51 replies to this topic

[Bon-san]

Not sure how they'll approach the presentation of it, but as to the cinematic effect, here's hoping they come up with something even remotely on the order of Olivier's torture of Hoffman in "Marathon Man".

[Tuxedo wearing Bond]

Unless a lot of the torture takes place off-camera or under the guise of shadows with only 007's screams filling the air.  That's the only other way they can pull it off if they plan to pull it directly from the book.  Nice idea, though.

Very nice idea. I myself don't exactly want the way Bond is tortured to be dropped, as it is an important moment for Bond. But EON have to consider what casual people may think of the scene. Imagine it being someones first Bond film with that scene in the film

I don't think that it's a daring choice to keep it *looks at dinovelvet*, but some "Casual Bond fans" (Who are mainly kids, and also haven't read a Bond novel) probably would be too fond of it.

[dinovelvet]

I thought I saw one of the bigwigs quoted somewhere as saying the scene would remain in the film.  Am I going mad?

Purvis and Wade said it would be :

http://www.mi6.co.uk...bond21&s=bond21

" In the interview, Purvis & Wade reveal that a lot of the elements from the Ian Fleming novel will be retained, including the torture sequence and the famous final line "the bitch is dead". On the subject of the torture scene, Robert Wade said,

[bryonalston]

Do you think that they'll keep the beating instrument as a carpet beater? I'm pretty sure a lot of movie-goers won't know what a carpet beater is or looks like. Is there any alternative instrument or way of torturing Bond that would be just as effective (BTW, I would like to see the sequence in the novel, but if they have to water it down for PG-13, then they should do whatever is necessary to keep it in the film.)

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

YOU CAN  THINK IT SHOULD BE IN,
OR BE A "BALL-ACHER!"
AS MUCH AS YOU WANT. IT WONT BE IN.

sssshh Use your indoor voice.

I'd like to see it in the movie and I think it will be but it will probably get toned down a bit and shortened to the point where Bond never loses enough consciousness to stop the one-liners.

'You're just jealous because I'm bigger than you Le Chiffre.' WHACK!


Bondian I hope this pain in your left testicle didn't interfere with any of its final four auditions. I really think it's the only way to go for a true return to Fleming.

[Monsieur B]

Oh, I forgot about the final line! Now that I think about it, that would make a pretty cold ending for a James Bond film, maybe even one to compete with OHMSS. Actually, probably not but it would be cold nonetheless. I can see the ending now...

Bond springs upright to the frightened cries of the patron as he waved a letter, "Monsieur Bond, monsieur Bond, wake up! There has been a terrible accident! Vite, venez avec moi!"
Bond's body immediately awakens to the news; he whips the sheets away and runs to the connecting door. Locked. He pushes the patron aside as he runs out into the hall and enters Vesper's bedroom; Vepser's pale face sticking out of the shrouding, white bedsheets. Bond drew back the sheet, his impassive face analyzing the Vesper's body; warm and full of colour, the night before now cadaverous and cold.
Bond set slowly stood up, clutching the bedside table to keep balance he notices a white-bottomed glass. The compassionate hand of the patron lightly touched his shoulder and Bond lifted his head, "Please notify the Commissaire, I'll be in my room if he wants me." And shuffled back into his room, he bent over and picked up the discarded letter on the floor, found the edge of his bed and sat down. He stared at the letter addressed "Pour Lui". He slowly opened it and read Vesper's final words (at this point, I can envision a voice-over of Vesper reading the letter).
Once Bond finished reading, he crumpled up the letter and threw it onto the floor. He stood up, wiped his eyes and cursed as he got dressed before heading downstairs to the confines of the phone booth to notify headquarters.
"This is 007 speaking. This is an open line. It's an emergency. Can you hear me? Pass this on at once. 3030 was a double, working for Redland." He paused "Yes, dammit, I said "was". The bitch is dead now."

*Fade to black and cue James Bond Theme (classic James Bond Theme, no techno remixes and the like)*

Best. Ending. Ever.

Edited by Monsieur B, 20 August 2005 - 02:20 AM.

[Monsieur B]

Concerning the torture scene, they have to leave it in but I agree with the idea of it being reduced to shadows and screams which can still be quite effective, if done right. But I have confidence in Casino Royale, it'll be the first decent Bond we've seen in a while (the music kills the whole Goldeneye experience for me ).

[bryonalston]

#39 Loeffelholz

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 04:51 AM

Great ideas. Sure beats the hell out of para-surfing...

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#40 Arrant

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 12:53 PM

I've just come back to this thread and discovered that what was meant to be a be, a little joke ( admittedly not a very good one) was posted by me in screaming caps. Sorry about that. It's because I copy and paste my stuff from "final draft" to spell check it, and I must have had it on Character setting or whatever, instead of general. I should have checked before posting.
Mea Culpa!

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#41 ComplimentsOfSharky

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 01:21 PM

It's ok, I think most of us found the caps funny anyway.

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#42 Pussfeller

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 01:49 PM

...Very nice idea. I myself don't exactly want the way Bond is tortured to be dropped, as it is an important moment for Bond. But EON have to consider what casual people may think of the scene. Imagine it being someones first Bond film with that scene in the film

I don't think that it's a daring choice to keep it *looks at dinovelvet*, but some "Casual Bond fans" (Who are mainly kids, and also haven't read a Bond novel) probably would be too fond of it.

I disagree. Did you see Sin City? I know it was R-rated, but there were a ton of teenagers in the theater. I think we're underestimating (or overestimating, depending on your viewpoint) the capacity of the average movie-goer to witness intense genital abuse. Compared to certain scenes in Sin City, the carpet beater scene would be positively vanilla.

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#43 cvheady007

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 02:56 PM

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#44 Monsieur B

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:16 PM

...Very nice idea. I myself don't exactly want the way Bond is tortured to be dropped, as it is an important moment for Bond. But EON have to consider what casual people may think of the scene. Imagine it being someones first Bond film with that scene in the film

I don't think that it's a daring choice to keep it *looks at dinovelvet*, but some "Casual Bond fans" (Who are mainly kids, and also haven't read a Bond novel) probably would be too fond of it.

I disagree. Did you see Sin City? I know it was R-rated, but there were a ton of teenagers in the theater. I think we're underestimating (or overestimating, depending on your viewpoint) the capacity of the average movie-goer to witness intense genital abuse. Compared to certain scenes in Sin City, the carpet beater scene would be positively vanilla.

Haha, yeah! That de-balling scene in Sin City was disturbing so I think that Bond getting flogged with a carpet beater would be pretty pale in comparison.

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#45 Loeffelholz

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 11:52 PM

The movie-going public is indeed becoming more difficult to shock. CR's torture sequence may be harsh by Bond Cinema standards, but it will be mild compared to other things depicted on the big screen nowadays.

Again, it is all about nuance, allusion and editing. Read what Le Chiffre says to Bond before he starts---if that dialogue is in the script, we could cut to a shot of the hallway outside the torture room, and just the sound of the THUDs (and Bond's cries of agony) would be very effective.

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#46 tdalton

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 12:02 AM

I think that there are multiple ways to approach the scene without compromising what Fleming wrote on the page. They could, as some have mentioned, show Le Chiffre explaining what he's going to do to Bond, and then maybe show a close up of Bond screaming in pain before cutting away to the empty hallway and listen to what's going on in there for a few seconds. Or, they could show what's happening in there, but obviously just keep the camera in places where nothing explicit is shown. Hopefully, whatever they do, they push the limits of the PG-13 rating.

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#47 bryonalston

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 04:20 AM

I think that back in the old days, a cutaway to the hallway with only the sounds of Bond screaming would have worked, however, it seems like the more we see onscreen, the better.

For example, one of the rules of horror is to never see the monster (supposedly using your imagination is much more terrifying.) However, some of the scariest films of all time are the ones that show the most (The Exorcist, The Thing, Evil Dead, etc..)

With movies nowadays pushing the limit, shock value is a must (Kill Bill REALLY set the bar high.) A very visual torture scene (sans pelvic nudity) probably wouldn't get an R rating and when compared to some other PG-13 films, won't get much flak (I believe the F-word is allowed to be said once or twice in a PG-13 film. Since that kind of language is never present in a Bond film, that should leave more elbow room for the torture scene.)

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#48 Monsieur B

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 04:46 AM

Perhaps to shoot it (obviously with excellent suspenseful music to set the scene, gradually rising with the scene as the suspense builds), start with a medium close-up (?) of Le Chiffre playing with the carpet beater, twirling it and whatnot while he speaks, the camera would be going back and forth between the med c-u of Le Chiffre talking and a c-u of Bond's face, sweating and all that; so we feel his nervousness.

Then a close-up on the carpet beater swinging forward, we hear the smack and cut to Bond's face as he cringes.

Close-up of Le Chiffre as he begins to interrogate Bond, back to Bond as he's rithing in agony.

Back to carpet beater as it swings again, smack!

Back to Bond's face.

Cut to Le Chiffre's face smiling as we hear more smacks and Bond's grunts each grunt getting louder.

Then cut to a shot of the hallway outside, it's dark and the light from inside strecthes up the wall. We hear one last smack and Bond lets out an earsplitting cry that would just not only scare you but make you feel extremely sympathetic towards him.

After the scream, slowly pan right and it shifts back to a med. c-u of Bond, dripping in sweat, head hanging low, breathing hard.

Cut to shot of the Bond's feet and we see blood beginning to gather beneath the chair (a small puddle).

Then cut to a close-up of Le Chiffre with a large grin strecthing along his face.

Obviously the interrogation might drag on a little longer and then SMERSH break in and save the day for a change. But that's how the whole hallway shot could be implemented, at least that's how I see it being used in my mind.

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#49 Loeffelholz

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 06:57 AM

A nice touch would be to have Le Chiffre sweating, as well...with the exertion of dealing out the WHACKS...

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#50 Monsieur B

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 04:12 PM

Actually, yeah, I never thought of that. That would make the scene a lot more effective.

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#51 callmejames

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 05:13 PM

Do you think that they'll keep the beating instrument as a carpet beater? I'm pretty sure a lot of movie-goers won't know what a carpet beater is or looks like. Is there any alternative instrument or way of torturing Bond that would be just as effective (BTW, I would like to see the sequence in the novel, but if they have to water it down for PG-13, then they should do whatever is necessary to keep it in the film.)

I think they'll drop the carpet beater.

And since it's Purvis and Wade Le Chiffre will mostly like attack Bond's testes with a laser orbitting the earth, built with microchips from a tech baron loyal to the British government, until revealed to be a double agent when he hijacks Bond's gadget that allows him to teleport from MI6 headquarters to France.

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#52 Loeffelholz

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 07:54 PM

That would certainly seem to be in line with current expectations...

LOL

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[Loeffelholz]

Great ideas. Sure beats the hell out of para-surfing...

[Arrant]

I've just come back to this thread and discovered that what was meant to be a be, a little joke ( admittedly not a very good one) was posted by me in screaming caps. Sorry about that. It's because I copy and paste my stuff from "final draft" to spell check it, and I must have had it on Character setting or whatever, instead of general. I should have checked before posting.
Mea Culpa!

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

It's ok, I think most of us found the caps funny anyway.

[Pussfeller]

...Very nice idea. I myself don't exactly want the way Bond is tortured to be dropped, as it is an important moment for Bond. But EON have to consider what casual people may think of the scene. Imagine it being someones first Bond film with that scene in the film

I don't think that it's a daring choice to keep it *looks at dinovelvet*, but some "Casual Bond fans" (Who are mainly kids, and also haven't read a Bond novel) probably would be too fond of it.

I disagree. Did you see Sin City? I know it was R-rated, but there were a ton of teenagers in the theater. I think we're underestimating (or overestimating, depending on your viewpoint) the capacity of the average movie-goer to witness intense genital abuse. Compared to certain scenes in Sin City, the carpet beater scene would be positively vanilla.

[cvheady007]

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[Monsieur B]

...Very nice idea. I myself don't exactly want the way Bond is tortured to be dropped, as it is an important moment for Bond. But EON have to consider what casual people may think of the scene. Imagine it being someones first Bond film with that scene in the film

I don't think that it's a daring choice to keep it *looks at dinovelvet*, but some "Casual Bond fans" (Who are mainly kids, and also haven't read a Bond novel) probably would be too fond of it.

I disagree. Did you see Sin City? I know it was R-rated, but there were a ton of teenagers in the theater. I think we're underestimating (or overestimating, depending on your viewpoint) the capacity of the average movie-goer to witness intense genital abuse. Compared to certain scenes in Sin City, the carpet beater scene would be positively vanilla.

Haha, yeah! That de-balling scene in Sin City was disturbing so I think that Bond getting flogged with a carpet beater would be pretty pale in comparison.

[Loeffelholz]

The movie-going public is indeed becoming more difficult to shock. CR's torture sequence may be harsh by Bond Cinema standards, but it will be mild compared to other things depicted on the big screen nowadays.

Again, it is all about nuance, allusion and editing. Read what Le Chiffre says to Bond before he starts---if that dialogue is in the script, we could cut to a shot of the hallway outside the torture room, and just the sound of the THUDs (and Bond's cries of agony) would be very effective.

[tdalton]

I think that there are multiple ways to approach the scene without compromising what Fleming wrote on the page. They could, as some have mentioned, show Le Chiffre explaining what he's going to do to Bond, and then maybe show a close up of Bond screaming in pain before cutting away to the empty hallway and listen to what's going on in there for a few seconds. Or, they could show what's happening in there, but obviously just keep the camera in places where nothing explicit is shown. Hopefully, whatever they do, they push the limits of the PG-13 rating.

[bryonalston]

I think that back in the old days, a cutaway to the hallway with only the sounds of Bond screaming would have worked, however, it seems like the more we see onscreen, the better.

For example, one of the rules of horror is to never see the monster (supposedly using your imagination is much more terrifying.) However, some of the scariest films of all time are the ones that show the most (The Exorcist, The Thing, Evil Dead, etc..)

With movies nowadays pushing the limit, shock value is a must (Kill Bill REALLY set the bar high.) A very visual torture scene (sans pelvic nudity) probably wouldn't get an R rating and when compared to some other PG-13 films, won't get much flak (I believe the F-word is allowed to be said once or twice in a PG-13 film. Since that kind of language is never present in a Bond film, that should leave more elbow room for the torture scene.)

[Monsieur B]

Perhaps to shoot it (obviously with excellent suspenseful music to set the scene, gradually rising with the scene as the suspense builds), start with a medium close-up (?) of Le Chiffre playing with the carpet beater, twirling it and whatnot while he speaks, the camera would be going back and forth between the med c-u of Le Chiffre talking and a c-u of Bond's face, sweating and all that; so we feel his nervousness.

Then a close-up on the carpet beater swinging forward, we hear the smack and cut to Bond's face as he cringes.

Close-up of Le Chiffre as he begins to interrogate Bond, back to Bond as he's rithing in agony.

Back to carpet beater as it swings again, smack!

Back to Bond's face.

Cut to Le Chiffre's face smiling as we hear more smacks and Bond's grunts each grunt getting louder.

Then cut to a shot of the hallway outside, it's dark and the light from inside strecthes up the wall. We hear one last smack and Bond lets out an earsplitting cry that would just not only scare you but make you feel extremely sympathetic towards him.

After the scream, slowly pan right and it shifts back to a med. c-u of Bond, dripping in sweat, head hanging low, breathing hard.

Cut to shot of the Bond's feet and we see blood beginning to gather beneath the chair (a small puddle).

Then cut to a close-up of Le Chiffre with a large grin strecthing along his face.

Obviously the interrogation might drag on a little longer and then SMERSH break in and save the day for a change. But that's how the whole hallway shot could be implemented, at least that's how I see it being used in my mind.

[Loeffelholz]

A nice touch would be to have Le Chiffre sweating, as well...with the exertion of dealing out the WHACKS...

[Monsieur B]

Actually, yeah, I never thought of that. That would make the scene a lot more effective.

[callmejames]

Do you think that they'll keep the beating instrument as a carpet beater? I'm pretty sure a lot of movie-goers won't know what a carpet beater is or looks like. Is there any alternative instrument or way of torturing Bond that would be just as effective (BTW, I would like to see the sequence in the novel, but if they have to water it down for PG-13, then they should do whatever is necessary to keep it in the film.)

I think they'll drop the carpet beater.

And since it's Purvis and Wade Le Chiffre will mostly like attack Bond's testes with a laser orbitting the earth, built with microchips from a tech baron loyal to the British government, until revealed to be a double agent when he hijacks Bond's gadget that allows him to teleport from MI6 headquarters to France.

[Loeffelholz]

That would certainly seem to be in line with current expectations...

LOL