55 replies to this topic

[Napoleon Solo]

Over in another thread, there's a discussion about tensions between Barbara Broccoli and Pierce Brosnan, and that it goes back to Tomorrow Never Dies. Do we know any specifics? Was it over scripts? Was it just they didn't get along? Just curious.

[Frankie]

Pierce wouldn't play Toy Boy for her. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!

[Stratus]

From what I remember there were some "creative" conflicts.

ie; Brosnan wanted to film a smoking scene, do more dialogue as oppose to action. Possibly screentime; Babs really pushed the "Bond Girl that is a equal to Bond" idea, this idea would be repeated in the form of "Jinx" again

[Mona Lovesit]

From what I remember there were some "creative" conflicts.

ie; Brosnan wanted to film a smoking scene, do more dialogue as oppose to action. Possibly screentime; Babs really pushed the "Bond Girl that is a equal to Bond" idea, this idea would be repeated in the form of "Jinx" again

If we are talking Tomorrow Never Dies I wonder if the "smoking scene" was to be the one in which he is waiting in his hotel room wondering who Carver would send? Got to be, surely.

[Frankie]

From what I remember there were some "creative" conflicts.

ie; Brosnan wanted to film a smoking scene, do more dialogue as oppose to action. Possibly screentime; Babs really pushed the "Bond Girl that is a equal to Bond" idea, this idea would be repeated in the form of "Jinx" again

Somebody oughta take the reigns away from Babs. She'll be the ruination of the Bond franchise.

[SeanValen00V]

From what I remember there were some "creative" conflicts.

ie; Brosnan wanted to film a smoking scene, do more dialogue as oppose to action. Possibly screentime; Babs really pushed the "Bond Girl that is a equal to Bond" idea, this idea would be repeated in the form of "Jinx" again

Somebody oughta take the reigns away from Babs. She'll be the ruination of the Bond franchise.

Yep, TND, TWINE, DAD, they had all the tools to make modern day bond classics, if someone like Tony Scott/Ridley Scott were the producers, people who understand proper film making, we would be seeing the full potential of brosnan seen on screen. the bond films are too tightly controlled by Barbara, if Cubby had a son, brosnan would still be bond. Or his 5th and last would of been out next month!

[Flavius]

Much as I like Craig, I do feel frustrated that we didn't get an acknowledged 'swansong' film for PB. I had the same feeling with Dalton actually.

[XXX]

100% fantasy & speculation in this thread.

Unless anyone has something to prove it, this thread is awefully close to slander.


...just saying...

[Scottlee]

Much as I like Craig, I do feel frustrated that we didn't get an acknowledged 'swansong' film for PB. I had the same feeling with Dalton actually.

I think LTK is actually the most suitable "swansong" Bond film there has ever been. What you really just wish is that Dalton had done more either before or after it. I wish that too.

[stromberg]

100% fantasy & speculation in this thread.

Unless anyone has something to prove it, this thread is awefully close to slander.


...just saying...

Well put.

[Napoleon Solo]

OK, doesn't sound like there's a lot of specific information.

[doublenoughtspy]

There is an awful lot of speculation in this thread.

To my knowledge, Pierce only publicly stated anything negative about Broccoli & Wilson pre-"opaque" era, and that was when he complained that neither family socialized with him. I think it referred to times when they weren't making Bond films.

A semi-inside source has told me the possible breakdown occured after the success of GE - it was a 3 way war of who was taking credit - star, director, producers.

In reality, they should have all shared the limelight, but I suppose Pierce could have overstepped his bounds and started making script/casting/director/tone demands at a point (2nd film) where other Bond actors who made 6 or 7 Bond films didn't even tread.

While the rumor continues to swirl that Broccoli and Brosnan did not get along - but I think it is crazy to say it is just her. Wilson has been with the franchise longer, was a much larger part of the team that screwed over Brosnan the first time and so I think you have to look at the fact that Eon is run by two people not just one - and there must be other reasons than a simple personality conflict between Barbara and Pierce.

[SecretAgentFan]

There is an awful lot of speculation in this thread.

To my knowledge, Pierce only publicly stated anything negative about Broccoli & Wilson pre-"opaque" era, and that was when he complained that neither family socialized with him.  I think it referred to times when they weren't making Bond films.

A semi-inside source has told me the possible breakdown occured after the success of GE - it was a 3 way war of who was taking credit - star, director, producers.

In reality, they should have all shared the limelight, but I suppose Pierce could have overstepped his bounds and started making script/casting/director/tone demands at a point (2nd film) where other Bond actors who made 6 or 7 Bond films didn't even tread.

While the rumor continues to swirl that Broccoli and Brosnan did not get along - but I think it is crazy to say it is just her.  Wilson has been with the franchise longer, was a much larger part of the team that screwed over Brosnan the first time and so I think you have to look at the fact that Eon is run by two people not just one - and there must be other reasons than a simple personality conflict between Barbara and Pierce.

Absolutely! I also think that Brosnan, who was understandbly pissed when he got THE phonecall, tried to stir media attention so that he could blackmail EON in re-hiring him again. But that obviously misfired. SONY, probably, tried to talk EON into getting Brosnan back for some time (and they at least had to act as if towards Brosnan since they are in business together with his production company). But EON in the end prevailed. And that is something you have to admire EON for. Even if some part of their decision had to do with getting rid of an actor who tried to force his opinion on them, the main part really was their wish to do something new and fresh and risky with their franchise. And a new actor was the only way to do so.

In the end, Brosnan should have used another approach: being friendly and supportive. Maybe EON would have asked him back then.

[Stratus]

I remember there was talk about Brosnan wanting to smoke somehow - while the producers wanted otherwise. He got his wish in Die another Day with the cigar to be fair.

As for the "Bond girl" equal, that is not fantasy, Michael Wilson advised against this I think, he was very particular about Halle Berry but Barbara overrided him. Is it any surprise she was the one who spearheaded the "Jinx" spinoff and before that a Wai Lin spinoff as well? It's very logical that by having a very dominant female, it WILL take screen time away from the lead.

As for the dialogue assertion this was taken straight from the horse's mouth: Brosnan was complaining about this.

Also to be fair Michael Wilson was one of the producers who preferred a younger Bond approach, this was again not new because he actually wanted to reboot the franchise with Timothy Dalton but Cubby blocked him on that idea. With the "revival" of Batman, he probably saw that opportunity to justify his idea, for it did reasonable well both critically/financially.

EDIT: I must have made 5 million typos, I need coffee.

Edited by Stratus, 23 October 2005 - 04:20 PM.

[Operation: Thunderball]

100% fantasy & speculation in this thread.

Unless anyone has something to prove it, this thread is awefully close to slander.


...just saying...

The owners of this site are taking a chance.

Too much anti-Eon posts; not enough balance.

I think continuing this thread is in bad taste.

(I mean posters are suggesting things like Barbara not being shagged by Brosnan as a 'reason'... A touch trashy, i'd say!)

What do the administrators think? Or are we going tabloid here?

Edited by Operation: Thunderball, 24 October 2005 - 02:44 AM.

[Gri007]

Brosnan I think wanted to do a lot more than what the other Bond's did. Brosnan wanted to 'peel back the layers of 007'. He wanted to give Bond more character and make it more psychological (TWINE for example). Barbara might have not wanted that. she also might have not wanted the three year time gap as Brosnan requeseted.

Opertaion Thunderball has some good points. We are slagging EON pretty badly. Afterall if it wasn't for EON we wouldn;t be here discusing Bond.

[Flavius]

Also to be fair Michael Wilson was one of the producers who preferred a younger Bond approach, this was again not new because he actually wanted to reboot the franchise with Timothy Dalton but Cubby blocked him on that idea. With the "revival" of Batman, he probably saw that opportunity to justify his idea, for it did reasonable well both critically/financially.

That's the idea that is pretty risky, IMHO. The 'reboot' for Batman worked. The reboot for Jack Ryan though (The Sum of All Fears) was another matter...

I've always been inclined to think that continuity goes out the window in most of the series, though. To me every new actor has been something of a reboot. That being so, we can only hope Craig works where Ben Affleck failed (anyway, I think Affleck's best film was Mallrats! He shouldn't have touched Tom Clancy).

[Double-Oh Agent]

doublenoughtspy, Brosnan didn't get screwed by EON back in 1986, he got screwed by NBC. Cubby Broccoli said he wouldn't hire an actor who would remain on a TV show, under the theory that fewer people would watch a Bond movie when they could see the actor playing him in a Bond-type role (Remington Steele) every week.

Brosnan was supposedly available to become 007 because NBC canceled his show, Remington Steele, but NBC still had a 60-day option after the cancellation to renew the show. With the knowledge that Brosnan could likely be Bond, TV viewership interest in the show increased. NBC tried to negotiate with Broccoli so that they could both have Brosnan but Cubby told them no, he wasn't going to share Brosnan with a TV show.

In the end, NBC gambled that Broccoli would give in and renewed Remington Steele for another season on the 60th and final day of their option. But Cubby instead walked away from Brosnan and just like that, when Brosnan had the James Bond role at his fingertips, it was gone. NBC then made things even worse for Brosnan when they re-canceled Remington Steele after only four or six episodes--essentially making the show's renewal pointless.

Yes, EON probably signed Brosnan prematurely--they should have waited the full 60 days before signing him--but hindsight is always 20/20. At least Brosnan got a second chance and proved his worth as Bond.

[TheSaint]

100% fantasy & speculation in this thread.

Unless anyone has something to prove it, this thread is awefully close to slander.

...just saying...

The owner's of this site are taking a chance.

Too much anti-Eon posts; not enough balance.

I think continuing this thread is in bad taste.

(I mean posters are suggesting things like Barbara not being shagged by Brosnan as a 'reason'... A touch trashy, i'd say!)

What do the administrators think? Or are we going tabloid here?

As this site isn't backed by Eon, we are free to post whatever we want, within reason. Also, I think I can safely say that neither Babs or Mike visit this site so, I don't think she will ever know that we are "slandering" her, real or imagined.

[DLibrasnow]

100% fantasy & speculation in this thread.

Unless anyone has something to prove it, this thread is awefully close to slander.


...just saying...

Actually it's libel, not slander.

[doublenoughtspy]

Double-Oh Agent,

Look at it from Brosnan's perspective.

He tested for James Bond. He got the part. He had photos taken signing the contract & with the clapperboard beside the director John Glen.

Then the NBC deal gets picked up. They are willing to film the show around Brosnan's schedule for TLD, including transporting show production to Europe.

The deal almost happens, until Broccoli asks for assurance that they won't promote Remington Steele as James Bond lite.

And NBC refuses. NBC also offers Broccoli the offer to buy out Brosnan's contract. Which he refuses.

I know someone who showed Brosnan the photos from his first Bond announcement years later that never happened (the two I mentioned, plus one of him in a tux that had Eon Productions under it). Brosnan was both livid and disgusted that they were so obviously willing to hire him but wouldn't take that extra step.

So yes, NBC screwed him, but Eon could have very easily either ponied up the money, or gone ahead and let him do both.

[David Schofield]

Double-Oh Agent,

Look at it from Brosnan's perspective.

He tested for James Bond.  He got the part.  He had photos taken signing the contract & with the clapperboard beside the director John Glen.

Then the NBC deal gets picked up.  They are willing to film the show around Brosnan's schedule for TLD, including transporting show production to Europe.

The deal almost happens, until Broccoli asks for assurance that they won't promote Remington Steele as James Bond lite.

And NBC refuses.  NBC also offers Broccoli the offer to buy out Brosnan's contract.  Which he refuses.

I know someone who showed Brosnan the photos from his first Bond announcement years later that never happened (the two I mentioned, plus one of him in a tux that had Eon Productions under it).  Brosnan was both livid and disgusted that they were so obviously willing to hire him but wouldn't take that extra step.

So yes, NBC screwed him, but Eon could have very easily either ponied up the money, or gone ahead and let him do both.

Doublenoughtspy, that presumes that EON - ie. Cubby - was so desperate to sign Brozza at any cost - if at all. Hasn't Cubby remarked - certainly in his autobiography - that he wanted Dalton all along but that Dalton initially couldn't make the timescale involved as he was doing a play which was cancelled early. Ergo, Dalton becomes available, NBC put a hitch in the signing of Brozza and Cubby has an excuse to move on to the man he wanted in the first place.

[doublenoughtspy]

Well,

I don't how much clearer it can get that they wanted him with the pictures of him signing the contract, next to the director, and in front of Cubby's Rolls Royce in front of the 007 stage, etc.

There is a 1986 or 1987 TV interview with Cubby & Michael where Cubby emphatically states "We never wanted Pierce Brosnan."

Huh? So those pictures and the contract was for show?

I agree, had they been desperate for Brosnan they would have bent over backwards and fought/bargained with NBC.

[David Schofield]

Well,

I don't how much clearer it can get that they wanted him with the pictures of him signing the contract, next to the director, and in front of Cubby's Rolls Royce in front of the 007 stage, etc.

There is a 1986 or 1987 TV interview with Cubby & Michael where Cubby emphatically states "We never wanted Pierce Brosnan."

Huh?  So those pictures and the contract was for show?

I agree, had they been desperate for Brosnan they would have bent over backwards and fought/bargained with NBC.

Oh, Cubby's 86/87 remarks were clearly for show. I think they did want Brozza, albeit it as a fall-back, however acceptable and suitable, for Dalton. Cubby was always 100% behind Dalton in the pre-Goldeneye dealings and I think felt chuffed that somebody of Dalton's artistic ability had taken on Bond in the first place.

[spynovelfan]

As for the "Bond girl" equal, that is not fantasy, Michael Wilson advised against this I think, he was very particular about Halle Berry but Barbara overrided him. Is it any surprise she was the one who spearheaded the "Jinx" spinoff and before that a Wai Lin spinoff as well? It'

How do you know this stuff?

My view - purely speculative - is that in a rich irony Brosnan was pushing them to be grittier and they weren't interested. Then, after DAD was released and every single person on the planet practically said the same thing, they did an about turn. They are doing almost excactly what Brosnan was advocating - the first proper version of CASINO ROYALE, a reasonably faithful adaptation with edge to it, taking care with the script, cutting back the explosions and gadgets, etc. But they're doing it without Brosnan, because they also decided to take a leaf out of the Batman book and do something of a reboot.

All theory, though - I have absolutely no idea what went on behind the scenes. Do any of us, really?

[morganhavoc]

From what I remember there were some "creative" conflicts.

ie; Brosnan wanted to film a smoking scene, do more dialogue as oppose to action. Possibly screentime; Babs really pushed the "Bond Girl that is a equal to Bond" idea, this idea would be repeated in the form of "Jinx" again

If we are talking Tomorrow Never Dies I wonder if the "smoking scene" was to be the one in which he is waiting in his hotel room wondering who Carver would send? Got to be, surely.

Yes that is the scene. Brosnan mentioned that that would have been a perfect time for Bond to be smoking. Thought it would reveal some character. God knows you can't do that in a Jame Bond film anymore. ( reveal character)

Edited by morganhavoc, 24 October 2005 - 02:48 PM.

[spynovelfan]

I thought Brosnan didn't believe in having Bond smoke. Unless it's in Cuba, or something.

[DLibrasnow]

100% fantasy & speculation in this thread.

Unless anyone has something to prove it, this thread is awefully close to slander.
...just saying...

The owners of this site are taking a chance.

Dave (who owns this site) knows the rules.
They have a disclaimer on this site that (to a certain extent) protects it, but you are right that if the site does not make every effort to curtail libelous statements they are still open to prosecution.
As a site owner you just have to have faith that your moderating team are up to snuff and know libel when they see it. Spotting libel is one of the most important tasks in editing (which is one of the main task of a moderator).
I think CBn for the most part does a decent job and I know Dave has edited at least one libelous thread title in the past six months.

[spynovelfan]

I think it highly unlikely that anyone is going to sue CBN for comments made in this thread. But I do find this:

Pierce wouldn't play Toy Boy for her. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!

a bit unnecessary.

[DLibrasnow]

I think it highly unlikely that anyone is going to sue CBN for comments made in this thread.

True...but there's also a reason why CBn does not have any EON/Danjaq copyrighted images on its site.

Like I said, Dave knows the rules.