes there i ssome faith in Campbell out there.

[luciusgore]

Here's the full Wall Street Journal review. Hopefully, this same fate won't befall "Casino Royale," and the next Bond film will be more in the spirit of early Bond or perhaps the original Zorro:

During one of many overwrought action sequences in "The Legend Of Zorro," the masked hero played by Antonio Banderas rides his horse on top of a hurtling train. A fiddler on the roof is one thing, improbable but folkloric. An equine on a train roof is a horse of a different color.

A frantic too-muchness defeats this sequel to "The Mask of Zorro," which captivated summer audiences seven years ago and has earned a place of honor on the DVD shelf. (Both films were directed by Martin Campbell.) This is no great surprise; the formula that studios routinely apply to sequels is More, Bigger, Louder, Coarser and Still More. But Mr. Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones were so funny and enchanting in the first film. Now, as husband and wife, they bicker about whether he should stay home and be a good father or go off to save the new state-to-be of California from plundering thieves. He goes off, of course, and some of his adventures are entertaining; they're also handsomely produced and beautifully shot (by Phil Meheux). But spasms of kung fu wire fighting, Spider-Man acrobatics, huge explosions and a lethal polo game can't replace the first film's beating heart and witty soul.

[Prav_007]

To me its sequel's are far worse than prequels, so I would expect for Bond 22 to be far worse than CR if Martin Campbell is directing it.

[morganhavoc]

Saw the Legend of Zorro on Wednesday 26th oct( sneak preview). Not too bad a film, was fun and my son and his friend both liked it (11year olds).Yes I could do a plot analysis and find problems, but why? Wasn't meant to be the greatest film ever. Will do good box office and make money.

But I kept thinking about Campbell as a director and what he would bring to Casino Royale. I have never thought Campbell was much more than an average director, (Campbell is much better director than John Glen was... but who isn't?) but he does seem to do well with action scenes and light hearted types of films.

So it makes me wonder how Casino Royale will turn out. I hope that he will try to change his style somewhat for CR, because he seems to indicate in interviews that CR isn't going to be light hearted and full of action scenes. Will he rise to the occasion?

[luciusgore]

Campbell did great with GOLDENEYE. It is clearly the best movie Campbell ever made, and the best Bond movie of the past 25 years. It was efficient, stylish, better than all the Mission Impossible movies. It arguably resurrected the spy movie, came out before Mission Impossible or any of the Bourne films. If they had hired one of the Bourne directors to make CR it might have been better.

Campbell, in my opinion, will need to make something BETTER than GOLDENEYE because the actor in the lead role has been met with so much skepticism.

[Harmsway]

It is clearly the best movie Campbell ever made...

Well, I personally prefer Campbell's The Mask of Zorro myself. It's more flashy and has a better sense of fun. GoldenEye was far too drab and gray for its own good.

[luciusgore]

It is clearly the best movie Campbell ever made...

Well, I personally prefer Campbell's The Mask of Zorro myself. It's more flashy and has a better sense of fun. GoldenEye was far too drab and gray for its own good.

Given the high quality of the Bourne films, Campbell is going to have to outdo himself. CR must be WAY BETTER than GOLDENEYE.

[Harmsway]

It is clearly the best movie Campbell ever made...

Well, I personally prefer Campbell's The Mask of Zorro myself. It's more flashy and has a better sense of fun. GoldenEye was far too drab and gray for its own good.

Given the high quality of the Bourne films, Campbell is going to have to outdo himself. CR must be WAY BETTER than GOLDENEYE.

Definitely agreed.

[TheBritishEnd]

Yes I really don't know why there's a Zorro sequel at this point. In fact, I'm betting it was greenlit after Pirates of the Caribbean came out.

Or Shrek 2. Personally, I really thought they would've followed up the original much sooner. I had hoped that the long wait would equate to a worthy sequel, but perhaps this explains why it's being released at Halloween.

Anyway, today's review in USA Today did contain an interesting point which could end up applying to Campbell's next.

Of all things, this movie has the same problem Ghostbusters 2 had, which is this: You can't take bigger-than-life screen types and toss them into everyday, regular-folk situations.

Or, simply put, people don't like for their archetypes to be deconstructed. And most audiences are fans of the 'bigger-than-life' Bond of filmdom, not the vulnerable 007 of the books.

[Harmsway]

Yes I really don't know why there's a Zorro sequel at this point. In fact, I'm betting it was greenlit after Pirates of the Caribbean came out.

Of all things, this movie has the same problem Ghostbusters 2 had, which is this: You can't take bigger-than-life screen types and toss them into everyday, regular-folk situations.

The point there isn't that you can't take larger-than-life characters and have them in regular situations, with them still being larger-than-life.

Besides, there's quite a bit of difference there in that those people are played by the same actor. There's plenty of room for reinvention in the Bond series where it's been reinterpreted over and over again throughout the veries, providing a spectrum of interpretations.

[Bon-san]

A review from msn.com

"It's been seven years since Antonio Banderas and Catherine Zeta-Jones scored one of their biggest international hits with "The Mask of Zorro." In recent interviews, they claim they had to wait that long to make a sequel because they had trouble rounding up a solid script.

"The Legend of Zorro" is the screenplay that brought them out of big-Z retirement. Written by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who created last summer's costly bomb, "The Island," it's a similarly strained attempt to mix formulaic escapist elements with contemporary issues: terrorism, corporate corruption, America's status as a superpower and even weapons of mass destruction.

Still, it works fairly well as a popcorn picture, especially once the exposition is out of the way. Orci and Kurtzman may work too hard setting up a complicated plot, driven by a seductive French aristocrat (Rufus Sewell) and a homicidal religious fanatic (Nick Chinlund), that at first seems to be more trouble than it's worth. Once it's in place, however, their narrative delivers several satisfying twists.

The director, Martin Campbell, who made 1998's "Mask of Zorro," is at his best with action sequences: the athletic sword fights (Zeta-Jones again demonstrates a flair for swordplay), a barn fire that turns into a frightening inferno (rarely have flames seemed so inescapable in a movie), and a spectacular train wreck that deserves comparison with the eye-popping finale of "How the West Was Won."

Once more, Zeta-Jones plays Zorro's daughter, Elena, and Banderas is Alejandro, Zorro's disciple and replacement

[Bon-san]

...people don't like for their archetypes to be deconstructed.  And most audiences are fans of the 'bigger-than-life' Bond of filmdom, not the vulnerable 007 of the books.

That has been a nagging thought in the back of my mind for the past month.

As much as I am excited by the possibilities of the apparent approach to CR, I find myself falling back on the sentiment described above at times.

Repeat to self: "I urged Eon to be brave." !!!!

[Gobi-1]

I went and saw Zorro last night and I loved it. It's a great film, maybe not as great as the first one but that's because Anthony Hopkins isn't it, despite that it's still a great film.

There plenty of action which is imagitively staged, lots of humor, nasty villians and a sweeping score. Considering it's been seven years since the last film Legend didn't disappoint me. Besides how can anyone not like a film that features a horse who drinks and smokes a pipe?

[Harmsway]

For whatever reason, though, this film is taking a beating (25% at Rotten Tomatoes). I'll be interested to see how it performs in box office...

[dinovelvet]

For whatever reason, though, this film is taking a beating (25% at Rotten Tomatoes). I'll be interested to see how it performs in box office...

Came in 2nd on Friday, with 5.5 mil. Beaten by SAW II which had 12ish. So not a blockbuster then, I'm pretty surprised by that turnout.

[Gobi-1]

If true that would be slightly disappointing box office. Still the holiday movie season starts next Friday with Chicken Little so Zorro could ride the wave of increased theater attendence to a healthy profit.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I'll see the movie just to see Catherine Zeta-Jones!

[Qwerty]

For whatever reason, though, this film is taking a beating (25% at Rotten Tomatoes). I'll be interested to see how it performs in box office...

Came in 2nd on Friday, with 5.5 mil. Beaten by SAW II which had 12ish. So not a blockbuster then, I'm pretty surprised by that turnout.

Yikes. Even though the general impression is that this isn't a grand film, I expected it to do better than that.

[A Kristatos]

I saw the Legend of Zorro last night. I thought it was a very good film, not quite as good as the original, but fairly similar in visual style and energy. It also contained a lot of Bond and Indiana Jones nods (consider the director and executive producer: Campbell and Spielberg). Not the most original storyline, but the movie does well with what it has. And dare I say, it is a decent family film as well!

I would say based on this movie, Campbell has not lost his touch, and hopefully he will keep his touch through Casino Royale.

Also, based on some earlier posts, the Rotten Tomatoes "fresh" rating means squat! Consider the number one movie the past two weeks: Doom. It has been the number one movie by a landslide, with an even more putrid 19% "fresh" rating! So we'll wait and see how the box office numbers fare with Zorro when they are released tomorrow. That may give an indication on how the public will react with Campbell as director of Casino Royale.

[darthbond]

I saw LOZ with dad last night. RT is wrong. Loved the flim. Can't tell you anything unless you saw the flim. I am thinking of getting it. I am one of those unlucky people who didn't see the organal. You should see it, despite the spanish accent.

darthbond

[A Kristatos]

For whatever reason, though, this film is taking a beating (25% at Rotten Tomatoes). I'll be interested to see how it performs in box office...

Came in 2nd on Friday, with 5.5 mil. Beaten by SAW II which had 12ish. So not a blockbuster then, I'm pretty surprised by that turnout.

Well, Saw 2 is reaping the benefit of the Halloween audience. Nobody had a chance to beat this movie this week, though it will be interesting to see where Saw 2 ends up next week.

Word of mouth may help Zorro out in the coming weeks. It may take a few days for it to overcome the onslaught of negative reviews, for which I still don't understand why this is. It is interesting to see that over 2400 user reviews give Zorro and average grade of B, well above the C+ average that many critics have given it.

[Bond Bug]

It is clearly the best movie Campbell ever made...

Well, I personally prefer Campbell's The Mask of Zorro myself. It's more flashy and has a better sense of fun. GoldenEye was far too drab and gray for its own good.

Given the high quality of the Bourne films, Campbell is going to have to outdo himself. CR must be WAY BETTER than GOLDENEYE.

Definitely agreed.

Yes, the media will not only compare Craig as Bond with Brosnan as Bond, but Campbell's Goldenye with Campbell's Casino Royale.

[Bon-san]

Given the high quality of the Bourne films, Campbell is going to have to outdo himself. CR must be WAY BETTER than GOLDENEYE.

This is the kind of comment that really undermines my spirit.

"must be"?

What is the intent of this comment?

[Andrew]

Zorro is now only the third second worst reviewed movie of the weekend doing better than a flick called "G". But it's less popular than "Saw".

Aint It Cool News likes it: http://www.aintitcoo...ay.cgi?id=21687

Its true Spielberg did executive produce, so yes there i ssome faith in Campbell out there.

If I remember correctly they also liked DAD...

[luciusgore]

Given the high quality of the Bourne films, Campbell is going to have to outdo himself. CR must be WAY BETTER than GOLDENEYE.

This is the kind of comment that really undermines my spirit.

"must be"?

What is the intent of this comment?

It means "has to be" -- failure is not an option.

Like SPECTRE, we must not tolerate failure. What it means is, if it isn't better, then Craig will be a one- or two-off Bond and it will be back to the drawing board.

I actually am not as concerned about Craig as I am about Sony. Given the failure of Zorro. Some point to Spider-Man 2 as evidence of Amy Pascal's genius, but she inherited that project. Any Spiderman movie is going to make oodles of money.

It's a mediocre film like Zorro (or even Die Another Day, which was better reviewed BTW) that proves a studio's marketing prowess. They failed with Zorro. Failed miserably.

[trumanlodge89]

whoever thought a zorro sequal 6 years after the original was a good idea was about 4 years too late. the original was good, but this seems to be a stale retread. the studios made the mistake of treating zorro like a franchise like bond or batman, which it is not.

and theatres havent been able to get audiences for anything since batman, and that was in july. maybe the problem is the oversaturation of the market, coupled with unoriginal ideas and skyrocketing ticket prices. back when movies were affordable, people would go see them. now too many people are willing to "wait for the DVD."



zorro is in no way the fault of martin campbell.

[zencat]

I added a poll for those who have seen it.