11 replies to this topic

[MarkTurner]

I am an A2 student studying Media Studies and for a percentage of the final grade i need to carry out some critical research, and for this critical research i need to carry out some primary research which brings me here. i was wondering if you lot out there would be able to help me.

Being the Bond fan i am i decided to choose the role of bond girls for my critical research topic and my exact question is "has the role of the 'Bond Girl' changed from 'Dr.No' to 'Die Another Day'?

So in a nutshell, what are your opinions on the 'Bond Girls'?, do you think their representation has changed since the beginning of Bond? And if you think their representation has changed, why?

Thanks everyone in advance for your cooperation, i look forward to reading your posts.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Well I'd say a Bond girl is someone who can handle herself in a tough situation but at heart is still the kind of girl next door we all liked in high school (Tracy, Amasova,, Domino, Paris, Pam to a certain degree and Natalya to a degree). She still needs rescued sometimes and she still falls head over heels for Bond (see above). That's just how it is. But that doesn't mean she has to be a whiney bimbo (Stacy Sutton, Kara to a certain degree), a bimbo period (Christmas Jones), or just plain stupid (Goodnight). By that same token, it can go too far in the opposite direction, she shouldn't be manly (Mayday) or an annoying ghetto bitch female Bond who can't act (Do I really need to spell that one out?). So essentially, to me, a Bond girl is a capable woman, able to keep her cool most of the time...but still a girl a heart. Oh, and beautiful doesn't hurt either.


Now, have they changed? Yes and no. They have certainly fluctuated between the descriptions over the years, we went from the more passive Sean Bond girls who would end up killing the villian or being a crucial part in Bond killing the villian (Honey and Tiffany are notable exceptions - they both ended up needing rescuing).

After LALD the Roger girls seemed a lot more active in the action, but also needed rescusing quite a bit more (Goodnight, Amasova, Octopussy). It was almost a compromise. Though he wasn't without his damsels in distress (Solitaire, Sutton).

Tim ended up with two damsels in distress and one hardcore CIA pilot who melted in his arms. So it more or less balanced out there too.

Starting with Pierce though, the Bond girls got much more active, either costarring in the movie with him (Natalya, Wai Lin, Jinx) or serving as the villian (Elektra). Natalya was far more of a classic Bond girl. Yes she was assertive and pushed Bond around a little bit but she softened as the film went on. She didn't have to do Bond's work for him. Then came Wai Lin - the female Bond, it worked then with her a Pierce showing great chemistry but coming off a bit too much like partners than lovers. However, it worked well enough...once. Jinx was just a mess...the attempted perfect Bond girl, not only Bonds equal but also a damsel in need of rescuing. Too bad she came off as annoying,pointless and a commercial ploy.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the forumlas have always been there and they switch off every few movies. So the Bond girl's don't necessarily change but are just modified a bit and rehashed each movie. It's important though to remember that a Bond girl is a Bond girl, not a seperate entity. They got away with the female Bond thing once in TND but in DAD it was just a disaster.

[killkenny kid]

Welcome Mark, let me think about this one.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Ah yes, welcome indeed sir. Hope we can help you out.

[Qwerty]

[Mods Note: Topic moved.]

[terminus]

I like the Bond girls to be integral to the story and be able to bring something to the plot - they're not their just to be window dressing.

You can't just have the girl being the villains girlfriend - she needs to be instrumental in helping Bond in some fashion.

She needs to have a mind of her own and a personality of her own and not just some super-model sex fantasy ...

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

You can't just have the girl being the villains girlfriend - she needs to be instrumental in helping Bond in some fashion.

Yeah the villians girlfriend bit has been done to death...TSWLM had the best twist on it.

She needs to have a mind of her own and a personality of her own and not just some super-model sex fantasy ...

Whoa whoa whoa, no need to rag on the super model sex fantasies!!



Agreed actually...my favorite Bond girls seem to be the ones that are well-developed and integral to the movie without trying to overshadow Bond himself (the whole female Bond thing). But hey, like I said...being beautiful is certainly an essential quality.


BTW, MarkTurner, by some chance you aren't actually a radical feminist using this as a secret study for an article where you talk about how sexist Bond fans are, are you? Just wondering.

[pgram]

I am studying right now, too. I just wish I had a topic as interesting as yours...

I 'd suggest, before discussing the changes in bond girls, first define what makes a bond girl.

I 'd say, they fall (schematically) into two categories: Bond girls and Bond women (this has to do with their attitudes and independance rather than age). And then, you can subdivide them to the ones initiated in the world of espionage, and to the ones who find themselves involved accidentally (for example Pussy and Anya on the one hand and Honey and Kara on the other).

Now, if you bare in mind that all Bond characters are (or at least, should be) archetypes, this is very much true for the girls as well. Bond films are a man's fantasies and men's fantasies are the same since the beginning of time. Bond girls are archetypes and as such they don't change (solitaire for example is the archetype of the virgin priestess, so often seen in Greek -or others- mythology). Bond girls are the girls in the paintings of st george, waiting to be resqued from the dragon by the hero, because men just want to be heroes.

Yet, the way in which they wait for the hero to save them changes. This a superficial change, that has to do with the times. Modern women are more independent in real life, and this changes the attitude of women in the films. But not profoundly. You always read the filmmakers claim that the new girl is equal to bond, but she never is. Because Bond films are men's films.

Bond is modern mythology. In fact, the mission of Bond in every film is to get the girl. Destroying the villain's plan is just a means to an end. And he succeeds because he is sexually superior to the villain. This is sometimes obvious (Domino chooses Bond over Largo), and sometimes just implied (Blofeld is scarred- just an indication of sexual inferiority, not to mention his devotion to his cat, other villains are crippled, as well). So, the girls role to the bond world is exactly the same with every man's world: they just make the world go round.

One last remark is that, although the filmmakers seemed to be aware of this mythologic aspect of Bond, they seem to make them more superficial nowadays. This, unfortunately, affects the girls as well; they are now just another ingredient in a formula which they don't seem to understand...

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

I 'd say, they fall (schematically) into two categories: Bond girls and Bond women (this has to do with their attitudes and independance rather than age). And then, you can subdivide them to the ones initiated in the world of espionage, and to the ones who find themselves involved accidentally (for example Pussy and Anya on the one hand and Honey and Kara on the other).

I'd still consider Pussy and Anya Bond girls, not Bond women though. I think the Bond women term is nothing more than the modern push for politcal correctness. My theory is kind of complex I know, but to me someone can be a woman, independent, intelligent but a Bond girl. Look at Anya specifically, she is the best agent the Russians have but she still melts for Bond. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now when you get into Stacy Sutton...who...does little more than scream her pretty little head off or Jinx who tries to be a seperate entity (the Bond woman thing), it just doesn't work.

I believe it was Carey Lowell who pioneered the Bond woman concept (correct me if I'm wrong). I find that ironic since she fits the perfect Bond girl concept to me. Sure she's tough and she's an independent but think how upset she gets when Bond sleeps with Lupe, she starts mocking her like a fifth grader. Tough on the outside...still a girl on the inside.

One last remark is that, although the filmmakers seemed to be aware of this mythologic aspect of Bond, they seem to make them more superficial nowadays. This, unfortunately, affects the girls as well; they are now just another ingredient in a formula which they don't seem to understand...

That's extremely well said.

[pgram]

Good points, Complimentsofsharky.
I just tried to categorise in general terms. Surely, you can't be precise about such categorisation; I just suggested it could be useful as a guideline- a tool for effective expression of ideas. I am sure everyone's approach to each girl would be different. For example, I still can't put Tanya (my favourite) into any categories (starts as rather naive, yet knows how to seduce when ordered, falls in love, is aware that there is an espionage plan, kills Klebb- just a mixture of everything...)

I am extreemely happy you agree on the last remark. I just wish EON agrees too...

[MarkTurner]

BTW, MarkTurner, by some chance you aren't actually a radical feminist using this as a secret study for an article where you talk about how sexist Bond fans are, are you? Just wondering.

Me a radical feminist...how'd you know? who told you

I've just checked the post and wanted to say thanks to everyone for reply (and so quickly too). All the points made are great, its given me loads to write about so fingers crossed for that 'A' grade at the end of it.

Just drifting from the topic slightly (please feel free to continue with the questions in my first post by all means [the're the ones which are probably more important]), i was just wondering "who is you favourite Bond Girl and why?" Is it the Girls narractive role which makes her memorable, her appearence on screen or something else?

Thanks again, great stuff

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Good points, Complimentsofsharky.
I just tried to categorise in general terms. Surely, you can't be precise about such categorisation; I just suggested it could be useful as a guideline- a tool for effective expression of ideas. I am sure everyone's approach to each girl would be different.

Right right just throwing my two cents in there. It is tough indeed, I don't think I could categorize Tanya either, I think she is very similar to Domino though. It's just hard to describe them.

It's happened before Mark...not feminists...but it's happended...we all got burned by some guy.

Edit: My favorites are Natalya, Tracy, Amasova and Tatiana. Natalya and Tracy share the top spot though.

Basically they fit my preferred category of a tough (read: badass), intelligent woman who is still a flirty, fun, girl next door kind of person at heart. And actually they remind me of a certain someone.

I love Amasova too just because as the female Bond concept goes...she was the best...she was the Russian's best, but didn't overshadow (or even try to overshadow) Bond.

I also like Tatiana a lot but that has more to do with her role in the plot of FRWL...the fact that she's really hot....and well....a choker and stockings...let's just say I have a thing.