23 replies to this topic

[Q'ute]

i began reading all the Gardner novels (currently half way through the man from barbarossa)and would like to know what the Benson novels are like?
are they worth a read?
any opinions?

[Qwerty]

Suggest you check out previous threads in this forum; they are definitely worth a read.

[B007GLE]

I agree with Qwerty.

My favs are "Zero Minus Ten", "The Facts of Death" and "The Man With the Red Tattoo"

[David Schofield]

Suggest you check out previous threads in this forum; they are definitely worth a read.

What - the threads or the novels?

[Q'ute]

thanks i'll check out the other threads

[Qwerty]

Suggest you check out previous threads in this forum; they are definitely worth a read.

What - the threads or the novels?

Both in fact.

[Genrewriter]

The books are very cinematic in nature, whether this is good or bad is of course up to you. Enjoy. Welcome to the site.

[VodkaMartini]

I've read High Time to Kill, and that was really good.

[Double-Oh Agent]

The Benson novels are worth checking out. The best ones are Zero Minus Ten and High Time To Kill. Doubleshot is pretty good too.

[Qwerty]

The novelizations and short stories are also worth trying.

[Lazenby880]

Alternatively, you could read Jim's maulings/reviews of Raymond Benson's works: High Time To Kill, The Facts Of Death and Zero Minus Ten. I found them far more enjoyable and written with far greater finesse that what I have read of Mr Benson's output.

As to whether or not they are worth reading, it very much depends on what you are looking for. I have not read all of the Bensons and frankly do not want to. Personally, his novelisation of Die Another Day is the most serviceable, if only because the movie of the same name against which it can be compared is worse. The primary problem is (and this is to truncate a much wider point) that Mr Benson is a fan, not an author. The style of writing is pedestrian at best. Inventive ideas exist not. And a multitude of wholly inconsequential Fleming characters appear when his own creations would have (or at least could have) been far more interesting.

The extent to which the above is actually Mr Benson's fault is unclear, given that it appears the publishers had him in a straight-jacket. Nevertheless that is a discussion that has been detailed extensively elsewhere. I would say carry on with the Gardners and do try and track down Kingsley Amis' Colonel Sun. Hell of a read. And if you have not read all of Mr Fleming's works get them instead of the Bensons, they are infinitely more rewarding as a reading experience and in an entirely different league.

Edited by Lazenby880, 27 November 2005 - 04:17 PM.

[Loomis]

There's a lot of good stuff in the Benson oeuvre, and unfortunately a lot of bad stuff too, often within the same book ("Zero Minus Ten", my favourite of his novels, both hits heights and plumbs depths). But on the whole I much prefer the Bensonmeister's stuff, wildly uneven (and sometimes really pretty poor) though it is, to the uniform grey dullness of Gardner. When Benson's on form, he's truly not to be sneezed at.

But I'd say that all the non-Flemings are for fans/completists only.

[darthbond]

when i read them, i see Brosnan in my head. i can really see him doing those kinds of stuff. I like the benson books most of all. My fav are Never dream of Dying, Doubleshot, and TMWTRT.

darthbond

[Lazenby880]

But I'd say that all the non-Flemings are for fans/completists only.

All? Including your favourite, Colonel Sun?

As far as Benson v. Gardner is concerned, the latter was at least an actual writer who had written, like, actual novels before becoming a continuation author. Anyhoo, perhaps another discussion for another time.

[Loomis]

But I'd say that all the non-Flemings are for fans/completists only.

All? Including your favourite, Colonel Sun?

Yes. "Colonel Sun" is great stuff, and better than some - perhaps even most - of the Flemings. Then again, it doesn't really add anything to the literary Bond. By no means am I saying it isn't worth reading (it's by far the best of the continuation novels, and, of course, a very good piece of fiction in its own right), but it shouldn't be considered part of "the canon". That's what I mean by "for fans/completists only", although that said I guess that one would have to be a fan and/or completist to go out and buy all the Flemings.

As far as Benson v. Gardner is concerned, the latter was at least an actual writer who had written, like, actual novels before becoming a continuation author.

True. I still don't rate him, though. I prefer the enthusiastic amateur to the (apparently) unenthusiastic professional.

[Lazenby880]

By no means am I saying it isn't worth reading (it's by far the best of the continuation novels, and, of course, a very good piece of fiction in its own right), but it shouldn't be considered part of "the canon". That's what I mean by "for fans/completists only", although that said I guess that one would have to be a fan and/or completist to go out and buy all the Flemings.

That is interesting as I would have thought that Colonel Sun should be considered canonical, if only due the time it was written. The style and tone of the book are also very much in keeping with Fleming's development of the character during and after You Only Live Twice.

I do not mean to come across as some anti-Benson nutter, however I would argue that his books are especially 'for fans/completists only' in a way that Gardner's are not. Benson's books seem to have been written for fans, as opposed to the general reading audience, particularly with all the inclusion of characters from Bond past and in-references.

True. I still don't rate him, though. I prefer the enthusiastic amateur to the (apparently) unenthusiastic professional.

The Gardners that I have read are not perfect, and it is patently clear that he was growing increasingly tired of the character. Indeed, some serious question marks exist over whether he was at all enthusiastic in the first place. However, I would venture to suggest that one need not be a Bond fan to enjoy, say, Icebreaker or Licence Renewed, which is a huge plus. I would also dare to disagree with Kingsley Amis' comments regarding Gardner's Licence Renewed, Gardner did write some really quite exhilirating passages. And while his writing style was less florid than Fleming's and he did not attempt to catch the 'element of the bizarre' as Fleming did; when reading his books one does get the sense that the author is a professional. Then again, I have yet to read The Man From Barbarossa...

Benson's, conversely, do very often read like fan fiction. CBn houses authors who produce that to a far superior level.

Edited by Lazenby880, 28 November 2005 - 05:44 PM.

[David Schofield]

By no means am I saying it isn't worth reading (it's by far the best of the continuation novels, and, of course, a very good piece of fiction in its own right), but it shouldn't be considered part of "the canon". That's what I mean by "for fans/completists only", although that said I guess that one would have to be a fan and/or completist to go out and buy all the Flemings.

That is interesting as I would have thought that Colonel Sun should be considered canonical, if only due the time it was written. The style and tone of the book is also very much in keeping with Fleming's development of the character during and after You Only Live Twice.

I do not mean to come across as some anti-Benson nutter, however I would argue that his books are especially 'for fans/completists only' in a way that Gardner's are not. Benson's books seem to have been written for fans, as opposed to the general reading audience, particularly with all the inclusion of characters from Bond past and in-references.

True. I still don't rate him, though. I prefer the enthusiastic amateur to the (apparently) unenthusiastic professional.

The Gardners that I have read are not perfect, and it is patently clear that he was growing increasingly tired of the character. Indeed, some serious question marks exist over whether he was at all enthusiastic in the first place. However, I would venture to suggest that one need not be a Bond fan to enjoy, say, Icebreaker or Licence Renewed, which is a huge plus. I would also dare to disagree with Kingsley Amis' comments regarding Gardner's Licence Renewed, Gardner did write some really quite exhilirating passages. And while his writing style was less florid than Fleming's and he did not attempt to catch the 'element of the bizarre' as Fleming did; when reading his books one does get the sense that the author is a professional.

Benson's, conversely, do very often read like fan fiction. CBn houses authors who produce that to a far superior level.

Laz, agree on all the above, (except that Colonel Sun is canon - only Fleming is canon - though even then due to its timescale I can see you reasoning).

Benson's stuff IS so much fan fiction-like adoring/totally movie influenced that the best counter I can give is Chris Wood's book: The Spy Who Loved Me is a film script yet reads as a far better Bond book than anything Benson 9or Gardner for that matter) achieved.

[Loomis]

Benson's books seem to have been written for fans, as opposed to the general reading audience, particularly with all the inclusion of characters from Bond past and in-references.

Benson always gets stick for those in-jokes and references, but I remember reading something by Gardner a while back (must have been "Licence Renewed" or "For Special Services") and noticing - to my surprise, since Gardner never cops any flack in this regard - quite a few there, too. I guess Benson was so patently and proudly a Bond geek in addition to being an official continuation novelist that it's easy for people to point the finger at him and say that he was a fanboy who couldn't keep his fanboyishness under control. Not that people are wrong in saying that, necessarily, but it would seem that he's a much easier target than Gardner.

But can any continuation novelist really win, though? Gardner tends to get roasted for being too little like Fleming, while Benson cops it for being too much like Fleming (or rather, too much in love with the Fleming books).

Ah, sod 'em all - Fleming as "the canon", and all the rest for fanboys and completists, including Amis and Wood, bloody marvellous though they may be. Any objections, gentlemen?

I agree that there are people on CBn whose work is a lot more impressive than much (most?) of the stuff that has been published by Glidrose/IFP since Fleming passed away.

[Hitch]

If you mean Samantha Weinberg, I agree.

Messrs Benson and Gardner have their fans, as does Amis, but I can't help wincing when I see some of the barbs thrown at them.

[Loomis]

If you mean Samantha Weinberg, I agree.

Ms Weinberg.... and others.

Incidentally, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with doing something for fanboys or completists.

[Lazenby880]

[quote name='Loomis' date='28 November 2005 - 16:37']Benson always gets stick for those in-jokes and references, but I remember reading something by Gardner a while back (must have been "Licence Renewed" or "For Special Services") and noticing - to my surprise, since Gardner never cops any flack in this regard - quite a few there, too. I guess Benson was so patently and proudly a Bond geek in addition to being an official continuation novelist that it's easy for people to point the finger at him and say that he was a fanboy who couldn't keep his fanboyishness under control. Not that people are wrong in saying that, necessarily, but it would seem that he's a much easier target than Gardner.

Edited by Lazenby880, 28 November 2005 - 05:18 PM.

[jb21]

What do ya'll think of the benson novels? If one could be made into a movie which one would it be? My pick on that one would be the facts of death.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I like them a lot. He's got some really good plots. As for which one I'd like to see filmed my favorite of his is High Time To Kill but perhaps the most cinematic might be Zero Minus Ten.

[Qwerty]

Topics merged.